Britbike forum Forums British Motorcycle specific Brands Triumph bulletin board LED headlight bulb test: Now with Pictures!

Hi folks. Has anyone tried the LED BPF headlight bulbs from "CLASSIC DYNAMO & REGULATOR CONVERSIONS"?

I've recently installed mine when my halogen BPF burned out, however I am finding the bright is very high which I am sure will fail the strict 2 yearly swiss MOT.

I'm busy troubleshooting with the manufacturer but was wondering if anyone else has any experience with these units? Ill be posting some pictures when I get a chance.

regards

BMF

I can only imagine what a mandatory Swiss 2 year inspection is like....gives me the shudders...even worse you could be in a Swiss German jurisdiction!

Hi Brett,


By "bright", I am guessing you mean the 'main beam'? But "high"? It is physically too high - you cannot just turn the headlamp assembly lower in the bolts at the sides of the shell, to aim the beam lower? Or the main-beam produces too much light - I would not have thought that was a problem, as modern vehicles use LED headlamp bulbs and you would only use main-beam when no oncoming vehicles?

Regards,

Well formed question. I was wondering the same. I use the H4 bulbs from the same supplier and they are just a miracle. At least half the current and twice the light. How cool is that?

But no one here is going to check lumens on headlights.

However, it's the beam spread on the H4's that really makes them different, I think. Going down the street at night, when you hit the high beams it literally lights up the entire neighborhood in front of you.

When you have nocturnal animals darting about at night, this is a blessing.

I've been wanting to get more info on the BPF bulbs as it means you don't have to buy a new reflector unit to use them. I've been concerned that they wouldn't be bright ENOUGH.

Cheers,
Bill

Why all this talk of headlight beam brightness? " a gentleman is never seen motoring about at night" Joe Lucas.

Of course he's not seen, he's had an electrical failure.

Not sure about Swiss regs, the UK regs got left behind by LEDs, lamp output used to be limited by wattage , 60 max IIRC, but now LEDs give more Lumens per Watt, so even relatively low power 40 W LEDs will outshine a 60 W halogen, whether the beam pattern is correct is another matter all together, LED light is very directional and may not spread correctly if used with a non matching reflector/ lens.
I cant see how a vehicle with only one lamp would fail a test on over output so long as it dips correctly to the right for Europe and the beam is not aimed too high it should pass.
I have just given up on my BPF lamp, fitted a Wipac that takes a QH 60/ 55, a much brighter lamp. the Wipac has a shallow reflector , making for an easy install if space is limited.

BrettF, Please do say what bike this is on? I would like to try one if it fits the reflector of a '69 Lucas headlight.
Even though I'd like more light, I have to admit I also wish there was at least a bit of brightness control here. No vehicle inspection requirements here, and brightness is quite out of control along with many other annoying practices. Last I heard, permission has been given to motorcyclist to run with High beams on. That is sure to save a bunch of lives and also make favorable public impression!

Hi Folks, this was on a 69 TR6.

Gavin - just to clarify the bright was high in height not in power output. Apologies for the lack of clarity in my description.

With the old halogen BPF from walrige I could the correct high/low spacing (bright beam top at the height of the bulb on wall and dim a couple of inches below that at 7 or 8 meters - I forget exactly which) with the LED I got the dim height fine but bright was up very high. I'll get to take some pictures on Tuesday.

I was hoping that the LED would work as I seem to change headlights every year and with Halogens that gets expensive.... Its the vibration I guess.

On my BMW's (which use the H4 bulbs in their standard Bosch reflectors) I've been running a 6000K, 2500 lumen Cyron ABH4K-A6K with great success. These bulbs are VERY bright and the are much more noticeable even in daytime riding. The total load on Hi beam is around 45W, which is far less than the standard equipment 60W bulb. If you've converted your reflector to H4, then these will snap right into place.

Amazon Link

Here's What to Look for When Buying LED Bulbs
There are a lot of LED automobile bulbs being sold, but very few are good for motorcycle use. What you want is one constructed with the LED arrayed all around on a central post, either circular or triangular. There are some with the LEDs arrayed on a flat surface as per This Example. This type flat post design only allows 40% of the reflector to be illuminated, placing less light on the road at night, and making your motorcycle much LESS visible during the day.

When the LEDs are arrayed on a central post (as per the Cyron example), the lamp achieves 100% reflector illumination, which places more light on the road.

Want to improve my 72 which will include a proper shell in place of the flat-back, so clearance should not be a problem. Is there any issue with positive ground? Riding at night with the BPF is almost a non option.

Hi Brett,


So what happens if you simply tip the headlamp downwards, so the "bright" is in the 'correct' position? The "dim" will be lower but will that not be a good thing, you are less likely to dazzle the drivers of oncoming vehicles?

Or does it matter that "bright" is "high", as you will only use it when there are no oncoming vehicles for the drivers to be dazzled?

Regards,

Good info here,

Stuart, I could change the aim but that would require that I swap to a "working old fashioned" bulb for the two yearly inspection - as they check both the bright and dim beams. I might have to settle for this if my BPF Halogens burn out every 1000 km. At 20$ per pop its not cheap. Alternatively I might finally start looking into changing to a decent bulb like an H4

Apparently a lot of the custom 'harleyish" bikes in Switzerland have several parts changed every two years to pass the exam and then changed back afterwards. ANY aftermarket parts have to be homologated to pass the exam (within practical reason). Aftermarket windshield, exhaust, shock absorbers etc. If the manufacturer has not done it you can do it. For a few thousand $$$ of course....

Hi Brett,

'Fraid I still don't understand what the problem is.


Why? You've already posted that the CRDC LED headlamp bulb has "bright" - main beam - and "dim" - dip beam. Any headlamp bulb has main 'n' dip?


Well, yeah ... and ...? The British annual safety inspection checks main and dip - that they work and main is not "high" - pointing above the height of the headlamp on the vehicle. Canada doesn't have a periodic vehicle safety inspection? Any Canadian vehicle safety inspection doesn't check headlamp main, dip and aim?

On your TR6 - btw, when you asked about importing it into Switzerland from Canada in October 2016, it was a '67 - whether it's a TR6C with a 5-3/4" headlamp or one of the other variants with a 7" headlamp, the headlamp itself is mounted in the front of a metal shell. The metal shell is then mounted by a bolt each side to a bracket, each bracket is mounted around a fork leg, between the top and bottom yokes.

If the main beam is too "high", unless the bolts through the brackets into the shell are very tight, simply pushing on the lower front edge of the headlamp will tilt the whole assembly of headlamp and shell downwards; if the bolts are too tight, loosen them; tilt the headlamp until the "bright" - main - beam is not "high".


This does not make any sense. There isn't any correlation between the "height" of dip and the "height" of main.

The bulb fits in the reflector. The lens/reflector is set so main beam does not shine higher than the height of the bulb, dip shines at some arbitrary level below that. There cannot be any specific Swiss spacing between main and dip because there is not, and never has been, any Swiss-specific headlamp or bulb.

Where you might be confused is, when an after-market LED headlamp 'bulb' is fitted into a lens/reflector intended for an incandescent bulb, aiui the dip pattern of a LED headlamp 'bulb' can be different from the dip pattern of incandescent bulb. If the Swiss test has some sort of problem with this, the you might need to source an incandescent bulb for the test. But, given the length of time the guy that runs CRDC has been commissioning and selling LED headlamp 'bulbs', I'll be surprised if you're the first to take one through a Swiss safety inspection.

So, if there's something I've missed, can you explain what the problem is you're having with the CRDC LED headlamp 'bulb'?

Btw, in posting about BPF bulbs, one place an eagle-eyed Swiss inspector might pick up on is that '69 or '67 Triumphs imported new into Switzerland never had BPF bulbs/lenses/reflectors; in line with bikes to other European countries, they had right-hand dipping P45t bulbs/lenses/reflectors. P45t bulbs are still easy, new lenses/reflectors (almost?) impossible.

Hth.

Regards,

i'm fascinated.

here in ohio the standard collision is with whitetailed deer. i came close yesterday to one on my Commando, and today ran off several bucks in velvet. all within a mile from the house. it's a daily occurrence, mostly at dusk or sunrise, unless it's autumn.

we also get striped skunks, possums, eastern cottontails, and the very rare bobcats. the red foxes and coyotes are too smart to stay in the road-- they skip over about 50 feet into the hayfields and then watch you pass by from concealment. if you stop and shine a flashlight into the hay you can catch them at it.

the turkey vultures come closer than anything, but they're generally headed up.

the worst animals are the loose cattle and the sometimes-loose draft horses. the horses are usually so happy to be loose that they trot down the middle of the road to wherever they last remember something interesting. the cows just stand on the side and stare at you.

my neighbor up the road has a cow dog that would be delighted to herd me somewhere and lies in wait for me to ride close enough to try. but since he's intelligent, he's the least of my problems, because he always sees that i'm too fast and contents himself with a quick intercept and full stop a bit short of calamity.

what do you run into in hawaii?

Deer and pigs, mostly. We're not really a very diversified ecology here. The occasional mongoose(very small) and those pesky Cattle Egrets. I've almost nailed them a few times and because they are a large bird, they could do some damage. But those aren't nocturnal. It's the deer, for the most part. I had one jump across the road in front of my bike recently and it really woke me up. They're Asian Axis deer and they're not very big, but a 150 lb buck can do some real damage.

People here have been killed hitting pigs at only 50mph. Like hitting a brick wall.

I aim for chickens. Disease ridden vermin....

I have a pesky Chihuahua in my neighborhood which pound for pound is the most aggressive little beasty I've ever seen. I call him La pequino diablo. I think he would shred a tire if he ever caught me!

I really don't like riding at night anymore. Here, you could run off the road because of a deer or pig and no one would find you for a very long time.

There are horses, cattle and elk, which for the most part are fenced. Up the mountain, there are no fences, so going up there sometimes means getting stuck waiting for a herd to mosey along. Sheep and goats, too.

Cheers,
Bill

how did you get cattle egrets? i'm guessing an introduction?

they're from africa. came into south america with a hurricane around 1900, i think, and then migrated up through central america to the great plains. common bird in texas and oklahoma now.

up north it's even worse:

You don't need a halogen H4 to see those birds. They spook on the side of the road and sometimes fly right at you. At that point, you're trying to be part of the gas tank....

Island ecologies; everything is introduced. Egrets introduced to control insects on cattle. Now they've learned to follow mowers where they can get free sushi off the ground. Smart birds.

Funny story about the mongoose. Introduced as a method to control rats. It didn't work. They control birds better. Mongoose is on the targeted invasive species list as many species of birds here are almost extinct because of them.

Deer also. You can take two a day without tags. Open season all year. Very good eating as they are fed with Kula's finest produce. We lose 1 million dollars of produce a year to them.

Hmmmm a ride up to Ulapalakua deli sounds good right now. They serve venison burgers!

Cheers,
Bill

Hi Stuart, I wonder if what he meant was the high beam is too high when low beam is aimed correctly.

CLASSIC DYNAMO & REGULATOR CONVERSIONS touches on this. They suggest they had a problem with that & the new version of the bulb is supposed to have addressed this problem. The new version is supposed to be correct high beam aim when low beam is correct. The old version had high beam "up in the trees".

I'm considering getting a new version LED from them. Looks like about $50 US with shipping. Not cheap so I need to do some research. The web site seems vague on fitment.

Stuart, I know from prior posts you know a lot about bulbs. They sell a BPF. Looks like that was in my '73 Tiger from new?? My reflector is original from new.

But what about the dip? Some sellers say BPF right dip or left dip.

When they say RIGHT HAND DIP is that for USA or UK. Is right hand dip the same as right dip?

I've looked at various web sites & get mixed messages so what is the truth?

The bulb I have currently installed, when high beam is straight ahead the low beam is biased to the right. Sold in USA as 414. The bulb is unbranded Chinese made.

Classic Dynamo sells BPF P36d, or APF P30d.

What is an American Pre Focus?

The photos on web site not clear enough to see base on APF. Web search shows all sorts of bulbs for APF but didn't see any with my bulb's base.

What Classic Dynamo LED bulb is for my USA bike?

Classic Dynamo is closed for holiday until Sept. 6 so I can't contact them directly at this time.

With winter approaching I'll be doing more night riding so this is on my mind again.

Thank you, Don

Hi Folks, I've double checked with them and it is a new type bulb that I have.
Don, your are right the high beam seems very high when the low is properly aimed.
I'm a bit swamped at the moment (no pun on our poor friends in Houston), when I can get pictures I'll try to explain it better.
Thanks Brett.

Hi Don,


That's what I've been wondering too. The Triumph workshop manuals only detail British regs. (obviously 50-odd years old) and explain how to set the main beam to meet them. If the Swiss vehicle regs. have something dip-specific that applied half-a-century ago, that's what we need to know.

Alternatively, with the CRDC BPF bulb, if it's set 'correctly' for main beam, and dip then lights up the road just in front of the front wheel, that's a CRDC problem? Brett's posted, "it is a new type bulb that I have" and "the high beam seems very high when the low is properly aimed" but you posted, "[CRDC] suggest they had a problem with that & the new version of the bulb is supposed to have addressed this problem" ...


Flattery will get you (almost) everywhere ...


On http://www.dynamoregulatorconversions.com/online-shop-for-led-bulbs-and-light-boards-etc.php, "All our LED bulbs fit into original holders with no need for clumsy adapters."


Dunno about LED but that isn't the case with original BPF bulbs and lens/reflectors. The US and GB both got the same downward- (aka "vertical"-) dipping (directly in front of the front wheel) lens - the lens has an area between a horizontal line across the middle and one line extending downwards from the centre each side to about the four o' clock and eight o'clock positions (afaik, all other markets that drive on the left got these lenses too).

If a lens is right- or left-dip only, the area with a line extending downwards from the centre is on one side only (the opposite side from the dip direction).

For whatever reason, certainly Triumphs and BSA's going to European countries got the completely-different P45t bulb and lens/reflector. Whether this was right-hand dip only, I don't know as the Lucas part number is not the same as the right-hand dip P45t lens/reflector shown in '78-on parts books.


I always refer to dip as the side of the road you drive on, as side dip is (should be) always to that side - right-hand dip/side in the US, left-hand dip/side in GB.


Take a look at http://www.mgaroadster.co.uk/Technical_Information/LucasBulbs.pdf; published 1983 so not screwed up by "Genuine Lucas aka Wassell".

The bulb listed in the '73 Triumph parts book is a 370 (same as '71, '72 and before '78), Curiously, Triumph listed it as "45/35W" (Watts main/dip) whereas that Lucas book lists it as "45/40".

Pre-'71, the bulb was a 446, listed as 50/40 and - in the Triumph books - as "vertical dip".


APF is an entirely different bulb/base. The number in "P36d" and "P30d" is a diameter of the metal mounting part (CRDC calls it the "cap") in millimetres. So the APF mounting is 6 mm. smaller than BPF.


BPF aka P36d.

Hth.

Regards,

Hi Stuart, No flattery was intended... I have gaps in knowledge & need to fill them. I learned if someone knows more than you on a subject you should listen to them. That's an important function of these groups.

I think to a small degree I'm starting to get a handle on the bulbs.

Let's continue. No APF is on chart. No P30d base is on chart. By the way the base is known as a "cap" on the chart.

The BPF P36d base came in several bulb types. From my personal experience on my bike the bulb type makes a huge difference on how the light shines.

My reflector looks symmetrical. I spent some time at a bike meet looking at lens'. What a mix there is. We'll let that be for now & just talk bulbs.

Thanks for posting the chart. I was familiar with it, but it leads to questions on my part. Looking at diagram 8 my 414 bulbs look like that with the filament shade in front of low beam.

I had for sometime a 515 bulb. Was a made in Japan bulb that was in a Lucas 515 box. That bulb biased low beam to left of bike. While the 414 biased right. Visually the shade is partially offset opposite side of filament. Web search confirms this. As you stated 414 is right dip for driving on right side of road.

Now, the diagram 9 shows what is sold in USA as 370 (sometimes sold here as 303). 303 is not on chart. The 370 is now sold here as 48/48 while chart shows 45/40. On the 370 bulbs we get in USA the low beam filament goes long ways in bulb, not crossways. I guess this is what is meant as duplo?? So visually, chart does not accurately depict actual filament positon.

Here's what I actually have in my hands. The Phillips & Stanly are burned out, but being a collector I kept then for just incase I needed a sample.

According to my log book I purchased a Philips bulb in about 1976 the printing on base shows 12741/99 DUPLO 12V 45/40W. Made in Holland. The low beam filament goes long ways. I don't know how well this worked with my reflector/lens. Got this at Triumph dealer.

About 1977 or '78 I got a Lucas 415. From same dealer. This time bulb in box was actually Stanley Japan. Printed on base Stanley 12V54/40W Japan.NT

Fast forward to last 4 years. I got bulb sold as 303,370,414. Printing on bulb shows onlu 12V48/48w. That worked very bad in my bike. Light looked bright, but beam very scattered with no focused beam whatsoever. Impossible to ride at night no matter how you tried to aim light. Very unsafe. Visually both filaments are about 1/4" further forward from base almost to very tip of glass. Shade is horizontal. My hunch is the forward position of filaments makes the focus wrong for my reflector/lens.

Then I got modern 414 printed on bulb 12V 50/40W H11. This bulb works well, but I actually preferred the 515. Again 414 gives safe riding at night (for vintage bike anyway). These are not very durable, so I always carry a spare. Some not well made with glass & filament crooked. Indeed does not shine properly like that.

Visually 414, 415 both filaments are very close to same distance from base, both crossways about 7/8" from base ring. Holding notch in base upwards shade on low beam is biased to right on 414. 415 the left. Shade is vertical.

The odd ball is the Philips. On it the high beam filament is very close to 415/415, but low beam is long ways starting even with high beam filament & goes forward. Shade is horizontal. Still the low beam is much closer to the base than the 48/48.

Scares me that BrettF cannot aim properly with the new version LED bulb.

Said all that to say I don't know what the "new" LED will do with my bike. Can the LED even be positioned to focus both beams simultaneously in my headlamp?

No new lens are sold with my pattern. I'll ask Brett what he has.

Anyway Stuart, thank you very much for the help. I know much more now.
Don

Hi BrettF, Exactly what bike do you have? What are all the numbers/letters on your lamp lens?

I can't post photos here or I'd show you mine.
Thank you, Don

Hi Don,

Mine is a 67 with a 71 engine but dressed up as the average (69) but its a bitsa so parts from all over - Ill post pictures of the lens along with the light pattern - it + reflector would have come from walridge, not original by any means.

Hi Brett, I looked on the Walridge site. The glass in their photo looks different from mine.

I see this glass on many bikes that needed reflector replacement. Quizzing owners, none actually ever ride at night. They don't know what bulb they use.

So I don't know. I always wanted to do this, but haven't yet. What if you ground bulb with jumper wire & hold reflector in hand. At night move bulb around in reflector & see how beam changes.

From the different bulbs I've tried on my reflector moving filament 1/4" makes a huge difference. Looks like LED array is pretty far out on bulb. Moving it out may change things. Of course you'd have to figure out a spacer & retainer to hold it there.

On a side note. Suppose you just accept it how it is & only use 1 beam. Either high or low. If you aim the best beam how do you feel light works. Can you see well at night? Yet not blind oncoming motorists.
Don