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Thread Like Summary
raygun, Stein Roger
Total Likes: 13
Original Post (Thread Starter)
#874260 03/12/2022 11:51 AM
by raygun
raygun
Hi I have bought a 3 peice bearing for the timeing side on my t140e I have noticed the washer that goes behind the bearing has a champher on one side ,so which way ROUND does the washer go.Hope this makes sense thanks.
Liked Replies
#874373 Mar 13th a 07:34 PM
by Tigernuts
Tigernuts
Originally Posted by Stein Roger
Originally Posted by L.A.B.
[quote=reverb]...
The lip of the inner race would normally go against the crankshaft and the washer is fitted from the outside after the crank has been inserted into the bearing, however, to do so on an engine that had a timing-side ball bearing apparently requires the opening in the crankcase to be enlarged. There's a factory(?) drawing somewhere that shows this but I can't find it at the moment.
I slip the ring in before I fit the bearing into the case. The spool goes on the shaft. When you introduce the crank into the bearing it may take some fiddling to avoid trapping the ring but not much.
I can't see how fitting the bearing the other way would work, fitting the spool to the shaft from the outside and entering it into the ring would be difficult. Fitting the bearing assembly to the shaft and then the crank and bearing into the cases might work, but why would you.
I've never seen cases with a bigger aperture to fit the ring from the outside, but it's a good idea.

PS. I'm trying to recall if my Harris Bonnie was fitted with a roller bearing, but I don't think it was. It's the only Harris engine I've opened completely. I do remember that I fitted it with a roller bearing afterwards. Can't remember if the aperture was bigger, it was a long time ago...

PPS. Why don't the Norton guys use these bearings but insists on letting the crankshaft sail between single lip roller bearings?

SR

You HAVE to ft these NUP 306 bearing as you have described - there's not really any choice, though I have known people leave the 'washer' out presumably imagining it to be an optional extra!

Also, as far as I know (and that isn't as far as Harris T140s, so I could be mistaken), no T140 engines were made with the timing side bearing housing enlarged so that the 'washer' can be fitted from the timing cover side.
2 members like this
#874261 Mar 12th a 01:44 PM
by L.A.B.
L.A.B.
https://www.bearingrevolution.co.uk...-bore-_-steel-cage-_-premium-range-32746
Chamfer on the outside according to the bearing drawing and any bearing markings would normally be on the outside face.
[Linked Image from bearingrevolution.co.uk]
1 member likes this
#874266 Mar 12th a 03:16 PM
by henryanthony
henryanthony
I will firstly admit to limited knowledge of bearing design and fitting but have good understanding and experience reading mechanical and architectural drawings. To me, the drawing does not show the washer. It does show chamfers on the inner and outer diameters of the bearing.

What am I missing? Are you saying that the chamfer of the washer should mate against the chamfer on the outside diameter of the bearing?
1 member likes this
#874271 Mar 12th a 03:38 PM
by L.A.B.
L.A.B.
A better drawing (this time with the washer on the left)
https://www.farrellbearings.co.nz/s...+Roller+Bearing+Metric/NUP306E-TVP2.html
[Linked Image from images.zeald.com]
1 member likes this
#874278 Mar 12th a 05:11 PM
by TinkererToo
TinkererToo
Yes, as there is always a slight radius shaft to side cheek.
1 member likes this
#874325 Mar 13th a 09:39 AM
by L.A.B.
L.A.B.
Originally Posted by reverb
...the chamfer goes to the outside of the RH case. You will see the name etc on it. Why you all are saying the other way around?

I don't think anyone is?

The lip of the inner race would normally go against the crankshaft and the washer is fitted from the outside after the crank has been inserted into the bearing, however, to do so on an engine that had a timing-side ball bearing apparently requires the opening in the crankcase to be enlarged. There's a factory(?) drawing somewhere that shows this but I can't find it at the moment.
1 member likes this
#874322 Mar 13th a 08:44 AM
by TinkererToo
TinkererToo
The bearing can be fitted two ways and still be correct, either with the "washer" fitted next to the crank or next to the crankcase. In either, the chamfer goes to the outside of the bearing. Personally, I fit these bearings with the "washer" next to the case/crank pinion side, it allows easier assembly of the cases. Whatever, raygun will be correct wit the chamfer pointing to the pinion.
1 member likes this
#874315 Mar 13th a 04:26 AM
by reverb
reverb
...the chamfer goes to the outside of the RH case. You will see the name etc on it. Why you all are saying the other way around?
1 member likes this
#874333 Mar 13th a 01:50 PM
by kommando
kommando
Originally Posted by Stein Roger
PPS. Why don't the Norton guys use these bearings but insists on letting the crankshaft sail between single lip roller bearings?

SR

I will when there is a problem, currently my MK2a has never had the bottom end apart as there are no issues.
1 member likes this
#874374 Mar 13th a 07:37 PM
by Stein Roger
Stein Roger
Originally Posted by kommando
Originally Posted by Stein Roger
PPS. Why don't the Norton guys use these bearings but insists on letting the crankshaft sail between single lip roller bearings?

SR

I will when there is a problem, currently my MK2a has never had the bottom end apart as there are no issues.
Sure. I didn't mean to indicate the set up is a problem, just that some seem to struggle with it. The Commando engines I've done haven't required any shimming though.

SR
1 member likes this
#874371 Mar 13th a 07:28 PM
by Tigernuts
Tigernuts
Originally Posted by TinkererToo
The bearing can be fitted two ways and still be correct, either with the "washer" fitted next to the crank or next to the crankcase. In either, the chamfer goes to the outside of the bearing. Personally, I fit these bearings with the "washer" next to the case/crank pinion side, it allows easier assembly of the cases. Whatever, raygun will be correct wit the chamfer pointing to the pinion.

No it can't! The permanent lip has to go against the crank web. If you tried to fit it the other way round, you'd have insurmountable difficulties!
1 member likes this
#874370 Mar 13th a 07:25 PM
by Tigernuts
Tigernuts
Originally Posted by raygun
So the chamfer faces the crankshaft pinion thanks

When fitted, the 'washer' and the permanent ID section on the right (as shown on the later drawing, or on the left on the first drawing) should be a mirror image of each other. All the 'washer' does is enable an otherwise impossible roller bearing, with lipped inner & outer races, to be made.
1 member likes this
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