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Allan G, Beach, BSA_WM20, Gordon Gray, KevRasen, kommando, NickL, Noe
Total Likes: 19
Original Post (Thread Starter)
#867900 01/02/2022 7:11 PM
by Stevie D
Stevie D
installing a tri spark ign. in my 65 L/R. I installed the rotor into the points case and checked the air gap. The instructions call for a 2mm gap. Mine has none. It sits flush with the inner ledge surface. It is seated all the way in the taper like it should be. Is it common to have to space the stator plate out? I have never come across this issue before myself.
Liked Replies
#868797 Jan 12th a 12:02 AM
by NickL
NickL
I have accepted now that the global comment that 'It's always the black box'...............
A similar amount of time around this gear has taught me that.

No matter how 'idiot proof' you make stuff, there is always a better or more determined idiot!
3 members like this
#868723 Jan 11th a 04:16 AM
by NickL
NickL
Hmm, that would take about 220 deg+ if it was lead/tin or 250+ if aluminium based.
I could see bad/dry joints vibrating apart but if the solder was melting then i would think
the engine would be rather stuffed by that stage.
The only other way i could see that happening is if the rotor was sensing exhaust gas flow........
2 members like this
#868792 Jan 11th a 10:14 PM
by John Healy
John Healy
You guys are way too kind and must not have spent a much time in the retail end of the British motorcycle industry. Ocasionally over the past 50 odd years doing this stuff I dared to think I had seen everything, and heard every story. The latest was from a dealer who last week asked me if Triumph ever put valve guide seals between the tip of the guide and the head of the valve? That's right in the ports. This was on a Trident. His customer said, "he did the work to the manual." This one raised the bar for the "I think I have seen everything" ledger.

Knowing Norman Hyde probable heard a lot of things about what people have done to Tridents. I shared with him an experience where a customer put the 4 head bolt washers between the head gasket and the cylinder head on the 4 outside cylinder bolts. And it ran!!!! It didn't leak compression!

On one of his American adventures playing tennis at one of three Real Tennis clubs in the US he found his way to Boston. During his visit he asked me if I still had that cylinder head. I don't think he believed me. With head in hand he explained, "Now I know why you people say, If some is good, more is better."

I bet the rest of the motorcycle looked as bad as the solder joints and board. Honest, I timed it by the book!

I have nearly 50,000 electronic ignitions out in the field over the past 35 plus years. Do you think I have heard some stories?
2 members like this
#869008 Jan 14th a 07:05 AM
by DavidP
DavidP
Originally Posted by NickL
the stressing of
the surface mounted components,
I remember having huge problems with gear when aluminium based soldering
became law, some industries were granted exemption such as aerospace.
Unleaded solder was a PITA for many manufacturers large and small.
We have a winner! I never trusted surface mount, can't recall all the times I've had to reheat surface-mount solder joints to solve mystery malfunctions. You put the board into a wave-solder machine or quickly sweep a wide tip past multiple pins and expect perfect solder joints, AIN'T gonna happen!
And, don't get me started on lead-free solder. One can heat the joint until the trace lifts off the board and the solder still doesn't flow properly!
2 members like this
#867975 Jan 3rd a 01:26 PM
by Blown Income
Blown Income
I've ran into this situation on a Norton Commando to which I made up a 2mm spacer to fit between the case and EI unit and worked like a charm.
1 member likes this
#868046 Jan 3rd a 11:17 PM
by bill50cal
bill50cal
Originally Posted by R Moulding
Yes, plus having paid for the most expensive EI on the planet then paid the machinist to make it fit properly. I would have been even more pissed off each of the four times one of his units failed. Hopefully Steve has now learnt the definition of reliable!

I only put up with 3 failures. I did get a little wiser when the first one failed and carried a spare unit. the third one did not last as long as a rear tire.
1 member likes this
#868305 Jan 6th a 02:17 PM
by Beach
Beach
Originally Posted by ziggy53
I bought a triSpark and a Wassell Vape three years ago for a tuned tbolt project. Was really inclined to use the TriSpark, now I'm unsure. Are they really that failure prone? I'm guessing that all makes have a failure rate, I'd love to see what others think.
Yes, they are,(in my experience). Had 3 that failed in my 1974 Commando. When I bought 1st ignition I also bought Tri Spark coils, wires and 3 phase alternator with regulator. First failure I rode about 100 miles and ran fine, shut bike off for maybe 3 hours and it wouldn't start. Found a Pazon, installed and ran it until they checked my trispark and sent me another. This one failed in less than 20 miles and just went out while running. Third one failed too(I actually carried a spare one, cheap through Steve Kelly). Sold spare and new extra one for $100, installed Pazon and didn't look back. All but the first were the new improved models. The company was good about covering failures but if I can't trust it I didn't want it. Just my experience.
1 member likes this
#868173 Jan 4th a 11:17 PM
by MikeG
MikeG
I've had one of these on my Norton for 5 or 6 years and thousands of miles. Everything is in the points cavity. Never so much as a pop, fart or hic-up in all that time.

https://www.powerarc.com/paproducts.html#cycle
1 member likes this
#868337 Jan 6th a 08:50 PM
by Beach
Beach
Maybe it will work better on BSA. Thinking maybe the points area will run cooler, but I actually ran my second one without a points cover. I can't understand how there are guys running them without a single problem and there are lots of people experiencing them same as me.
1 member likes this
#868345 Jan 6th a 10:53 PM
by Shane in Oz
Shane in Oz
FWIW, I've had a Tri-Spark Classic Twin unit in my Firebird for a good 10 years. It replaced a B-B Micro-Digital unit which fried itself.

I've had the original style B-B units in other twins, with no problems, and the Pazon which was in the B44 when I bought it has been reliable as well - touch wood.
1 member likes this
#868404 Jan 7th a 10:13 PM
by Shane in Oz
Shane in Oz
Originally Posted by Allan G
One of the reasons why I bought mine for the Thunderbolt, your firebird runs absolutly spot on!
Thanks for the kind words. With any luck you will be re-acquainted with it in South Australia next year.
1 member likes this
#868535 Jan 9th a 04:29 AM
by R Moulding
R Moulding
Alan,since you have it sitting there why not try it? You will without doubt love the way it makes the bike run. You may be one of the lucky ones!
1 member likes this
#868630 Jan 10th a 12:16 AM
by Tridentman
Tridentman
In the example I quoted most of the problems were in encapsulation and connections--not in the components themselves.
1 member likes this
#869108 Jan 15th a 09:12 AM
by BSA_WM20
BSA_WM20
Originally Posted by quinten
Lead is a neurotoxin .... with documented toxicity going back over a thousand years .
but , guess what ? , Lead poisoning is preventable.

Lead blood levels considered normal in the 70s can knock up to five points off a child's IQ.
a Child's dumbed down IQ translates into a dumbed down adult with a dumbed down earning potential .
nevermind .
...lets have more dumbness please , if it makes soldering easier .

Yes it is toxic
And gues what ever single metal is toxic as are their sulfates , sulfides, oxides, chlorides etc etc etc.

However lead is not soulable in a human digestive tract
The expirment of injecteg a sinker then recovering it & weighing it had been done for ages till ethics committees banned it .
Hunter have been using lead shot amost from the invention of gunpowder particularly for shooting game bird which are then eaten, usually with some of the shot remaining in the bird because it is near impossible to get it all out .
Lead fumes can also not get from your lungs to your blood stream in any form
Lead oxides are a different matter
However while they are a big problem for a developing brain, they post little to no problems to adults
The prime medical problem ( in both cases ) is the Pb binds onto heamobloben which renders them incapable of transporting oxygen.
And these compromised heamoglobens remain in the blood stream till the kidneys finally idntify them as being bad and send then to the baldder for removal .
So in adults, severe lead contamination leads to anemia .
And it is excreated through your urine unlike some thing like Zinc which accumulated in your kidneys as does calcium for that matter and we are all familiar with calcium posionong , commonly called kidney stones .

I used reduced heamogloben & lead in urine as screening tests for the 500 lead workers I monitored monthy for 4 years .
When they got too leaded they got sent to either the steel scrap yard or the aluminium scrap yard or the battery factory .
None of the battery makers ever picked up enough lead to require detoxing or even requiring a full blood lead determination.
All of the contaminated workers came from the lead scrap yard or the furnace mouth where they were exposed to oxides , usually from bad hygine so they injested dust from ther clothing or hands.

The whole lead hysteria stems from the fuel crisis of the 70's when Europe wanted to use poor quality crude because Arab crude prices had gone through the roof & supply was squeezed
However the crude made bad petrol, much of which could not be atomised or burned in an IC engine and thus the exhaust containe very high levels of unburned hydrocarbons ( also quite toxic )
So the answer was to put an after burner , called a catalytic converter in your echaust to durn the petrol that your engine can not burn but you still paid good money for.
Now Joe public was never going to wear that so the spin doctors turned an economic problem into a health problem
The of course you bring kids into it to get the irratinal emotions kicking in.

The fact that it was really a cast of Alaskin elephant repellant got overlooked.
The prime source of injestable lead is and always has been minning followed by paint followed by cheap white glaze ( includes spark plugs ) and of course cosmetics but from memory lead was removed from face powder long before it was removed from petrol

Now removing lead oxides from paint was a good idea but of course when you find a good thing then stick to it and every palce where any kind of lead was used became public enemy No 1 regardless of weather that lead could ever become injestable or not.
And the oxides on the top of lead pots is a coumpound oxide contain both lead & tin & some of the other alloying elements so the lead is bound tight and not available to the body even if you ate it.

As for dropping 5 points, you really mean scoreing 5 points less in a test that scored me 20 points lower because on my dyslexia .
As for making dumb adults you can't go past the www where millions of supposedly well educated high scoring IQ people slavishly follow blithering idiots whu usually have no idea what they are posting about called "social influencers "

And time & time again then biggest influiencer on the earning capacity of a person is directly linked to their parents .
OR to put it another way the best way to get rich is to have rich parents .

Geting back to solder
Zero data to show any heath problems related to the use of lead tin solder & I would hazard a guess thatthe fluxes were a bigger health problem than the chemstry of the solder .
Bannng lead colder is a stupid as banning leaded bronzes or brasses which I have no doubt is the next on the hit list .
1 member likes this
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