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Thread Like Summary
BSA_WM20, Chris the camper., Falcon_52, Gordon Gray, Hillbilly bike, Howard Inough, Magnetoman, MikeG, NickL
Total Likes: 49
Original Post (Thread Starter)
#863870 11/22/2021 9:14 PM
by MikeG
MikeG
I have to put tires on a Norton that has rim locks on the back. I have never put them back in on any of my bikes due to them being a big PITA but may have to this time. Any secrets to the task that make it easier?
Liked Replies
#864384 Nov 27th a 07:29 PM
by John Healy
John Healy
I wouldn't let this chap near one of my wheels. The video was too disturbing to watch the whole thing!
3 members like this
#864450 Nov 28th a 08:10 AM
by triton thrasher
triton thrasher
Originally Posted by DavidP
Have any of you produced a video or comprehensive instruction, without vague terminology, about the correct way to mount a tire?
I thought not.


We should be grateful to everyone who hasn’t produced a video like that.
3 members like this
#864090 Nov 24th a 04:21 PM
by Howard Inough
Howard Inough
I had a front row seat to Gordon's front tire failure. After offering the obligatory "tablespoon in my tank bag" guffaw, we all lent a hand to change out the offending inner tube.
My observation was a man usually as cool as James Bond, was shaken, not stirred.
2 members like this
#864275 Nov 26th a 02:01 PM
by Lannis
Lannis
Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
Well, this pretty much ended up going nowhere.

Gordon

Well, I'd disagree with that a bit.

Six posts were just sort of back and forth silliness.
Four posts were requests for clarification.

So ten posts total weren't too much practical use.

BUT!

Three posts referred to "how to do it" with wooden spreaders or installing the rim locks first.
Ten posts were long term riders sharing their experience as to why they don't think rim locks are much use, and they don't use them.
Eight posts were long term riders sharing their experience as to why they are useful and why they use them.

Twenty-one posts sharing experience as to how, why, or why not seems pretty useful to me!

Lannis
2 members like this
#864401 Nov 27th a 09:50 PM
by Magnetoman
Magnetoman
Originally Posted by Chris the camper.
Unbelievable,
I only skipped around through it, but I found that video interesting on multiple levels. First, it's not the least bit unbelievable. Rather, it's an excellent example of the quality of advice given in many youtube videos.

Then, there's the technical. Very early he advises, with complete assurance and professionalism, that you should leave some air in so you won't pinch the tube. Then, ten minutes later he says, with the same assurance and professionalism, that the tube "probably" has been pinched (nb. note his use of the passive voice, as if in some way unrelated to him the tube managed to get itself pinched), but that we shouldn't worry about that detail because he's going to use a new tube. Then, after another fifteen minutes, he has the tire back on the rim and expresses the "hope" that "we" haven't pinched the tube, simultaneously crossing his fingers while at the same time generously sharing credit with the audience for any pinching that might have taken place

Then there's the fact the video is on a channel where the description of it says "In this video we work alongside Dave Mitchell (from Michell's Classics) as he goes about changing a tyre on a classic motorcycle," which means Dave actually is a "professional" in the motorcycle industry, and that both he and the owner of the youtube channel independently thought that video was a good example of how to change a tire. Whether or not you would be too embarrassed to appear in a video as, um, interesting as this one, kudos to Dave for not being.

Finally, the video received 34 comments, most of which express thanks for the great information that was presented.
2 members like this
#864691 Nov 30th a 12:00 AM
by John Healy
John Healy
Quote
And, you can use it for a trash can
Or you can use a metal trash can. Conveniently, the one I have used for some 50 years spends it idle time as an actaul trash can. It is easy to find when you need it. It seems perfect for both of its callings.

Any form of hose can be slit, and formed over the rim. It protects the wheel and adds a bit of class to the shop.

With the exception of an old rock hard tire (MM we have been there), on a vintage tire you should only require a pair of 8" tire irons. In nearly ALL cases, needing any thing longer and you are doing something wrong. My favorite irons 8" made by Dowidat in Germany. They have one modifacation. The ribs along the edge at the spoon end are smoothed over to prevent them from damaging the rim.

Dowidat 8" Tire Irons

Because our rims DO NOT include a safety bead, breaking the bead should not be a problem. Let out ALL of the air out, and remove the nuts from the tube stem and rim locks. Push the rim locks into the rim to free them from the bead. Typically your heel pushing on the side of the tire while on the floor will free the bead. Remember push in the rim locks as you go around.

Lubrication is essential to success. It can be used removing and installing the tire. My favorite is a product called P-80 made in New Jersey. And don't forget to liberarly lubricate the tube with talcum powder. It helps keeping the tube from folding over itself, and clumsy use of tire irons from puncturing the tube.

The key to all this is coming to the understanding of the ability to move the tires circumference revelent to the rim so you can slip the bead over the edge of the rim.

The area of the rim where the spoke nipple reside is what is called a Drop Center. If you move the edge of the tire's bead into the drop center the opposite bead is moved almost to the edge of the rim. It is easy from here on. This is where you want to start with spoon end of your 8" iron. Then with the flat end, take small bites a few inches from where you started, Then work your way around the rim rotate the iron to allow it to slip out of between the bead and the rim. Remember samll bites!

Find a place to put the bead into the drop center without rim locks look for the area opposite the tube stem. With rim locks you have to find a spot between the rim locks to push the bead into the drop center.

Replacing the tire you work backwards from the point where the bead is in the drop center and work your way around the rim taking small bites.

Needed: Metal trash can, two 8" tire irons, Rubber lube (P-80) and some talc (baby powder).
(I have to quitas it is near 7pm and the UPS truck is about to arrive. Wrote this while working - it might need some editing)
John
2 members like this
#863942 Nov 23rd a 12:37 PM
by BSA_WM20
BSA_WM20
I don't get the spreader bit if we are talking about the thing that goses inside the tyre & pulls down on the case to stop it moving there is no big trick.
Do the rim lock up tight before mounting the tyre
Mount the tyre as normal
Remove the valve to blast the tyre up onto the rim
Put the valve back in & inflate the tyre about 1/2 pressure
Push the rim lock up then allow it to come down, tighten the nut then fully inflate the tyre
Listen for HISS indicating you have pinched th tube so now have to do it all over again.
1 member likes this
#863892 Nov 23rd a 12:09 AM
by KC in S.B.
KC in S.B.
I found that a “correct” small block of wood as a spreader was the answer for me. Wished I’d hit on it before!
My $.02: Why use’em? I didn’t previously, until I had a very low rear tire, in residential streets, and rolled the tire off the rim. When that steel wheel hit the pavement, it was like Ice. Talking to an old timer, he said “what if you are at speed”? Then the flat tire worms it’s way on/off the rim, big control problem. Along with the “Ice”, and the possibility of it getting off completely to the side and fouling the rear wheel…. All this happening quickly, and faced with no prior practice. Now I’m not a Brit on the freeway Guy here but figured I’d give’m a try, and struggled until finding a bit of help. BTW, They will help prevent low pressure valve stem damage becoming a flat also. Lots of reasons.
Now,…. For some reason, all this logic has not forced me to do the front. Don’t see them there either.
1 member likes this
#863888 Nov 22nd a 11:41 PM
by Mark Z
Mark Z
Why "may have to this time"?
1 member likes this
#863948 Nov 23rd a 01:56 PM
by Gordon Gray
Gordon Gray
Mike. I think it ( thank you again Mr Healy) has something to do with rim design. Modern bikes rims are different from ours.

Avon’s are a pain for me no matter what and I believe they stay on our old rims better IMO. I usually have a problem getting them to seat. K70s go on almost by hand.

Gordon
1 member likes this
#864063 Nov 24th a 12:16 PM
by MikeG
MikeG
Originally Posted by DavidP
[quote=KC in S.B.]

I've found that they should be replaced every couple of years. The last set I bought was from Tusk, much better than an old pair of Dunlop with the rubber curling.

Another reason why I've never messed with them. Every one I've ever taken out looked like it was more likely to cause a flat rather than rescue you from one.
1 member likes this
#864004 Nov 23rd a 10:57 PM
by Gordon Gray
Gordon Gray
This is all it takes to ruin your day. That little black tack. Hidden in the tread of my front tire. If you've ridden with me you know one of the first things I do before a ride is check my tire pressures. I do not remember if I added air to the tire that morning but just before lunch/noon I noticed the front tire going down. Long story short........I had a front tire come completely off the rim....while I was still moving. (witnessed by someone on this site)

That is the actual tack that started it all.

My experience was very similar to what KC wrote about at the beginning of this thread. Except that I could see it all happening. So you're going to have a hard time convincing me there's no way a tire can slip on a rim.

Gordon
Attached Images
1 member likes this
#864100 Nov 24th a 06:13 PM
by Gordon Gray
Gordon Gray
Originally Posted by KC in S.B.
….snip…Then the flat tire worms it’s way on/off the rim, big control problem. Along with the “Ice”, and the possibility of it getting off completely to the side and fouling the rear wheel…. All this happening quickly…..snip….

Imagine watching your front tire wadding up against the forks and then making it pass only to do it again….and again…and again. I just knew I was going over the handlebars. I’d been slowing down all the time but still was moving pretty good. Rough shoulder on my side of the road but on the other side a 2’ bank that looked to be the softest landing spot. I’m not sure how much luck was involved but I made it to that bank and laid it over. Bike in ditch and me on the bank. Remember Rowan and Martins Laugh In……the guy on the tricycle at the stop light?

No name man was behind me and thought I was having a heart attack. When he got to me I was getting up telling him I never even had a chance to pull the clutch in…I was to busy hanging on. He grabs the bike and starts to roll it to a better spot and says “Damn the tire is off the rim!”. Try that at home in your garage to see how much fun that is.

I was blessed to be surrounded by good friends. I carry tools and spares and there’s probably not an easier bike to fix a flat on than a unit single. But I was a mess……and they finally told me to back off and they’d get it. I took a short walk and tried to recover. Shook……yep. I do remember at one point during all this thinking how stupid it was for my armored riding pants to be rolled up and riding on the seat behind me.

This happened at Mike Gs OSMR ( the op on this thread) next year I rode that bike back up there ( 1200+ round trip). I think Mike was the first to notice I had added a rim lock to the front.

Truth be known it was probably more the tires fault as anything but I’ll save that for another story.

Gordon……WWJHD
1 member likes this
#864112 Nov 24th a 07:31 PM
by MikeG
MikeG
Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
Originally Posted by KC in S.B.
….snip…Then the flat tire worms it’s way on/off the rim, big control problem. Along with the “Ice”, and the possibility of it getting off completely to the side and fouling the rear wheel…. All this happening quickly…..snip….

Imagine watching your front tire wadding up against the forks and then making it pass only to do it again….and again…and again. I just knew I was going over the handlebars. I’d been slowing down all the time but still was moving pretty good. Rough shoulder on my side of the road but on the other side a 2’ bank that looked to be the softest landing spot. I’m not sure how much luck was involved but I made it to that bank and laid it over. Bike in ditch and me on the bank. Remember Rowan and Martins Laugh In……the guy on the tricycle at the stop light?

No name man was behind me and thought I was having a heart attack. When he got to me I was getting up telling him I never even had a chance to pull the clutch in…I was to busy hanging on. He grabs the bike and starts to roll it to a better spot and says “Damn the tire is off the rim!”. Try that at home in your garage to see how much fun that is.

I was blessed to be surrounded by good friends. I carry tools and spares and there’s probably not an easier bike to fix a flat on than a unit single. But I was a mess……and they finally told me to back off and they’d get it. I took a short walk and tried to recover. Shook……yep. I do remember at one point during all this thinking how stupid it was for my armored riding pants to be rolled up and riding on the seat behind me.

This happened at Mike Gs OSMR ( the op on this thread) next year I rode that bike back up there ( 1200+ round trip). I think Mike was the first to notice I had added a rim lock to the front.

Truth be known it was probably more the tires fault as anything but I’ll save that for another story.

Gordon……WWJHD

And we all still had a good time at the lunch stop! On a serious note though, Most every wheel that I've discarded the rim locks from were rears not fronts. Even this Norton I have to do only has them on the back which has a Dunlop K71. The front has an Avon Speedmaster ribbed tire and the locks are gone.
1 member likes this
#864123 Nov 24th a 08:40 PM
by Hugh Jörgen
Hugh Jörgen
K.C. was speaking of a low rear tire.
1 member likes this
#864119 Nov 24th a 08:09 PM
by Hugh Jörgen
Hugh Jörgen
Quote
?????????????????
https://www.britbike.com/forums/ubb...ar-wheel-anti-rotation-cleats#Post818316
1 member likes this
#864157 Nov 25th a 04:11 AM
by linker48x
linker48x
I am one of the “don’t use rim locks on my Brit bikes” school, but I’ve raced motocross for 50 years, and every dirt bike I raced had them because of 11 to 13 psi tires, which makes them necessary there. Almost all those dirt bikes had “modern” rubber covered rim locks that work quite well and don’t puncture a tube unless you really get it in wrong. The original British ones I’ve seen have rivets through the center and steel on the backside and can puncture or pinch a tube much more readily. If you are going to use rimlocks you might think about changing over to the more modern design. Just sayin’.
1 member likes this
#864192 Nov 25th a 02:28 PM
by No Name Man
No Name Man
I can verify that that tack was almost pristine but I suspect the poster was only expressing surprise at how well it stood up to the treatment.
My rim lock story is: first few times I had to fix a flat rear on the Tbolt I put them back in. I pinch the tube about half the time. The last time I was struggling so bad with the second lock I threw it across the barn and put the tire on with only one in. Bad idea. First time I needed to balance a rear. Probably some of you remember me doing this at Windy's campground. Next tire change I took the other one out and haven't missed them. Carriage bolts in the holes.
I did experience a flat at speed on the rear once (when the locks were in). Never on a front. I too believe the modern tire will prevent tube creep as long as there's air in it. I'll probably continue to gamble and hope
Gordon, I think this is a record. My longest post
1 member likes this
#864193 Nov 25th a 02:35 PM
by Hillbilly bike
Hillbilly bike
Rim locks ......I don't use them with tube tires... I used to do a lot of drag racing years ago with a 650 Triumph street bike,4.25 K81 tire at normal pressures used then...Tire never slipped...Never had a blow out at speed so no opinion on that..
I know guys that won't ride unless they have full protective gear, helmet, armored gloves,jacket, pants, boots...
1 member likes this
#864252 Nov 26th a 03:33 AM
by DavidP
DavidP
Yes, modern tires, run at maybe 4psi higher pressure than was originally specified, will probably stay on the rim very well.
It's that one time when you haven't ridden in a month and forget to check tire pressures....
1 member likes this
#864266 Nov 26th a 12:25 PM
by Gordon Gray
Gordon Gray
Well, this pretty much ended up going nowhere. Mike asked for tips for installing rim locks. KC mentioned a "wood spreader" but without further details. My only contribution was the brand of locks I use. I was interested because I hoped someone would teach me something new.

Honestly for those of us that use them I don't "think" we see them as much trouble but that seems to be the reoccurring theme for not using them. Too much trouble to install so the heck with them.......they're not needed on a road bike anyway.

KC did mention preventing "tire creep" as being one of the benefits of using them. (I didn't) KC and I shared our stories of tires coming off a rim. I'm not sure what caused KC's but mine was because I lost air pressure.

I do believe that if air pressure is maintained, modern tires on our older style rims will stay put. What I was trying to get across is.........there are reasons you can lose air pressure and when and if you do the lock "could" come into play.

Wonder what would happen if Andy launched with 0 pressure in that drag slick? Think he'd try it for us and report back?

So far we didn't help Mike one bit ........You Tube will probably be his best bet which is kinda sad. Maybe the guy he's doing the work for can be talked out of putting them back in?

You guys be safe out there.......stay healthy,

Gordon
1 member likes this
#864280 Nov 26th a 02:45 PM
by MikeG
MikeG
I did get some help out of it Gordon. At the very least I know that the new rim locks available are compatible with the older rims I'm dealing with so I don't have the excuse of the old ones being too crappy to use.
1 member likes this
#864284 Nov 26th a 04:16 PM
by Falcon_52
Falcon_52
MikeG - this video may be helpful to you. I probably watched this 4 or 5 times before attempting to remount my rear Triumph tire (with double rim locks/security bolts). He makes it look so easy since he is a professional but I found it informative - and I was able to get that tire back on with minimal swearing. smile

Tire change video

Noel
1 member likes this
#864339 Nov 27th a 07:18 AM
by DavidP
DavidP
Originally Posted by Chris the camper.
All he was asking for was advice on how to fit a tyre with rim locks. I agree, it looks like that the majority of members who agreed rim locks were a good idea couldn't explain why.
My advice, fit the locks under the rim strip and push them up into the tire upon installation. Tighten the nuts just snug before inflating the tube, then tighten completely once the bead is seated.
I'm satisfied that Triumph, et al, would not have spent the money for the locks unless they thought they were a useful safety feature. I've never had a tire come off the rim, never experienced a sudden deflation, but I suspect that it will happen the day after I discard my rim locks.
1 member likes this
#864367 Nov 27th a 03:52 PM
by Gordon Gray
Gordon Gray
This one is a bit painful to watch............................I'll have to admit that I have made some of these same mistakes. But he gets it done.



Gordon
1 member likes this
#864490 Nov 28th a 05:12 PM
by MikeG
MikeG
Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
I wonder how many of you do it exactly like the Dunlop guy in the first video?

I wish I had a stand to work off of but I'm on the floor like the other videos. tire change
.
I'm looking for some type of stand that might fit in my space......Not much chance of me having something I can stand upright and do the work......just not enough room in my shop.

Can anybody recommend a stand like the one in the Dunlop video or a shorter version?

Gordon

Gordon-years ago I built this as a one time use thing. But it's held together all this time so I'll just keep on with it till it's ready for the wood stove. made from scrap lumber and my B&D workmate bench. I'm willing to bet you already have the work bench, and maybe even access to scrap building materials grin

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]


[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
1 member likes this
#864509 Nov 28th a 06:25 PM
by MikeG
MikeG
Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
Looking at yours if I added a spindle for the hub..........oh yes.
Gordon

A spindle is on my list of things to do. I also lay an old towel or T shirt on it if its a painted rim like on my Suzuki.

Mag Man! Those bead buddys are now on my list as well!
1 member likes this
#864528 Nov 28th a 08:22 PM
by Magnetoman
Magnetoman
Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
I HAD to have a set of those BEAD BUSTERS........those long irons.
Since this thread is about rim locks I should have said that the Vincent wheel in my previous post has rim locks, but they weren't an issue when I removed the tire. The hard rubber of that ancient tire definitely was an issue, but not the rim locks.
1 member likes this
#864527 Nov 28th a 08:21 PM
by Stuart Kirk
Stuart Kirk
Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
.......I'm looking for some type of stand that might fit in my space.........
A 30 gallon oil drum works well. Split a length of fuel line and glue it to the rim to protect your spokes if you like. It's especially good for wheels where the axle is a fuss to remove.
And, you can use it for a trash can, or store 5 gallon cans of race gas in it or turn it upside down and it becomes a stool......
I set a trash bucket in the top of mine, and store the race gas inside underneath the bucket.
1 member likes this
#864170 Nov 25th a 06:42 AM
by Chris the camper.
Chris the camper.
Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
Wow I’m trying to decided which reply to answer first.

1. Tack is in good shape.

New tire and the (black) tack fit perfectly in between the treads. I have no clue how long it had been in the tire.

2. KC had a rear come off the rim (but of course that can never happen)

Mine was the front. (that couldn’t have happened because racers don’t use rim locks)

3. I was riding with a group of forum members (this forum). One was directly behind me and saw it all unfold. The others turned around and found us on the side of the road. I’m known for getting my stories mixed up (MM’s don’t let facts get in the way of a good story) but this one had witnesses. My only injury was when I cut my hand on that tack while feeling around on the inside of the tire. A quick look at the outside didn’t reveal anything. Might have been the blood that made them finally (I'm pretty hardheaded) push me out of the way. Might have been this happened right BEFORE lunch and I really wasn't performing like the brightest bulb.

Gordon

PS........oops, mis credited the facts thing. NYBSAGUY admitted to that one.

My point about very high powered road racers and road bikes on modern tyres are that the pressures are approx. 50% higher than tyres used in the 70's so there is no slip betweenrim and tyre. So the chances of a 45 bhp road bike using modern tyres causing tyre slip are highly unlikely assuming the correct pressures are used. That tack must be an exttremely heavy duty variety - ther'se not a mark on it!
1 member likes this
#864599 Nov 29th a 09:44 AM
by BSA_WM20
BSA_WM20
Originally Posted by Chris the camper.
My point about very high powered road racers and road bikes on modern tyres are that the pressures are approx. 50% higher than tyres used in the 70's so there is no slip betweenrim and tyre. So the chances of a 45 bhp road bike using modern tyres causing tyre slip are highly unlikely assuming the correct pressures are used. That tack must be an exttremely heavy duty variety - ther'se not a mark on it!

When I first got the M 20 back in 91 it was he first rigid girder I had ever owned
So the first port of call was other vintage riders and they told me just about every combination of pressures you could imagine.
Now in those days I rode all day every day and had developed a liking for really hard tyres.
Well that made the bike unrideable above 15mph
So I did what is easy to do without thinking, looked up the 1942 riders hand book & used the recommended pressures.
Well that was interesting and over the next few years I would probably ripped the valve out of at least a dozen or more tubes and that was with rim locks on a 13Hp motorcycle, although the engine breaking was the culprit, not the excessive power at the back wheel.
Finally I gave up and used the recommended pressures from the tyre makers, no where near the 35-40 psi I liked but that was the last valve I ripped out.
So now I run 20-22 front and 2 more in the rear .
On the subject of tyre changing, I use a Breezer tyre tool and have done so since 1982 and never nicked a tube since then.
At one time a fellow clubbie took me home with the wheel in his chair & could not believe his eyes when I had the tyre off tube replaced and cover back on in less than 10 minutes.
He borrowed my Breezer and took it to the CSIRO where he worked and had a few run up, about 4" longer and with a slight bend to make it easier to use ( You know how achademics can just not leave any tool design alone ) .
Now I was sure that I had posted about them before on this forum but I did not find it in my search so here is a link to to a web page with dimensons if you want to make one.
The slightly longer one with a bend allowed the user to lay it flatter and use the wheel axel as a fulcrum point in place of whacking with a mallet.
How to make a breezer
1 member likes this
#864600 Nov 29th a 11:11 AM
by BSA_WM20
BSA_WM20
As for the video, there is not a more difficult way to do the job than kneeling on the floor with the wheel sitting on a tyre of the same size.
Note the two real prefessionals had the wheel at waist height with some sort of dummy axel through the hub
A block of 2x4 with a coach bolt through it then clamped in a vice works really well, and while MM's natty little stand will still have you kneeling at least the entire tyre & rim is clean of the ground,
next when you put the tyre lube on the tyre have a think about which bit of the tyre is going to slide over the rim.
That is where the lube needs to be not all over the sidewalls
And FWIW I like to slide the rim inside the inside the tyre all the way round then mount the bead from the outside in not trying to lift the bead over the rim lock from the opposite side which is a pretty sure way of pinching the tube.
So when working this way the tyre lube goes on the edge of the bead and about 1/2" up the inside
1 member likes this
#864627 Nov 29th a 03:41 PM
by Magnetoman
Magnetoman
Originally Posted by Chris the camper.
You don't need bead-breakers for tyres on tubed rims of the sizes fitted to classic bikes.
That certainly has not been my experience.
1 member likes this
#864682 Nov 29th a 10:29 PM
by Lannis
Lannis
Originally Posted by Chris the camper.
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Originally Posted by Chris the camper.
I'm assuming the tyres are not over 10 years old.
Me too.

I've never needed tyre breakers on a e.g tubed 100/90 tyre fitted to a spoked rim. Support the wheel on wooden blocks, deflate the tube and then tread on the tyre wall with your booted feet. No problem.

What Chris hasn't told us is that he is 6'6" tall, wears size 16 boots, and weighs 390 pounds..... laughing

Lannis
1 member likes this
#864724 Nov 30th a 02:56 AM
by BSA_WM20
BSA_WM20
Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
Trevor, I've had these several years now and they have seen a lot of use ( mostly shouldered alloy) .......they look like a copy...of your Beezer Tool....done in plastic. There are some small differences but still very close. They do a good job and I like using them.

Looks like the company is out of business and is for sale?????

https://www.stubbytiretools.com/

Gordon

Well FWIW Gordon, back in the day I was told by a tyre shop they came out to solve the problem of phunamatic motorcycle tyre changing machines eating up cast alloy rims.
So they became a standard tool for motorcycle shops till heads designed not to damage the very soft rims on cast wheels became availible for tyre changing machines.
Now as for tyre changine machines, HF make a mini tyre changer.
I bought one for doing 4" rims on mower front wheels ( not particularly successful )
However the machine does have a good bead breaker and can be used clamped in a standard bebch vise , if you want to get up off the floor .
And yes I can see the idea behind the modification to the removal section of the tool.
There was a sign with a quotation attributed to some one I forgot on the wall of Victor Engineering Supply company when I worked there that went something like."No design , simple in principle that can not be made better by making it more complicated in practice."
Their big seller was muffler covers for ships.
Made from brass insertion , asbestos impregnated heavy canvas and stuffed with hot cracked asbestos.
When I think back on some of the places I have worked & some of the jobs I have done I am amazed that I have lived long enough to be posting this .
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#864725 Nov 30th a 03:03 AM
by BSA_WM20
BSA_WM20
[quote]The area of the rim where the spoke nipple reside is what is called a Drop Center. If you move the edge of the tire's bead into the drop center the opposite bead is moved almost to the edge of the rim. It is easy from here on.[/quote

We who speak proper English call it the well

This is what the pros were doing with their bellies & elbows in the good videos and why the "classic" mechanic was having such a tough time .
You really can not control the position of the beadin the well with the tyre sitting on another one of the same size .
The only time I find that convienent is when trying to seat a tubeless during inflation.
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#864780 Nov 30th a 07:52 PM
by MikeG
MikeG
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3028099074...p;mktype=pla&googleloc=9002343&p

I bought one of these years ago for my BMW K100 tires. Worked quite well but not wide enough for my Suzuki tires so I just bought a LARGE C clamp for that instead. That,a set of Ken Tool 18 inch irons I bought for changing the tires on my Model A Ford, along with a pair of Dowidat irons like John pictured have worked pretty well for me in the shop At the risk of cursing myself, I have not had a flat on any of my tubed tires in years and for the tubeless ones I carry a plug kit. I'll carry the small irons and a patch kit on the Brit bikes but on either one the wheels are hard enough to get off on the lift with a jack under it let alone by the side of the road with just the center stand.
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#864802 Nov 30th a 11:24 PM
by HughdeMann
HughdeMann
Well, we all have differing ways....I use a plastic pill barrel, about 30 gallons, I think. Got it at the used barrel place for a trash can and it works fine. I break the beads with a big c clamp. I use a rim protector for the back side to get the bead off. I use smooth hand cleaner for lube. Dual use, doncha know! I always put some talc inside to help the tube, and inflate to about ten pounds a couple of times to straighten out the tube. I don't know where I got my irons, they're labeled Honda. I've got a drawer full of 17 inch rim strips courtesy of my son in law. They work on 18 inch rims, too.
I tried the workmate idea the other day, and it works very well for me. Gordon, Ive got a spare workmate if you need one!
And I don't have any wheels that use rim locks, but the new Sun rim I got for the BMW has a safety lip for a tubless tire.
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#864857 Dec 1st a 03:15 PM
by MikeG
MikeG
This has certainly been an interesting thread so far. I never imagined that something as basic as changing a tire had so many variables and methods of doing it. It's also nice to learn that maybe I've been installing my tubes wrong all these years. I have always taken the inner nut off and just installed the outer one snug to the rim. I think that comes from seeing enough of the original tubes with nothing but a single threaded collar with a knurled edge instead of a hex nut. Live and Learn!
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#864836 Dec 1st a 06:54 AM
by DavidP
DavidP
Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
David P…….I’m going to disagree with you on two points BUT I can have my mind changed……I’m not an expert at anything.
1. I put the rim lock over the rim strip not under.
2. I leave that second nut on the tube valve inside the rim. After trying to figure out why they always have 2 nuts but NEVER tell you what to do with it. I decided that by leaving the nut inside there was less chance I could pull the valve stem out by over tightening the outer nut. I’d like to hear why you put both outside?
Until I can buy a rim strip with holes pre punched for the rim locks I will put the locks under the rim strip rather than compromise its integrity with additional holes.
From another site: All the "experts" said they do it the way they found them from the factory, which in most cases, if not all, is one nut inside and one nut outside, tightened down on the rim.
Which is what at least 2 Tube companies warn is incorrect, and strongly suggests against it.
The research started narrowing down as I was contacting Tire/Tube companies.
Michelin responded with this comment:

....The conical washer sits over the inner tube valve stem and should follow the contour of the valve so that the convex side sits against the wheel rim when fitting.
Once fitted to the wheel the two lock nuts sit on the valve cap side of the wheel rim. After fitment and inflation to the correct pressure, the two nuts should be backed up towards the valve cap, and locked against each other...

Continental also stated something similar, that the nuts were just used for installation, and were to be backed up to the cap and used as lock nuts.
Several youtube video's by Dunlop show their tire whiz using one nut as a lock nut against the cap (however it shows the 2nd nut on the tube before he puts it in the tire).
Neither company suggested that one of the nuts be placed inside the rim between the rim and the tube.

So what's the answer? Follow the mfgr's advice, or your neighbor's brother in law who's been doing it for 50 years and because he does it that way it must be right?
I do find it amusing that ALL the Honda's on the showroom floor only have 1 nut showing, and its always so tight is gouges the crap out of the new rims :rofl1:
How can all the motorcycle companies be assembling things wrong?
Who do you believe? The company that makes the tubes? or the company that puts tires on their bikes?"
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