Britbike forum

Classic British SparesKlempf British PartsBaxter CycleBritBike Sponsor SteadfastCyclesThe Bonneville ShopLowbrow CustomsGirling Classic MotorcycleLucas Classic MotorcycleHepolite PistonsIndustrial tec supply Classic Bike Parts Cheshire

Upgrade Your membership! Premium Membership Gold Membership Vendor Membership

New Sponsor post
New FAQ post
Photos on private message
by Mal Marsden - 06/16/22 7:00 pm
Manuals on DVD - Buy 4 for 3
All 4 DVD Manual
Member Spotlight
Ian Ashdown
Ian Ashdown
SoCal
Posts: 160
Joined: April 2014
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Top Posters(30 Days)
reverb 80
Allan G 54
kevin 52
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
Cyborg 32
gunner 27
Newest Members
budpotter, Mark Sharp, Ian Scotland UK, cherbini, grahamsmythe
12,158 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
5 members (Brian Brown, jpjohn, Magnetoman, DAMadd, Rohan), 23 guests, and 14 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums35
Topics76,301
Posts772,513
Members12,158
Most Online151
May 8th, 2022
Thread Like Summary
desco, gavin eisler, Gordon Gray, HayMike, Hillbilly bike, Hugh Jörgen, JubeePrince, kevin, koan58, kommando, NickL, rory brennan
Total Likes: 23
Original Post (Thread Starter)
#861884 10/28/2021 6:29 PM
by JubeePrince
JubeePrince
Hi All -

Time to add a new tool to my garage. Anyone have any suggestions? I'm sure there are good ones and poor ones. I'm rebuilding an A75 Rocket 3 after I get the Royal on the road, so I'll have a chance to use it again...

Cheers,

Steve
Liked Replies
#862046 Oct 31st a 02:30 AM
by Tridentman
Tridentman
"Back in the Day" when I was early into motorcycles (and Adam was a lad) we had no access to internal bore gages of any description.
The best we could do was an external micrometer.
In order to judge whether a rebore was needed we would put the piston (no rings) into the bore and insert feeler gages between piston OD and cylinder bore.
Measure the piston OD with a micrometer and you have a bore diameter.
Repeat at different positions around the circumference and up and down the bore and you get a pretty good idea of the state of the bore.
In particular comparing the measurements at the bottom of the bore where it was unworn to the swept part of the bore gave some pretty good indications of bore wear.
I must admit I get very wary of anybody pretending that they measure to one or two tenths of a thou unless they are measuring in a temperature controlled environment using equipment recently calibrated to known standards and traceable back to international standards.
Just my two cents worth of course.
6 members like this
#862040 Oct 30th a 10:26 PM
by linker48x
linker48x
Hate to pile on but I’m one more vote for an actual bore gauge and micrometer as being the accurate and repeatable way to measure a cylinder. Buy the bore gauges and micrometers in sets.

But why do you need that level of accuracy? What you have, calipers and a telescoping gauge, will tell you useful stuff like what oversize of piston you have, or roughly how much taper you’ve got, then the actual machinist can take it from there and bore it precisely. Assuming you aren’t going to get a boring bar and try to bore the cylinder yourself.
4 members like this
#862015 Oct 30th a 06:16 PM
by triton thrasher
triton thrasher
Originally Posted by koan58
TR7RVMan:
"Rock handle until dial indicator reads maximum diameter."

I know what you meant Don, but for clarity, it is the minimum diameter that one looks for in this situation.

Dave

No, you rock it til it’s at dead opposite points, so you’re measuring the full diameter.
2 members like this
#862016 Oct 30th a 07:04 PM
by Magnetoman
Magnetoman
The diagram shows how all 2-point instruments work.
[Linked Image]
If the handle attached to the probe isn't parallel to the axis of the cylinder the probe will register a value that's too large. As the handle moves from tilting one way, through parallel, to tilting the other way, the length of the probe will go through a minimum. The minimum length of the probe is the diameter of the cylinder, so the problem becomes one of finding that minimum..

Telescoping gauges, inside micrometers, and 2-point bore gauges with dial indicators all use the same principle, although this list is in order of increasing accuracy and sensitivity.
[Linked Image]
Attached Images
2 members like this
by Tridentman
Tridentman
I guess in a sense we are saying the same things, MMan.
Measuring a dimension is a crap shoot----measuring differences in dimensions is much more real world.
So in the "good old days" we measured the difference (with feeler gages) using a piston in an area of unswept bore and in a swept area.
The difference gave the bore wear.
And assuming that the bore was correct when new this gave one the wherewithal to judge whether a rebore was necessary.
Much more real world and reliable IMHO to trying to measure the bore size in absolute terms and comparing that with the book new bore size to judge bore wear.
Just my old mind wandering around these matters.
2 members like this
#862013 Oct 30th a 05:50 PM
by Magnetoman
Magnetoman
Originally Posted by JubeePrince
Well, that escalated quickly…
"Escalated"? Don't you mean "descended"?
1 member likes this
#862007 Oct 30th a 04:29 PM
by George Kaplan
George Kaplan
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
the guy says his measurements with a telescopic gauge are "dead nuts" accurate every time,

1 member likes this
#862011 Oct 30th a 04:58 PM
by Hugh Jörgen
Hugh Jörgen
Scottish tape measure.
[Linked Image]
Attached Images
1 member likes this
#862048 Oct 31st a 03:24 AM
by Stuart Kirk
Stuart Kirk
Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
Scottish tape measure.
[Linked Image]
Originally Posted by JubeePrince
Well, that escalated quickly…
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
"Escalated"? Don't you mean "descended"?
Only by steps of approximately .003"
1 member likes this
#861952 Oct 29th a 08:07 PM
by JubeePrince
JubeePrince
Found a set of telescoping gauges (Mitutoyo). Thanks everyone.

As for learning how to use it, let the lessons begin! So far, it seems the best way to use these is to have the bore on a horizontal plane. This allows the tool to "fall" instead of having bore on vertical and "pulling" the tool.

[video:youtube]
[/video]



Steve
1 member likes this
#862027 Oct 30th a 08:19 PM
by TR7RVMan
TR7RVMan
Hi, With bore gauge you watch indicator needle. As you rock handle the needle will stop for instant & go the other way. You work it until the needle is at that stopping point. Pin of tool is at the straight across position.

How should I describe this? I don’t know. I know this it takes my apprentice about 20 seconds to get the feel of this in real life.

Learning how to read micrometer & setting gauge to zero & understanding what deviation from zero means takes a little more time.

I have Starrett inside micrometer. It’s pretty accurate, but it takes a very deft touch to get repeatable results. Measuring my bores you can feel difference of .0002”. But not that easy.

The dial bore gauge is costly, but works really good.

When/if you get into fitting main bearings into case & on crank, press fits & C clearance of bearing becomes critical. Does .0001” make a difference? Trust me it does. Splitting hairs is needed. Just went through retro fitting timing side roller on my ‘73 Tiger.

Engineering tables on bearing website gives all info you need. My problem was I couldn’t measure case bore accurately enough. Was an interesting learn experience. One thing I learned is I need a high precision bore gauge.

You take a shaft what will just slide through a hole. Increase diameter of shaft by .0001”. You just learned how tight a .0001” press fit is. Just the heat of holding the part or micrometer in your hand will skew results when we get to precise measuring.

Suppose you fit piston just a wee bit too tight. Gets pretty warm up that hill on 100f day. Piston expands another .0001 or .0002”.
Remember that .0001” press fit we were talking about? Now the piston is thinking about it & how not scuff. This stuff matters!
Don
1 member likes this
by Hillbilly bike
Hillbilly bike
I use a old oversize hone, I believe it's 3.25 inch. It leaves a nice hone pattern...When in doubt, ask the manufacturer.
1 member likes this
British Cycle SupplyMorries PlaceKlempf British PartsBSA Unit SinglesPodtronicVintage MagazineBritBike SponsorBritish Tools & FastenersBritBike Sponsor






© 1996-2022 britbike.com
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5