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BeezaBryan, BSA_WM20, Chip H, Gordon Gray, GrandPaul, Jon W. Whitley, MikeG, oilyamerican, PINEMONKEY
Total Likes: 14
Original Post (Thread Starter)
by Deadstiffcatt
Deadstiffcatt
The recent Abandoned Triumph thread brings the thoughts to mind......
The end of the gasoline powered vehicle era is quickly drawing near. For industrial purposes, it won't end nearly as quickly as it will for private ownership. With many countries targeting sales of zero emissions vehicles by the mid 2030's, what will we see? Petrol stations will be replaced by battery recharging/exchange stations (still gotta buy that beef jerky and a drink somewhere on the road) and it stands to reason that gas will become fairly expensive based on supply and DEMAND. It stands to reason that so many vintage vehicles will simply become too expensive to drive for the average person. I see a large proportion of our vintage bikes today going the way of the abandoned Triumph in just a 30 year period from now. One can't ignore the fate of a Roman chariot, neat to see, but of no use to the world today; likewise the effect Henry Ford and the model T had on the use of horse and wagons in the US over a brief period at the turn and early part of the last century. In less that 30 years, the wagon had become obsolete, as highways and petrol stations replaced livery stables and dirt roads.
So if any of you 20 something engineering types would be kind enough to produce a propulsion system that will be compatable with 2050 technology and can replace our vintage bike motors with one that looks just like the original, it would be greatly appreciated. Oh yeah, it will also make you very wealthy if you are the first to make it happen....
Liked Replies
by Lannis
Lannis
The key is that they are "Targeting" for elimination of internal combustion engines by some date (extremely unlikely to happen), replacing petrol stations and the fuel distribution system with "charging stations" is a massive job that no one knows how to do, some states can barely keep the lights on WITHOUT electric cars charging all night even now, and people are still riding vintage bikes that are 100 years old, despite the fact that acetylene headlamps and leather drive belts are not available at your local Advance Auto outlet.

So I really don't think that these big changes are going to happen in that time span, no matter how badly some folks would like to wave it into existence with their virtue wand ....

Lannis
2 members like this
by Chip H
Chip H
Some of my favorite vintage bike pics.

It Doesn’t Get Cooler Than This: Motorcycle Chariot Racing. It Was A Real Thing.
https://viralnova.com/motorcycle-chariots/


The coal burners as grocery getters and local routes, go for it.
Natty gas, hydrogen, pedal power all have their plus and minus.
Bulk OTR delivery, cost, mobility ICE engines and infrastructure is not dissapearing this century.

Personally I don't need a EV self driving super car and neither does anyone else.
2 members like this
by Irish Swede
Irish Swede
You can fill a gas tank in five minutes.
Can you recharge a battery car in that time? I doubt it.

A friend sent me a picture of a field in France, in which two or three hundred of the same electric cars now sit abandoned.

The French government had bought them for official vehicles, but when the batteries were no longer rechargeable, the cost to replace the batteries
was almost the same as the cost for a replacement car.

It was cheaper to dump the cars in that field, but now they have a new problem: the batteries leak and the ground is becoming polluted.

If THIS is "the future," I'll be happy to be dead before it gets here.
1 member likes this
by BSA_WM20
BSA_WM20
Battery powered cars as a cure for climate change is a con and always will be .
Much like the bulk of the EU claiming to be carbon neutral when all they have done is shifted the pollution to China & India.
Hydrogen powered vehicles as either fuel cells or direct oxidisation will probably make a difference however the real problem is not CO2
It is me & you and our decendents , there are just too many of them consuming too much & clearing too much land.
But it is easier just to graph CO2 vs temperature rather than number of bums or acres of trees .

And yes battery cars create more pollution than they prevent .
But that pollution is in China, Chille & South Africa so it does not count.
1 member likes this
by PINEMONKEY
PINEMONKEY
The moment some bright kid cracks the code on battery efficiency the ICE will be as dead as dirigibles and all the curmudgeonly whinging and good old days lamentations won't bring it back. If we, as a species, are smart enough perhaps we can progress past digging up things to burn to create cheap and easy energy. But, gauging by recent events and attitudes I'm not holding my breath (except when I pass someone not wearing a mask in the grocery store). Ennyhoo, I'm out! I gotta go rub some whale oil on my virtue wand, if you know what I mean!
Keep ROLLING COAL, y'all!
1 member likes this
by ricochetrider
ricochetrider
Originally Posted by Deadstiffcatt
The recent Abandoned Triumph thread brings the thoughts to mind......
The end of the gasoline powered vehicle era is quickly drawing near.... (snip)... One can't ignore the fate of a Roman chariot, neat to see, but of no use to the world today; likewise the effect Henry Ford and the model T had on the use of horse and wagons in the US over a brief period at the turn and early part of the last century. In less that 30 years, the wagon had become obsolete, as highways and petrol stations replaced livery stables and dirt roads.

Clearly you've never been to Amish Country. Horse(s) & buggies are a regular thing to see on modern roadways; this is THE primary mode of transport for all Amish. As there are quite a lot of Amish here in Pennsyltuckey, we see them literally all the time. I've seen some funny sights- like an Amish buggy at a 4 way stop sign in some tiny village. and behind the buggy was a massive line-up of Harleys.
It's also not unusual to see Amish in bustling downtown Lancaster PA, and out in Lancaster County proper, it's a common sight to see Amish buggies (with their turn signals on) sitting at a traffic light with 53' tractor trailers, cars, tourist busses, etc, all around.

The fancy-pants Lancaster County Amish have shiny buggies with battery powered lights and turn signals, "regular" amish out in other rural areas have less fancy but hard-sided buggies, and the poor Nebraskan Amish buggies have canvas tops. So not only is there a bunch of Amish but there's a hierarchy amongst them.

Kill the gas powered vehicles all you want, but around here, it'll free up the road, once more- for the horse & buggy.
That said, knowing people who either own or work with electric vehicles... speaking strictly for me, I vacillate between mild & zero enthusiasm for them. It's kind of a semi interesting gimmick, but the interest faded very quickly once I had a go.

I'm kind of like our Bryan: 30 years' time? I cannot say with any certainty I'll ever see the day. If, somehow I do... it'd be no small miracle if I could even ride a motorbike- electric or otherwise.
1 member likes this
by Lannis
Lannis
Originally Posted by PINEMONKEY
Y'all sore about steam losing favor, too?


In other news: OLD MEN YELL AT CLOUD!

Not a matter of "favor", it's a matter of "physics". Energy density and all that inconvenient stuff ....

Lannis
1 member likes this
by MikeG
MikeG
Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
Battery powered cars as a cure for climate change is a con and always will be .
Much like the bulk of the EU claiming to be carbon neutral when all they have done is shifted the pollution to China & India.
Hydrogen powered vehicles as either fuel cells or direct oxidisation will probably make a difference however the real problem is not CO2
It is me & you and our decendents , there are just too many of them consuming too much & clearing too much land.
But it is easier just to graph CO2 vs temperature rather than number of bums or acres of trees .

And yes battery cars create more pollution than they prevent .
But that pollution is in China, Chille & South Africa so it does not count.

We are the virus...covid is natures antibody.
1 member likes this
by MikeG
MikeG
Originally Posted by ricochetrider
Meanwhile, I don't know where you guys live but I live in the Industrial Transport Hub of the U.S. east coast. it's not unusual to be on a motorway utterly surrounded by massive 53 foot long 18 wheel lorries, with barely another car or 4 -or 2- wheeled vehicle in sight. There are more & more expansive truck stops around here with acres & acres covered by hundreds of trucks parked and idling at any given moment- not to mention roadside rest stops overflowing with trucks awaiting their time to appear at whatever depot to load or unload... massive warehouses here, that USED to occupy only certain zones are currently moving further afield- quite literally afield, as at every rural freeway exit for miles around, warehouses are replacing crops in the local fields. These are no insignificant affairs either- each one is hundreds of thousands of square feet in size with many docks for innumerable trucks. Sometimes these buildings sit empty for a while but eventually all of the ones around here have filled up and are working.

I recall predictions a few years ago that freight trains would overtake trucking as the best way to move large amounts of everything and currently the typical freight train is often seemingly a couple miles long. Certainly, trains are getting longer and longer, so something must be happening in this realm. Near as I can tell, tho, a truck still has to get stuff to its final destination, so I guess trucks are also, well not really "back" because they never went away. Interesting side note; our area often gets "rated" (by whom I do not know) as having some of the worst general air quality in the nation- because of the fact of all these trucks.

To my way of seeing this, if there was ever a case for the switch to electric vehicles, it's in the world of large, freight hauling trucks.
.

I have to agree with you Tom, the I81 corridor around central PA is the absolute pits for truck traffic. At one time the idea was to load the trailers onto railroad flat cars for the long haul and have the last bit of the journey completed by the truck. That idea seems to have gone by and I'm not real sure why, but I suspect the time delays involved versus driving direct have a lot to do with it. In addition to the labor shortage most of the country is in now we are also experiencing very loooong delays between the time an order for inventory is placed with the manufacturer/distributor and the time it hits our door step. This is not just in the automotive supply industry either. Every one of my industrial and construction customers have similar issues getting the materials they need to do their jobs. If you question the suppliers about it the answer you get is that 1)no transportation available, or 2) it's sitting on the docks in LA or 3) still in containers stacked up on the ship waiting to be unloaded. Blame numbers 2 and 3 on covid or politics or whatever else you want but if ever there was a reason for expanded intermodal freight number 1 is it.
1 member likes this
by Lannis
Lannis
Originally Posted by NickL
A good thing that has happened over the last 50 years is that the general
efficiency of the average car engine has improved. The downside is that
rather than making the majority of vehicles more energy efficient, they have
made them more powerful and glitzy. The huge use of electronics on the
good old ICE can be a massive plus but application and marketing are what
sells cars.
How many people want to drive a really boring 1 litre car that will do 150 mpg
if it can only do 70 mph.? Yet for 95% of typical car use, this would be an ideal
design.
Politics will determine what happens with electric/Hybrid cars, they are all crooks
and subject to bribery etc so just live with it.

Well, what you just yourself described says that consumer demand for powerful glitzy cars is what's driving design, not politics. As usual, it's US and not "them" that's driving the issues....

Lannis
1 member likes this
by Deadstiffcatt
Deadstiffcatt
Wow. All this because someone posted about an abandoned Triumph! (That's what got me thinking on my original post.)
A lot of interesting and inciteful viewpoints, enough to make me realize that a specific time range on the demise of an internal combustion engine is one that can't be pre determined. The cards will fall as they fall.
Now has anyone figured out how to transport me back to 1950 so I can buy my new Thunderbird off the Johnson Motors floor and remain blissfully ignorant until I die sometime in the 1980's?
1 member likes this
by rick e.
rick e.
Originally Posted by ricochetrider
This just in:
ARTICLE LINK


Interesting article from 2019- so not exactly *current* (see what I did there? laugh ) news

Must admit I thought the e-bike thing was a bit lame at first, but I starting to think it is a fantastic idea. (exception: Tourist rentals)

Certainly one of the fastest growing areas, just check out the models/range available. I'm seeing co-workers more and more using them for transport.
1 member likes this
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