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Allan G, courtney
Total Likes: 8
Original Post (Thread Starter)
#843048 03/15/2021 11:15 PM
by Ragmanx
Ragmanx
I burned out my Podtronics Reg/Rec. My fault, hooked up my Battery Tender charger and forgot it was connected and burned out the rectifier.

It was a 200W single phase unit on a '68 A65L

Was about to order a new one from CBS when I saw another Podtronics 200 W, single phase that says I can eliminate the battery.
It is only $10 more.

Is anyone using this unit?

And does it work good?

Thank you,
SteveG
Liked Replies
#844652 Mar 30th a 11:38 PM
by Ragmanx
Ragmanx
Charging problem solved!

Installed the Lucas stator. Fired first kick. Charges over 14 volts on fast rev. Perfect.

Wound up installing the 16 amp. stator, new battery, and Podtronics reg/rec

Probably didn't need the reg. The stator was the culprit. and now I have a spare reg. and that's fine.

Thank you all for the valuable input. I learned a lot!

SteveG
2 members like this
#843192 Mar 16th a 11:19 PM
by NickL
NickL
Simple explanation of adding a capacitor.
https://chselectricity.weebly.com/smoothing.html.
If like Allan your alternator setup is in good order, then the cap will allow
the engine to run on just the alternator output. If you wish to use a digital tacho
or electronic ignition it is also a good idea as any smoothing and spike suppressing
on the power supply is favourable for electronics.
A single fuse in the battery line will probably protect the bike's wiring but will not
protect the regulator if it's wired directly to the bike's supply. The alternator can
produce sufficient power to damage the rectifier/regulator, better to fuse that as
a separate entity. (In saying that,,,,,i haven't fused my ones separately............. bloody hypocrite eh??)
1 member likes this
#843205 Mar 17th a 02:47 AM
by quinten
quinten
Originally Posted by Ragmanx
I've learnt a bit about Rec/Reg. Thank you!

I think, in my case I will wire it up the same way since both are identical, except that the new one has a capacitor built in.

I'll still run a battery and if the battery fails. I should still get home with the capacitor.

My only question is- Should my battery fail, will I still disconnect the battery?

SteveG

yes , disconnect the battery
because the failed battery should still be considered a competing or parasitic load
for the meager alternator output at lower RPMs .
you want and need all the power to go to the ignition when kicking over .

If the battery is only discharged and not failed ... it can be hooked back up as soon as the bike is running .
you may not even need to unhook a discharged battery ... the capacitor will help , somewhat with kickstart
even with a discharge battery ( you don't have to unhook anything till you need to unhook it )

how you wire the new R/R can make a difference in how easy it is to disable the battery
and still have the R/R with capacitor still in circuit .
1 member likes this
#843279 Mar 17th a 05:49 PM
by Stuart
Stuart
Hi Steve,

Sorry, late to the party. cool

Originally Posted by Ragmanx
I burned out my Podtronics Reg/Rec.
eek

Originally Posted by Ragmanx
200W single phase unit on a '68 A65L
Was about to order
when I saw another Podtronics 200 W, single phase that says I can eliminate the battery.
It is only $10 more
Originally Posted by Allan G
it’s basically like adding a capacitor but all built into the one box,
Ime, poor reasoning:-

. Capacitors have a limited life. When (not if) the capacitor you paid an extra ten bucks for (and ten bucks for a capacitor seems a lot) expires, you're going to throw away a fifty-buck reg./rec ...?

Originally Posted by Ragmanx
If my battery goes out the capacitor will be used it restart the bike and get home.
. Many, many things on these old heaps might stop you getting home. When the capacitor you paid an extra ten bucks for expires, it will take out the battery; far more likely than a modern AGM or gel battery "going out".

Ten bucks is better-spent towards breakdown insurance, that'd get you home if anything happened, including when the capacitor fails ...?

Originally Posted by Ragmanx
The negative side of the battery is fused.
Poor practice on 'positive ground' electrics.

If something metal touches the actual negative battery terminal and another part of the bike, a fuse in a wire connected to the negative battery terminal cannot prevent the short because the short is not through the fuse in that position. The wiring harness will be badly-damaged in only a few seconds, the bike itself shortly thereafter ... thumbsdown

'Positive ground' electrics, much better is to connect harness Red wires to one single Red wire, fuse in that single Red wire and only that single Red wire actually connected to the battery positive terminal. Then something metal touches the actual negative battery terminal and another part of the bike, only the fuse connected to battery positive will blow. thumbsup

As Quinten started to post, but you probably know already, the Podtronics Black wire is connected to the Brown/White wire that used to connect to the centre spade of the original rectifier. Brown/White also connects one ignition switch terminal and one Ammeter terminal (the other Ammeter terminal is connected by Brown/Blue to battery negative).

Podtronics fitting instructions about connecting the Red wire are confusing; thumbsdown to be clear, it should be connected to the battery positive terminal, nowhere else (because anywhere else is pointless).

Originally Posted by Allan G
I’d suggest fitting a fuse to it
Originally Posted by NickL
single fuse in the battery line
will not protect the regulator if it's wired directly to the bike's supply. The alternator can produce sufficient power to damage the rectifier/regulator, better to fuse that as a separate entity.
If you move the main/single fuse to the one-and-only (Red?) wire connected between the harness and the battery positive terminal, as I've written above, it protects more than any fuse in the Brown/Blue wire connected to the battery negative terminal.

The only thing neither of the above fuse positions protects is the reg./rec. itself. I concur with both Allan and Nick, the Pod should have a separate fuse in one of its DC wires, I suggest the Red one to battery positive.

Hth.

Regards,
1 member likes this
#843312 Mar 17th a 10:17 PM
by koan58
koan58
“Ime, poor reasoning:-
. Capacitors have a limited life. When (not if) the capacitor you paid an extra ten bucks for (and ten bucks for a capacitor seems a lot) expires, you're going to throw away a fifty-buck reg./rec ...?”

I think you are on shaky ground here Stuart. Of course all electronic, electrical and mechanical devices have a limited lifetime (MTBF).

I suspect you are thinking particularly of historical capacitors used in magnetos and traditional condensers. They were relatively short-lived, because of the materials available/used at the time.

However the capacitors available today offer much longer lifetimes, even electrolytics, which is what I guess is used in this application.
Such capacitors are common in PC’s and other electronics that continue to work for decades.

Perhaps NickL or someone else may enlighten, but these caps tend to last longer when they are used, rather than sitting idle in a flat discharged circuit for long periods.
1 member likes this
#843768 Mar 22nd a 01:56 PM
by Stuart
Stuart
Hi Steve,
Originally Posted by Ragmanx
Battery Tender charger
The BSA is different, as you know, because or the positive ground.
Nope, no different. Electrons go the same way 'round any DC circuit; "ground" is an imaginary concept, nothing to do with Physics.

The only reason you'd experience difficulty is if you didn't connect the Battery Tender leads to the actual battery terminals, you were connecting either BT -ve or +ve lead to somewhere else on the bike.

Originally Posted by Ragmanx
last week I forgot to disconnect it before starting the bike, That move destroyed the charger.
Curious ... suggests the alternator was working and the BT doesn't have any protection against being connected the wrong way 'round (which is effectively what starting the bike's engine/alternator did)? confused

Originally Posted by Allan G
tried starting bikes up when they are on an opti-mate before now, usually the optimate just cuts out until you unplug and plug it back in again. It hasn’t damaged the optimate,
+1; protection against being connected the wrong way 'round.

Originally Posted by Ragmanx
Perhaps better asking for comments before you ordered it? Since you asked:-

. Several previous posts from people who bought and fitted them say they don't give any more power at low rpm than standard RM21.

. Those particular Wassell pattern stators are available in the US, curious why you'd order from GB? confused

. Otoh, available from another British dealer are original Lucas RM23 stators, that do make more power than RM21 at all rpm, for less money than Feked have relieved you of.

Originally Posted by Allan G
shame you didn’t know this before, you could have bought a 3 phase high output stator and regrec and never had another battery issue again.
3 phase kit is you reach max output at 2000-3000 revs,
single phase I believe max output is something like 5000+
Not so.

All alternators generate more with increasing rotor rpm just, at higher rpm, for the same given rpm increase, the Amps increase is less.

5,000 rpm was just a comparison point 'original Lucas' happened to choose. Afaik, Wassell Lucas haven't ever published rpm/Amps plots for any of their pattern stators.

'Original Lucas' rated both the aforementioned RM23 and the RM24 high-output 3-phase for 14.5A @ 5,000 rpm, but the 3-phase's output increases faster at lower rpm - 'original Lucas' advertised 75% of rated @ 2,400 rpm for a single-phase like the RM23, but 85% of rated @ 2,400 rpm for a RM24 3-phase; i.e. a gnat's under 11A from the RM23 but over 12A from the RM24.

Hth.

Regards,
1 member likes this
#843845 Mar 23rd a 05:05 AM
by DavidP
DavidP
I believe the RM24 uses 9 poles, as opposed to 6 for the single-phase stators.
It would be interesting to build a test rig, similar to the one used to test Zener diodes, to compare current and voltage output at different RPM.
My only comparison came when I installed an RM24 on my A65. The voltage measured at the battery goes to 14V at a little over 2000RPM. I no longer need to ride five miles after a short trip to the store just to recharge the battery.
1 member likes this
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