Britbike forum Forums British motorcycles in general Bsa gold star forum My Rocket Gold Star

For very good reason, I've never revealed before that I own an RGS. The reason being, I didn't know.

My notes show that three years after buying a basket case in 1994, that turned out to be the world's first Spitfire Scrambler, I bought an A10 engine to use as a donor in case it was needed when rebuilding the Spitfire's engine. As an aside, that same seller also had an ASCT gearbox that I bought as well, planning to use it in the Spitfire if I couldn't locate the proper SCT2. I finally found an SCT2 a decade later.

Nineteen years after I got the ASCT, a 1962 Catalina came my way with an SCT gearbox whose main shaft was very slightly bent, but quite functional. However, it happens that an ASCT is correct for that year, so I installed it five years ago at the same time I "upgraded" to Clubman gearing for the wide-open spaces of the Southwest.

But, I digress. The same purchase that had the correct gearbox for my Catalina also included a DA10R donor engine, which I had basically forgotten about until yesterday. It happens that, for no particular reason, I've been slowly assembling RGS information, which included exchanging a few emails with Ian Jackson of the GS Owner's Club. I already knew that DA10R engines were pulled in somewhat random order from the same assembly line for both the RGS and the more numerous Super Rocket, and something prompted me to send the donor engine's number to Ian to ask if, against all odds, it might be from an RGS.

Ian wrote this morning that my engine was among one of fourteen 'A10 Rocket Gold Stars' that were sent to the west coast in 'Hap Alzina USA spec' the first ten days of October 1962. Consistent with this despatch date, the date code stamped on the timing case is 3 7 62 (i.e., July 3, 1962).

Who says lightning never strikes twice? Or, three times, counting the ASCT. Amazingly, I've owned an RGS for 26 years without even know it. Well, at least, the engine for an RGS. The donor engine I bought in case I needed it to help restore the world's first Spitfire Scrambler, itself a Rocket Gold Star by a different name, turns out to be from an actual Rocket Gold Star.

What are the odds of a 4th lightning strike, in the form of finding any GA10 frame to mate with this engine, let alone the correct one? Anyone have a GA10 frame gathering dust in their garage that they want to get rid of?

p.s. According to Ian, there were 1305 RGS and 266 RGS Scramblers, for a total of 1571. These numbers differ by ~10 from those often seen in magazine articles, but I trust Ian's thorough study of the despatch records.

Did Ian allude to which GA10 frame this engine may have come with? The Rocket Gold Star Scrambler used the ASCT gearbox, do you suppose the gearbox is the one that came with that engine?


Bill B...

Where did you find that they came with an ASCT? Service Sheet 93 from February 1963 shows A10 R.G.S. (U.S.A.) and A10 R.G.S. Scrambles (U.S.A.) have ARRT gearboxes, with "earlier machines" having ones marked ST.BT, although with the same gearing as the ARRT.

As you know, Ian quite rightly doesn't give out the matching numbers, but he did tell me the original frame was in the sequence 42x.

Having an RGS engine, I'm now only a few parts short of a complete RGS (or a few cards short of a full deck…). Two parts manuals, plus the following two bulletins, tell me what I need to find:

BSA Parts Service Bulletin No. G.21., April 1962 "A10 Rocket Gold Star" [9 pages]
"All parts except those listed below are shown in the Super Rocket or Gold Star Spare Parts Catalogue."

BSA Parts Service Bulletin No. G.21B., October 1962, "Supplement to Parts Service Bulletin G. 21", "A10 Rocket Gold Star (U.S.A. West Coast)" [1 page]
"All parts except those listed below are as detailed on Parts Service Bulletin No. G.21 or as shown in the Super Rocket or Gold Star spare parts catalog."

Of course, nothing is ever simple. G.21 says the gearbox "Internals are the same as Gold Star Clubmans (RRT2)," and G.21B doesn't correct that. However, as mentioned above, depending on when the stamping changed, Service Sheet 93 says I need either an ST.BT or ARRT. However, further adding to the complications, a July 1963 chart shows all of the following have the same internal gearing: ARRT, ASC, ASC.T and STD.2. That same chart shows the 650cc G/Star Twin (one of many aliases the RGS hid behind) with the ARRT but the 650cc G/Star Spitfire with the ASC. Despite the ferocious name of the machine, this gearbox is a non-T-type.

Hi, can you explain me why 07 i.e. month 7 is September in this case?

As far as i know 07 is july, even at BSA in those days? Or do i miss something?

Gearbox bolted up to my RGS Scrambler engine that I have owned for 30 years.


Bill B...

Ah, clearly I forgot on which side of the International Date Line the BSA factory was located. Indeed, it was July there, making mine a 1962 model...
Hmm. As usual, BSA doesn't make it simple for us. The ARRT of the road version is visible, as is the ASC of the scrambler. Or, even an ASCT with two R's thrown in for free.

Now that I'm the owner of a Rocket Gold Star myself, I'll be annoying other RGS owners, in particular owners of U.S. versions, with questions about them. You've been warned.

I'll continue to post random RGS-related information in this thread. I've gone through all my BSA literature and made a folder containing everything that mentions the RGS. A longer task will be compiling a table from the various bulletins that shows UK RGS parts, parts from East Coast RGS that differ from UK, and parts from West Coast RGS that differ from UK and East Coast.

Showing that either BSA riders lived sheltered lives, or advertising copy writers lacked perspective, a 1963 Hap Alzina price list says "…there is no greater thrill than personally viewing these magnificent, gleaming B.S.A. machines." No greater thrill? Hmm, I can think of a couple. Anyway, that price list shows that a Rocket Gold Star was 19% more expensive than the latest, greatest machine in BSA's lineup, the A65 Royal Star.

They were trying to move the unit construction twins, weren't they?

It's interseting that the Gold Star Spitfire was only $5 more expensive than the Catalina Scrambler.

BSA didn't go bankrupt for another decade so it seems safe to assume the accountants they had in 1963 knew what they were doing. Other than the engines, the Catalina and Spitfire were identical down to their gearboxes and number of carburetors. The same for the Clubman and street version of the RGS, which differed in price by $75. The A10 had two cylinders, but the GS had an alloy muff. Anyway, the small price difference indicates how expensive it was to build that single cylinder engine.

My often quoted BSA dealer said when the A65's came out they were making more money off of warranties then selling bikes or parts.


Bill B...

September was the seventh month, before 153 BC.

An excerpt from an undated Hap Alzina bulletin from c1963 explains the difficulty of identifying the required parts for East and West Coast Rocket Gold Stars: "For years BSA has evaded this market on an adequate parts book system because of the expense involved and not wanting to advertise in the home market that the U.S. was supplied with special components." However, two factory spares manuals, plus the four bulletins listed below, contain most of the necessary information.

BSA Parts Service Bulletin No. G.21, April 1962 "A10 Rocket Gold Star" [9 pages]
"All parts except those listed below are shown in the Super Rocket or Gold Star Spare Parts Catalogue."

BSA Parts Service Bulletin No. G.21B, October 1962, "Supplement to Parts Service Bulletin G. 21", "A10 Rocket Gold Star (U.S.A. West Coast)" [1 page]
"All parts except those listed below are as detailed on Parts Service Bulletin No. G.21 or as shown in the Super Rocket or Gold Star spare parts catalog."

Supplementary Parts & Price List for Gold Star 650 Twin, BSA Inc., February 21, 1963 [3 pages]
"All parts except those listed herein are shown in the Super Rocket Parts List or DBD Gold Star Parts List (Super Rocket List covers most Engine and Gearbox parts)"

BSA Parts Service Bulletin No. N.8, August 1963 [9 pages]
"A10 S/R, A10 RGS, A10 RGS Scrambles, A50 and A65 U.S.A. Models 1963"

The reason the above only contain "most" of the required parts is there are a few "minor" additional bulletins containing relevant information. For example, the components of the improved clutch installed in all Super Rockets after frame GA7-9483 are listed in BSA Parts Service Bulletin G.A.10 from July 1960, so that Bulletin supplements the Parts Catalogue. Another example is, I'll want the improved version of tachometer drive pin 42-196, with its oil groove having a helix opposite of the original, introduced when the designers realized it was better to pump oil back into the engine case rather than out of it. This fix is described in Service Bulletin #142 from BSA Inc. (the East Coast distributor). That bulletin only notes this was an issue in the "earlier" machines, without mentioning at what point it was corrected at the factory.

As the previous paragraph shows, making a list of the parts used in a West Coast RGS won't be simple. Yet another example is that Bulletin G.21 says the gearbox "Internals are the same as Gold Star Clubmans (RRT2)," but that is incorrect for U.S. models, and G.21B doesn't correct it. The above supplementary parts list issued by BSA Inc. says the gearbox is ARRT, at least for East Coast models. Further, BSA changed gearbox designations near the end of pre-unit production so, depending on when the stamping changed, Service Sheet 93 says I either need an STBT or ARRT. Adding to the complications, a July 1963 chart shows all the following have the same internal gearing: ARRT., ASC, ASC.T and STD.2. That same chart shows the 650cc G/Star Twin (one of those many aliases the RGS hid behind) with an ARRT gearbox, but the 650cc G/Star Spitfire with an ASC. Despite the ferocious name of the machine, the latter gearbox has a non-needle-bearing layshaft. Anyway, while cases stamped with five different codes are functionally identical, only one is "correct." for a given machine.

In assembling information for 'The Gold Star Buyer's Companion' I've always ignored the RGS. However, now that I own an RGS myself (well, sort of…), I've gone back through my very large stack of factory and distributor literature to extract everything I can find on the U.S. models. Unfortunately, making sense of the resulting ~75 pages of RGS information is going to take a while.

You do realise that you have now committed to either a 7th ed of the Gold Star book now including the Rocket Gold Star or an addendum.

Don't hold your breath waiting for a new edition because it would be several years away, if then.

The official spin on that situation is in Service Bulletin No. 130, November 7, 1962 from BSA Inc.:

Royal Star 650
Some mechanical problems encountered in a few first year production models have been solved and taken care of.

When I were a lad just starting into bikes, the local BSA shop took on Yamaha because their line of light trail bikes was what people wanted, not B25s and D15s; and the sons of the shop owners were into competitive motocross, and didn't want to lose on a B44 if they could win on a DT-1. When I first starting going there, hanging around and (I'm sure) annoying them although they were very tolerant (I eventually bought four new motorcycles from them), there were rows of 650 BSAs in the showroom, all with cardboard under them, and a shop full of BSA warranty jobs.

When Yamaha came out with their XS1 650 in 1970, and the Yamahas were in the shop with the BSAs with NO cardboard under them and NO warranty jobs in the shop, the dealer dropped BSA like a hot potato. As long as people didn't know there was anything better, it was all fine; motorcycles "were just like that". Once the dealers and riders realized it wasn't true, that was it ....

Lannis

The following contains an unusually high density of information for a Britbike post, so non-RGS owners may want to avert their gaze.

The attached 2-page list definitely is a rough draft, work-in-progress at this point, but it already contains more information about the differences in the configurations of the various Rocket Gold Stars than I remember seeing anywhere else. If something you'd like to see is missing (e.g. tire width), chances are high it's because it isn't in any of the bulletins from which I extracted information. Also, I haven't created a list yet for the scrambler version, but will. I'd appreciate comments from RGS owners on the usefulness, or lack thereof, of the following, and for suggestions for changes, additions, subtractions, etc.

Some important notes on what follows:

-- I used Parts Service Bulletins G.A.10 (July 1960), G.21 (April 1962) and G.21B (October 1962), BSA Inc. supplementary list (February 21, 1963), Parts Service Bulletin N.8 (August 1963), and Service Sheet 93 (February 1963) to compile the attached list.

-- I've basically used the subject headings and order from factory bulletin G.21 dated April 1962.

-- G.21 contains section for when lighting is not fitted, and another that implies it was possible to have a machine without a saddle. I've not included those sections.

-- In all cases, the bulletins from which the following are extracted are supposed to list only the parts that are different than are in the standard Super Rocket and Gold Star Spares Catalogues.

-- I've only included the "important" components in the attached list, ignoring numerous nuts, bolts, washers, cables, etc.

-- G.21B dated October 1962 says everything on the West Coast U.S.A. machines is as was listed in G.21, except for the parts listed in G.21B.

-- In principle, the parts for West Coast machines listed in factory publication N.8 dated August 1963 should be the same as those in G.21B, but there are some additional parts as well as some differences. I've used square brackets to list the parts that are in N.8.

-- Factory publication G.A.10 dated July 1960 lists the parts for the upgraded clutch fitted to all Super Rockets after frame number GA7-9483, and thus to the later Rocket Gold Stars. I've not listed those parts separately, but only refer to G.A.10.

-- Blank spaces in a column mean those items weren't listed in a particular bulletin, which typically means that item is the same as in the UK-spec machine. However, there are exceptions, such as for the front forks. There are several fork configurations on the UK list, of which only one could be possible for a West or East Coast machine.

-- Even where one of the other bulletins contains the same part number as on G.21, I've included it in the attached list rather than leaving the space blank in the column.

-- At some point BSA added three extra digits to their part numbers, which are included in G.21 but not in the other bulletins. I've kept all the digits but, for example, 18642-6376 is the same as 42-6376.

-- Although what follows shows the differences between the three versions of machine, there are discrepancies. For example, N.8 says its list is the same as "standard" RGS specifications, except for what is on the list, but it shows the same 1-5/32" carburetor for the West Coast version as is on the "standard" G.21 list. Another example is the "standard" specification has a 23T engine sprocket, but the BSA Inc. list still lists that sprocket as if it differs from "standard."

-- N.8 has 9:1 pistons for West Coast Super Rockets, and a 1-5/32" carburetor. Although N.8 doesn't have an entry for Rocket Gold Star pistons, it does show the same 1-5/32" carburetor. Even though the column for West Coast pistons is blank in what follows, it's uncertain at this point whether they are 8.75:1 or 9:1.

A couple of observations. The added three digits to the front of part numbers started I think with the new frame designation of GA7 for the '60 model year. This coincides with the 90* change in the way the parts catalogs were read. Another note, as many probably know, the /xx after the part number is for the finish of the part. For example part number xx/xxx/03 is a part that has been chromed. Part number xx/xxxx/034 is a part that is painted Devon Red.


Bill B...

Bill, The bulletin doesn't show /3 for the West Coast mudguards, but it's difficult to imagine they weren't chrome as well. Do you know whether they were chrome or painted?

I've only seen chrome. This is out of parts catalog 00-5086 for "A" Group which I believe covers '60 to '62. It says for Spitfire Scrambler but doesn't mention anywhere Rocket Gold Star.


Bill B...


I should say page 60 of this catalog.

It's worth pointing out that Hap Alzina Dealer Bulletin No. 945, dated 15 June 1962, says "The current A10 Spitfire Scrambler is no longer in production and is superseded by the new 650cc Gold Star Twin Scrambler. All current Spitfire orders will be filled with the new model." Even though the name "Spitfire" was retained in much of the advertising literature, the models are different.

The Alzina bulletin further says that "Initial deliveries commence around July 20...". However, this proved somewhat optimistic since the first RGS Spitfire Scrambler wasn't despatched from the factory until October 17.

The fuel tank part number is not shown in the bulletins and seems to be one of the parts referred to Super Rocket or Gold Star.
The tank is not from the Gold Star, it differs in the position of the tap outlets.

Interesting also is the part number for the Spitfire Scrambler is the same as the West Coast road model.


Bill B...

The petrol pipes allow identifying at least the East Coast RGS as having a 2-gallon tank. Having part numbers, Spares Catalogues, and a lot of time should allow the dedicated researcher to identify from what other BSA models some of the RGS items were taken.

p.s.
I understand what you're saying, but under the petrol pipes in Bulletin G.21 it says "(2, 4, and 5 gall tanks are as Gold Star)", and in the BSA Inc. list it says "Gas Tanks and Fittings as Gold Star." Note that 41-8158 is the pipe for a 2-gal. tank, and the list I have in numerical order at the back of 'The Gold Star Buyer's Companion' shows a different pipe and 42-8056 for the Gold Star's 2-gal. tank itself. I don't have an assembled A10 engine in a frame to check, but it seems to me the forward-mounted right-hand tap on a Gold Star's tank wouldn't interfere with the head. In which case a longer petrol pipe would easily bring fuel from there to the carburetor, in which case it probably is a Gold Star tank.

addendum:
Scaling and aligning the photos from sales brochures, it certainly looks like the tanks on a RGS and Gold Star have their petcocks in the same location.

Here are pictures of the underside of an original Candy Red paint RGS tank and an original paint Gold Star tank. You can see they are identical other then the customized indent in the tunnel of RGS tank.


Bill B...

I will qualify my statement, the 4 gallon tank.