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Yep, forgot about the forks, 67 it is. With commonly replaced steel tank, I'd guess.

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Originally Posted by Steve Erickson
Yep, forgot about the forks, 67 it is. With commonly replaced steel tank, I'd guess.

I'm getting excited........tins at the painter and Ed V says the engine will be ready soon.

Who ever gets this bike after me will have the matching number engine to go with it.......but I'm not putting it in the frame. I've got an engine coming from Ed V for that purpose. The matching number engine has too much history for me and I want to just keep it where I can look at it.
John Healy, Ed V and Don Roe have all worked on it......you have to like that about it.
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 03/12/23 5:50 pm.

Gordon Gray in NC, USA........"Did you shoot our car?"


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Just to add more confusion, I looked at the old Bacon Bible. Unfortunately b&w pictures, but it seems to show the C25 tanks as (possibly?) solid color, and the side panels with white inserts (and black pinstriping). Dunno if blue or orange...?

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Originally Posted by Steve Erickson
Just to add more confusion, I looked at the old Bacon Bible. Unfortunately b&w pictures, but it seems to show the C25 tanks as (possibly?) solid color, and the side panels with white inserts (and black pinstriping). Dunno if blue or orange...?

Rupert's engine manual has on page 6 a black and white of what he calls "one of the small number of orange ones..."

Hard to tell BUT to me it looks like the Ivory is across the top of the tank ( like all the fiberglass tanks I have here) and a solid orange side cover.

I have a photo around here somewhere that has the orange side covers with the Ivory inserts........hard to look at IMO.

All that said........there are a lot of photos showing an all Orange tank......with the small plastic badge (1967) This poor thing has a lame seat recover and painted fenders????

[Linked Image]

I don't know if you remember but the NOS 67 tank I got from British Only YEARS ago..........was a small plastic badge 250 tank.......in red?????? As far as I know that was never an option for the 250......but I have one. The reason you can tell it was for a 250 is the placement of the petcocks. BOTH are pointing straight down......the rest of my fiberglass tanks (red or blue) have one pointing straight down and one angled. With them both pointing down one fouls on a B44's engine.....but not on the 250. I put it off as an early tank and BSA changed gears before production. Someone said the fiberglass tanks were laid up at the workers home......not knowing that process I'm not sure if it could have just been a human error???? Anyway I purchased it as a B44 NOS 1967 tank........bottom line it wouldn't work on a 441.

I thought I let that tank go......but I still have it.

Good ole BSA.........keeping ya guessing

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 03/12/23 8:24 pm.

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Interestingly, Bacon's description of C25 doesn't mention blue, only Bushfire Orange. Sez petrol tank is Bushfire Orange and white with black separating line. Bushfire Orange side cover and oil tank (no white or striping mentioned). Also interesting... chrome or white mudguards.

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Originally Posted by Steve Erickson
Interestingly, Bacon's description of C25 doesn't mention blue, only Bushfire Orange. Sez petrol tank is Bushfire Orange and white with black separating line. Bushfire Orange side cover and oil tank (no white or striping mentioned). Also interesting... chrome or white mudguards.

Hard to imagine Nutley Blue not being an option in the UK in 1967????


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Just to confuse matters further, regarding the UK registration suffix, there was actually a cross over period from Jan 67, where instead of the suffix covering the whole year (Jan - Dec), it ran Jan 67 to July 67 (E suffix) and then Aug 67 to July 68 (F suffix).

So a 1967 model could have had an E or F suffix, see list below.

Jan 1966 - Dec 1966 - D
Jan 1967 - Jul 1967 - E
Aug 1967 - Jul 1968 - F
Aug 1968 - Jul 1969 - G

Since the F suffix covered Aug 67 to July 68, there is only a 50% chance or less that the bike was made in 67.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
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Originally Posted by Steve Erickson
Interestingly, Bacon's description of C25 doesn't mention blue, only Bushfire Orange. Sez petrol tank is Bushfire Orange and white with black separating line. Bushfire Orange side cover and oil tank (no white or striping mentioned). Also interesting... chrome or white mudguards.

I thought I didn't have (or never had) Bacon's book........but I do, I just forgot. I haven't looked at it in over 20 years. I'm going to have to pull it out and confuse myself even more.

For a 1967 BSA Barracuda (UK only) offered in Bushfire Orange

1. Pin stripes or not on fuel tank?
2. Pin stripes on the oil tank and sidecover?
3. If it had pin stripes, what color?
4. Color scheme for the tank?
5. Color scheme for the oil tank and side covers?
6. Was there an Bushfire Orange option offered in 1968?
7. If there was......1-5 all over again

I know "It's only a Victor"

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I just checked the colors on the RS Paints website Here and found this info for C25's and B25's :-

C25 - 1967, Nutley Blue or Bush-fire Orange, both with Ivory panel
B25 - 1966, 1967 & 1968, Nutley Blue with Ivory panel
B25 - 1969 & 1970 Flamboyant Aircraft Blue (candy) or Bush-fire Orange

Assuming the website is correct, a C25 from 1967 could be either Nutley Blue or Bush-fire Orange, both with Ivory panels.

The B25's from 1966 to 1968 were all Nutley Blue with Ivory panels, and in 1969 to 1970 they were Flamboyant Aircraft Blue (candy) or Bush-fire Orange, but no ivory panel.

There is no mention of pin-striping.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
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Don't go by Bacon's book for US bikes, he wrote them based on UK sales literature and unless some US literature leaked out he ignored US variations.

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Originally Posted by kommando
Don't go by Bacon's book for US bikes, he wrote them based on UK sales literature and unless some US literature leaked out he ignored US variations.

That’s the reason I haven’t picked it up in over 20 years.


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I refer to it as "Bible" with tongue in cheek... Bacon's Singles Restoration has some information I've never found elsewhere, and has proved valuable in that respect. But to consider it the final word on anything would be a mistake. And yes, his American references are infrequent, and he usually doesn't distinguish them as such. It is just one component in figuring out BSA mysteries...

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I still need to drag that book out and look through it again. I got lazy when Rupert’s came out…..but it’s not 100% accurate either.

I’m finding lots of photos of later metal sculptured tanks in all orange and wonder if that wasn’t an option in the UK for the early 1968 bikes? In the US we got fiberglass for 68.

1969 saw the exported (US) 250 in Orange……BSA still had a soft spot for the color. I believe it ran over to one of the OIF A65s too.

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 03/14/23 11:36 am.

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Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
I still need to drag that book out and look through it again. I got lazy when Rupert’s came out…..but it’s not 100% accurate either.

I’m finding lots of photos of later metal sculptured tanks in all orange and wonder if that wasn’t an option in the UK for the early 1968 bikes? In the US we got fiberglass for 68.

1969 saw the exported (US) 250 in Orange……BSA still had a soft spot for the color. I believe it ran over to one of the OIF A65s too.

OIF A65s were a different colour again, the early press/catalogue images were more red in hue than orange, though the 71s were more a bright metalic orange when you start looking at original parts.

I've heard it said that the bushfire orange used on the C25, the US 69' B25 and the Bantam Bushman was a mixture of Post-office red and AA yellow. - don't know how much truth is in that but I like the story.


Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...

Now lets all have a beer!

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

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Originally Posted by Allan G
Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
I still need to drag that book out and look through it again. I got lazy when Rupert’s came out…..but it’s not 100% accurate either.

I’m finding lots of photos of later metal sculptured tanks in all orange and wonder if that wasn’t an option in the UK for the early 1968 bikes? In the US we got fiberglass for 68.

1969 saw the exported (US) 250 in Orange……BSA still had a soft spot for the color. I believe it ran over to one of the OIF A65s too.

OIF A65s were a different colour again, the early press/catalogue images were more red in hue than orange, though the 71s were more a bright metalic orange when you start looking at original parts.

I've heard it said that the bushfire orange used on the C25, the US 69' B25 and the Bantam Bushman was a mixture of Post-office red and AA yellow. - don't know how much truth is in that but I like the story.

My “new” painter knows nothing about Brit bikes. He told me he’d need a year and model so he could come up with the paint numbers. I just kinda laughed and told him to just let his paint supplier use their tools for the match……nobody’s going to tell me it’s not correct. He’s got a good set of 69 side covers for the Orange and a 67 (Nutely Blue) tank to get the layout and to be able to match the Ivory. Not sure yet but I might get him to re-paint an early fiberglass tank for the shelf.

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 03/14/23 1:02 pm.

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By the way, if you've found a good competent painter dude, you might share his contact info with a PM unless that's like giving away a prime fishing spot.....

All mine are retired or gone away from us ...

Lannis


I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.
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Originally Posted by Lannis
By the way, if you've found a good competent painter dude, you might share his contact info with a PM unless that's like giving away a prime fishing spot.....

All mine are retired or gone away from us ...

Lannis


Lannis......I'm going on a motorcycling friend's recommendation. So far, I like the guy. Young with a good attitude. Let me see how this goes and I'll report back. My friend gave me three names........this one was the fellow "most likely to finish the job this year"

I feel your pain......Having Don around spoiled me. I'm holding my breath.


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Originally Posted by Steve Erickson
I refer to it as "Bible" with tongue in cheek... Bacon's Singles Restoration has some information I've never found elsewhere, and has proved valuable in that respect. But to consider it the final word on anything would be a mistake. And yes, his American references are infrequent, and he usually doesn't distinguish them as such. It is just one component in figuring out BSA mysteries...

That is because after his first few books the rest were ghost written.
Basically they are nothing more than the BSA publicity material that was sent to magazine he worked for.
he kept everything that came across his desk and apparently every thing that got tossed out by others as well
Then rearranged the bumph into a book
Every now & then period factory literature comes up and large swathes of them is to be found verbatum in his publications which by now is several hundred books .
So as the factory did not send a UK magazine the USA publicity packs, almost no USA specific is to be found in any of his books .
Also what the factory sent out pre season & what was actually made were often not exactly the same so there are a lot of these types of errors in all of his publications .
The only thing worthwile in his restorations books are the appendixes abut again a lot of what is there is wrong because it was what they were told was going to happen & not what actually did happen.
In particular the finishes as there are the UK only finishes not the US, ( east or west ) , Canada, Australia ,Europe or general export finishes all of which were often different .


Bike Beesa
Trevor
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Update…..painter got some free time and did the body work on the tank (no filler) and side covers……I don’t want to jinx it but they look great. He has the paint in and I got to okay it too. So it won’t take as long as I thought.

I talked with him a bit about my badges and he’s going to do a (tank matching) set…..I know that’s not how BSA did it but…..
He told me how he sometimes paints emblems/badges and I’m excited to see how these turn out. His “method” is something I hadn’t thought about so if it works….I could try a set myself.


Note to CBS……even though you’re all the way on the other side of the country….so far your company can beat any other when it comes to FAST SHIPPING..(IME)…usually it really doesn’t matter for the stuff I do but I’d like to hand him those badges early next week…..so you are my go to guys!!!!



Photos to follow

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 03/30/23 2:25 pm.

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