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Originally Posted by Stuart Kirk
BSA had breakage problems with that small journal crank your rods went with. Their cure at the time was to roll harden the radii. They then went to a larger journal. I'm wondering how good of an idea a smaller journal crank really is?

in my understanding when saying "small journal crank" that refers to the diameter of the TS Main journal. I have the small journal crank in my A10 and the TS journal is smaller than the so called large journal cranks on latter A10s ( which were the same diameter as the A65 )


I recall figuring this out when i had to rebuild my A10 after a CATASTROPIC failure ! ( Yep blew one case to bits etc) , ... I was pissed off because the TS bush i needed was smaller diameter than the A65 ones i have And the BE's are different as well

But from an engineering perspective good practice would dictate denominating the cranks by the most obvious and easiest to measure part.

I believe that the alleged breakage problems on the Small J s are more likely due to young guys ringing the tripe out of them whilst unable to afford oil changes.

They , the Small Js , are sound design and excellent material.


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The early a10 cranks had smaller big end journals than the late ones as well.
They were not as strong.The timing side main was of little consequence.

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Another example was to bore t140 rods to use in a65's as they were a steel capped rod
and were in fact the same forging as the very late and unobtainable a65/a70 rods. They
were a very strong rod and allowed a10 cranks to be run without fouling on the cases.

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Here's a link to chapter 22 of BSA development engineer Roland Pikes memoirs where he talks about the early A10 cranks with the small rod journal and how they routinely broke out on the track, and a solution. It starts with the 4th paragraph down but the rest of it is worth reading as well.

https://beezagent.blogspot.com/2009/01/roland-pike-autobiography-chapter-22.html

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Originally Posted by NickL
Originally Posted by Allan G
Originally Posted by Stuart Kirk
BSA had breakage problems with that small journal crank your rods went with. Their cure at the time was to roll harden the radii. They then went to a larger journal. I'm wondering how good of an idea a smaller journal crank really is?


Im wondering if the correct rods are not available for the crank in question?

You can spend a lot of money bodging other parts to fit a something else.. If its done right then it can work, but if its being done in a way that "saves money" then your more likely to end up with a crankcase with a newly installed breather window.


I totally disagree, i am one of the blokes who puts a limited worth on these old clunkers and therefore
will use what's available to sort them out. It doesn't mean bodging stuff but different people have different
points of view. Many race motors are prepared using stuff from different makers, does that make them
all bodge ups? Blokes have used different cranks and rods in different cases for donkey's years with
very successful results both on the track and on the road. It's one of the attractions of running these old crates.

Haven't you just put an A10 crank into an A65 Allan? Using aftermarket rods etc?

Sorry Nick, probably not my best choice of words and no offence meant.

My thoughts we could the poster no find the correct rods for the bike? There are a lot of people who buy parts for tuppence and quite literally bodge them together, resizing the rod big ends to a new size altogether is what crossed my mind.

A lot of late A10 parts have similar/identical dimensions to those used on the A65, so using A10 rods with A70 pistons on an A65 crank would work, as would B44 pistons on A65 rods on an A10 crank in A65 crank cases also work. But with all those things the key dimensions are the same, it just takes someone with better engineering skills than mine to do all the measurements and machining. Clever things have been done with Norton cranks too but a lot of this is outside my skill set.

There’s nothing wrong with aftermarket parts. I always use aftermarket rods, whether from MAP or Thunder engineering (both good rod makers)

But as I said earlier, there are people like yourself, Mark Parker and others that can cross match parts from other brands and models and make something bloody fantastic. There are others that create a time bomb from a similar selection of parts and probably waste more money doing it.

As this topic is asking about Triumph Rods, it might be worth the OP contacting thunder engineering. He’s a big triumph guy and will likely make the OP what ever he wants if the dimensions are not standard. If the crank has been ground too far then it’ll probably be worth looking for a new crank.

When I bought the A10 rods from Thunder for my long rod A65, (and this rings true with HillBilly’s comment above, I asked Steve for some 6.5” rods, the A10 rods were a fraction smaller and I ended up settling for those because I figured I could shave that few thou off the barrel instead.


I’m also one who has a good collection of spares with the intention of turning 90% of them into something a bit unique. I think a 90° 500cc twin carb will be fun!


I digress…


Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...

Now lets all have a beer!

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Originally Posted by Stuart Kirk
Here's a link to chapter 22 of BSA development engineer Roland Pikes memoirs where he talks about the early A10 cranks with the small rod journal and how they routinely broke out on the track, and a solution. It starts with the 4th paragraph down but the rest of it is worth reading as well.

https://beezagent.blogspot.com/2009/01/roland-pike-autobiography-chapter-22.html

the key words are "out on the track," ...

you ring anything hard enough for long enough and it will let go


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Late comer, why not just have the crank welded and ground for the larger big end A65 rods?

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Oh and as an afterthought regarding the "weak" small journal crank.

When i dropped a rod at 60mph and blew one half of the cases to bits ( fortunately not the side with the numbers) bending the valves, piston one side , obliterating the "returns" where the barrel goes inside the case etc ( i was real quick on the clutch so didnt take a dive)

I pulled it down and the crank was FINE ! I was able to burnish off the alloy which had "cold welded" to one of the BE journals and it was still in spec, I didnt even have to get it ground.

That would have been a huge shock load on the crank ya know but it survived.... so i dont consider that indicates weakness.

Since the big bang i have put around 5k miles on it .


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
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Originally Posted by Ignoramus
.....the key words are "out on the track," ...,,,you ring anything hard enough for long enough and it will let go
Apparently, according to Pike, 3 hours of track time was enough.

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Originally Posted by DMadigan
Late comer, why not just have the crank welded and ground for the larger big end A65 rods?
Why not just buy the proper rods for your Triumph?


Keep your head up and your stick on the ice.

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