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I'm at the stage where I've got the proper center-removal tool installed, however it's not budged so far and I'm reluctant to tighten the bolt any more. I've given the head several sharp raps with a copper hammer.
The 3 screws on the clutch plate (if it needs to come off) have deformed heads so it looks as though I'll have to carefully drill them off.
(I think there are other threads on this but can't seem to locate them via the search box)
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Yes, was thinking that, must remove the cover first to remove the rubbers?
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Shouldn’t have to do that……..unless you really turn up the heat.
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The 3 spring hub units are often not worth trying to repair, infact about half the parts alone cost more than a new hub.
Tighten the larger part of the extractor up as much as you can without stripping the threads, then tighten the centre bolt so that it is showing it should come off - even though it isnt. then give it a solid - positive whack with a 2lb hammer. it should fall straight off. should only need 1 whack... you could try heat as well, spray some WD40 around the area etc. but the whack method if done properly has never let me down.... Just dont miss!
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No success so far, and I've hit it with a lump hammer! I'll continue tomorrow, I have a good heat gun so I can heat up the center.
Last edited by semprini; 02/03/23 9:54 am.
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im confused. I fail to see how the center (hub) with the rubbers in it for a cush drive could be a problem to remove as a unit. Are we talking about the same thing here? If you are talking about the spigot that keys onto the main shaft that's a different matter
how about a pic of the offending part so we all get on the same page
seems to be advice given with 2 distinct offending parts
please clarify what part you are talking about with pics
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Pull the clutch inner off of the hub first, you can do that by using a piece of steel
with 2 holes in it jacking 2 of the adjuster screws against the mainshaft.
Once the clutch centre is off you can heat the hub up and have another go with
the centre tool. I got fed up with those tools and made a special one years ago
that clamped onto the ridge/space in the hub splines, this was done as those tools
kept stripping the threads and as it was normally done at race tracks to repair
gearboxes, i didn;t have heat etc available.
Once the centre is pulled off the hub, you can use a home made puller or just
a sykes type with a few mods.
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Links to previous threads. https://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8085https://britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/441336/a65-clutch-basket-removalhttps://www.google.com/search?q=Britbike+forum+a65+clutch+centre&client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=AJOqlzWc5h5x6Cmz_sBzkyGlzl_aHfjZaA%3A1675422174712&ei=3uncY7uYK4vrgQbokqWgCQ&ved=0ahUKEwi7_8n8mfn8AhWLdcAKHWhJCZQQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=Britbike+forum+a65+clutch+centre&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzIFCCEQoAEyBQghEKABOggIABCiBBCwAzoKCAAQHhCiBBCwAzoHCCMQsAIQJzoICCEQoAEQwwQ6CgghEKABEMMEEAo6BAgjECc6BwghEKABEApKBAhBGAFKBAhGGABQmhBY7z5ggk1oAXAAeACAAZgCiAGHDpIBBjEuMTEuMZgBAKABAcgBBMABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp
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im confused. I fail to see how the center (hub) with the rubbers in it for a cush drive could be a problem to remove as a unit. Are we talking about the same thing here? If you are talking about the spigot that keys onto the main shaft that's a different matter
how about a pic of the offending part so we all get on the same page
seems to be advice given with 2 distinct offending parts
please clarify what part you are talking about with pics I would have liked to remove the cover plate and rubbers so I can get some heat where I want it, but the previous owner appears to have used some kind of cheese-head type (heads stood proud of the cover), the slots so deformed I drilled off the heads. It's still difficult to obtain any purchase on the cover, perhaps a bit more careful drilling is required, unless I can remove the unit with the cover still on. I'll resume the attempt with some heat this afternoon (UK time) EDIT- some confusion over these screws, pics I've seen have been both cheese head and CSK. https://i.imgur.com/MJ8rfFl.jpeg![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/MJ8rfFl.jpeg)
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The centre drum with the rubbers in it should just pull off the splines, it may be snug but not excessively tight. The puller is required to remove the hub from it's taper
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Ah! I used my 2-legged puller and the drum came off the splines, so I can now apply heat if required.
My intention was to examine the gearbox sprocket, check the rubbers, the rotor and replace the shaft oil seal whilst it's down. Also noticed that the distance piece on the tensioner pivot is missing, I can make one of those.
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The centre drum with the rubbers in it should just pull off the splines, it may be snug but not excessively tight. The puller is required to remove the hub from it's taper they say a pic is worth 1000 words ... I simply couldn't see why there was a problem Andy . Unless the splines are totally deformed ( buggered) semprini ok just be carefull with how much heat you use ... dont heat it so much u will burn the oil seal on the mainshaft where it comes out of the box... u can replace them in situ but its a pig tighten the puller as hard as u dare , apply heat EVENLY and try a sudden shock load to the bolt head ( in the axis of the shaft) and it should let go ... my guess is someone plastered the taper with hyper strength Loctite or similar ,,, good luck if u have a slide hammer that would be ideal ... grab under the bolt head of the puller and give it a cosh . but chances are if u have it under tension it will pop when u start heating.
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ok, it's a job for the morning (UK time). I did get the hub (after the drum was removed) hottish using a heat gun, but it didn't budge. I've got a butane torch so I'll try that, with some wetted rag tucked behingd the back. The rotor and engine sprocket came off easily.
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It finally yielded to the butane flame and a very big whack with the club hammer! Is the gearbox sprocket worth changing, I only do a very small mileage during the summer season. The oil seal behind the clutch is split on the edges, it appears to be 1 3/8" diam, and the shaft size is around 0.910". Also, would it be worth changing the crank seal while it's down? https://i.imgur.com/YBK4qoJ.jpeg![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/YBK4qoJ.jpeg)
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......Is the gearbox sprocket worth changing, I only do a very small mileage during the summer season.
The oil seal behind the clutch is split on the edges, ....... My take on all that is to replace all the seals, including the one behind the gearbox sprocket. Since you have already found one seriously failed seal, it's reasonable to think the one farther in is worn out too. You can also get a better look at the gearbox sprocket and decide if it needs replacing, with either the same tooth count or different, depending on the type of riding you do.
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that sprocket has 1000s of miles left in it ... its actually pretty good ( by our standards) . Definitely change the seals if u can get at them while its down
"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
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There should be a flat spot at the end of each tooth on the gearbox sprocket. If the teeth are sharpened to a point, or if they are "scooped", then the sprocket should be replaced. (Same goes for the wheel sprocket BTW.)
Mark Z
'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
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Next job is to change the drive-side seals.
Where is the chain oiler, Should it be visible inside the primary case at the right?
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The chain dribbler is on the rear chain side of the primary case. The 1/4" screw that is in line with the swingarm bolt has a small hole to it from inside the chain case. A banjo piece sits on the rear chain side and dribbles oil on to the rear chain and all over everything else.
If you want to lube the rear chain, clean and fill the small hole with sealer and remove the banjo dribbler. Soak the chain down with WD-40 and wipe off the dirt then spray a wax type lube (Chainwax) on the chain, let dry and wipe off excess. The tacky types just collect dirt.
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Ah yes, I sees it now, crafty! I will seal it, perhaps it's already blocked as I've not really noticed oil on the chain.
I have got both WD chain lube and the wax, so I'll wash off the sticky lube as suggested and revert to just the wax. In theory though, injecting the lube (via the straw) just between the side plates into the inner bushes seems a good idea?
You can see the WD lube residue on my sprocket photo above.
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WD 40 is a very poor lubricant, not at all suited to chain lubrication, cleaning yes, long term lube, no.
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WD 40 is a very poor lubricant, not at all suited to chain lubrication, cleaning yes, long term lube, no. The WD40 brand name also makes a chain lube, I doubt the true meaning (or formulation data) of "WD40" has anything to do with it.
Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...
Now lets all have a beer!
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I did not say WD-40 was a chain lube. It works very well for cleaning the chain and will remove oil and grease as well as the dirt.
The chain wax only does any good if it gets between the rollers and pins. Spraying it on the side plates or surface of the rollers is just wasting it.
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Just to clarify what I meant;
WD-40 Chain Lube is the tacky black stuff which I'm phasing out. It dispenses as a thin liquid which can penetrate into the inner bush if it is injected accurately into the small gap, then transforms itself into a thick grease which does seems to be ideal for lubing the bush.
WD-40 maintainance spray of course is the general light lube/penetrating spray, I use similar products which are usually much cheaper.
Not sure whether the wax version penetrates into the bushes and rollers but I'll see, although each link needs to be done individually.
There was a product on the market years ago called Linklyfe which was a type of graphited grease, you placed the coiled chain in a tin of the product and cooked it on the stove, much to the annoyance of wife!
Last edited by semprini; 02/07/23 9:15 am.
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WD 40 was originally developed by NASA as a rust inhibitor ... i do not ( like D Madigan and Gavin Ester ) believe it would be much use on motorcycle chains other than for cleaning , just too light D Madigan is a very accomplished engineer going by some of his work he has posted pics of ... I would listen to that guy
. I use that Tallow based spray which is carried by solvent and kind of bubbles its way in EXCELLENT stuff IMO ... the poor mans version is plain old sticky chain bar oil for chain saws applied with a brush
Myself . im just an IGNORAMUS that doesn't know much about motorcycles BUT i do know a lot about engineering ( I was a production man) I wouldn't have the patience to produce one off or small run stuff like some ... but lets face it all motorbikes are is a whole lot of metal components bolted together
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WD 40 was originally developed by NASA as a rust inhibitor ... i do not ( like D Madigan and Gavin Ester ) believe it would be much use on motorcycle chains other than for cleaning , just too light D Madigan is a very accomplished engineer going by some of his work he has posted pics of ... I would listen to that guy
. I use that Tallow based spray which is carried by solvent and kind of bubbles its way in EXCELLENT stuff IMO ... the poor mans version is plain old sticky chain bar oil for chain saws applied with a brush
Myself . im just an IGNORAMUS that doesn't know much about motorcycles BUT i do know a lot about engineering ( I was a production man) I wouldn't have the patience to produce one off or small run stuff like some ... but lets face it all motorbikes are is a whole lot of metal components bolted together I think you will find it was developed by the US Navy WD40 = Water Dispersant No 40
Bike Beesa
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WD40 is a good rust remover, but lousy as a protectant or inhibitor. It also works the trick on frozen car door gaskets (I just discovered this a couple of weeks ago when my car doors were frozen shut after a rain storm and subsequent extreme temperature drop).
I've tried all the chain lubes, PJ1, Silkoline, etc., and I've had the best results with Chainwax (brand name) - I guess this is what Ig referred to as "tallow based"; it smells like wax crayons. I've heard that baking the chain in grease is the ultimate, but I'm too lazy to do that.
Mark Z
'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
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[quote=Ignoramus]WD 40 was originally developed by NASA as a rust inhibitor ... i do not ( like D Madigan and Gavin Ester ) believe it would be much use on motorcycle chains other than for cleaning , just too light D Madigan is a very accomplished engineer going by some of his work he has posted pics of ... I would listen to that guy
. I use that Tallow based spray which is carried by solvent and kind of bubbles its way in EXCELLENT stuff IMO ... the poor mans version is plain old sticky chain bar oil for chain saws applied with a brush
Myself . im just an IGNORAMUS that doesn't know much about motorcycles BUT i do know a lot about engineering ( I was a production man) I wouldn't have the patience to produce one off or small run stuff like some ... but lets face it all motorbikes are is a whole lot of metal components bolted together Wm20 said: "I think you will find it was developed by the US Navy WD40 = Water Dispersant No 40" Mr Google said: WD-40 was originally used by NASA to prevent rust and corrosion on spacecraft that launched the first satellites into orbit. It was invented by Georgia Tech engineering graduate Reginald Fleet and a team of scientists, and today only a handful of people still know the exact formula.
"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
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Before I get complaints about allowing threads to go off topic. It’s worth remembering that the original reference to WD40 was to their brand of chain lubricant and not using conventional WD40 as chain lube.
Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...
Now lets all have a beer!
68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)
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Some of us are old enough to remember that it was originally called "Rocket WD 40"!
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Before I get complaints about allowing threads to go off topic. It’s worth remembering that the original reference to WD40 was to their brand of chain lubricant and not using conventional WD40 as chain lube. i didnt know WD40 made an actual chain lube ...never seen it here... there are lots of thing we dont get here . too small market i guess .
"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
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I never realized that WD40 have expanded their range and you can now get a variety of maintenance sprays including specialist chain cleaner, specialist chain lubricant and specialist chain wax. see pic below and the link to all WD40 products is Here. I've been using a tub link life of graphite grease boiled on the stove with the chain previously cleaned in petrol/paraffin, this method seems to work well but I might try and use the WD40 sprays.
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The large thrust washer behind the chainwheel, is it the copper side facing the gearbox? That's how it was when I removed it.
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There are supposed to be two "dogs" at the edge of the thrust washer, 180 degrees apart, that fit into holes in the clutch center. If your thrust washer doesn't have those, they may have worn or broken off.
Mark Z
'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
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Some replacement thrusts don't have those dogs or tabs. His may not.
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It's a plain washer, the clutch centre is a later type that must have been replaced (engine is a '68) as it has the 3 bolts instead of 6 screws.
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The large thrust washer behind the chainwheel, is it the copper side facing the gearbox? That's how it was when I removed it. Normally, the thrust washer's copper side faces the basket. At least for the 'proper' washers with the tangs hooked in the hub that cannot spin freely. If the washer has no tangs I'd say it does not matter as it will spin anyhow. Cheers! Phil
Best regards
Phil
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ok thanks, you know how it is when presented with these things on assembly, there was no info online as far as I could find and I wouldn't trust previous owner!
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The large thrust washer behind the chainwheel, is it the copper side facing the gearbox? That's how it was when I removed it. Normally, the thrust washer's copper side faces the basket. At least for the 'proper' washers with the tangs hooked in the hub that cannot spin freely. If the washer has no tangs I'd say it does not matter as it will spin anyhow. Cheers! Phil correct regarding "At least for the 'proper' washers with the tangs hooked in the hub that cannot spin freely". however i must question "If the washer has no tangs I'd say it does not matter as it will spin anyhow." it is a thrust washer and as such it provides a bearing face . it is intended to absorb "occasional" loading (where things move about due to design clearance etc ) thus i contend that the copper face must face the bit that floats ie the basket
"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
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It's a plain washer, the clutch centre is a later type that must have been replaced (engine is a '68) as it has the 3 bolts instead of 6 screws. Just to clear up a bit of terminology confusion, I've noticed that in Triumph talk, the cush drive is referred to as the clutch center, and the thingy that anchors the chainwheel the clutch hub, whereas in BSA talk, it's just the opposite; the cush drive is the clutch hub, and what I like to call the clutch arbor is the clutch center. Anyway, in my reply when I mentioned holes in the clutch center, I was referring to the arbor, the piece that supports the chainwheel. But if your thrust washer has no tangs (a better term) then the point is moot. My recollection is that the copper (brass?) side is toward the chainwheel.
Mark Z
'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
2007 Triumph Bonneville Black
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Joined: Oct 2007
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on some stupid government form ages ago I had to say if I spoke any other ( than English) languages.
Naturally not wanting to be obtuse I said American English. The drone behind the desk entered it onto the computer without even blinking . DANG
"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
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Joined: Aug 2001
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Ah, clutch SLEEVE! And cush drive = clutch centre. I agree, the factory Spares book should be the standard.
Mark Z
'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
2007 Triumph Bonneville Black
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it is a thrust washer and as such it provides a bearing face . it is intended to absorb "occasional" loading (where things move about due to design clearance etc )
thus i contend that the copper face must face the bit that floats ie the basket Understood, just for the sake of thinking less, I do mount any thrust washer at the particular spot copper side towards the basket. On the other hand, I had asked myself when entering my previous posting whether this is really necessary. The tang-less washer will spin anyhow, so I was was not sure if it mattered. Thanks for sorting me out on that matter and sorry for any confusion created. Cheers! Phil
Best regards
Phil
Celle/Germany
'62 A 65 Star (disassembled)
'69 A 65 Lightning
'71 A 65 Firebird
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Copper side to the chainwheel/basket is normal. More or less a spacer between the hub and chainwheel that floats but they do wear out from slipping the clutch. When the clutch is fully engaged it is clamped in place by the clutch springs. It limits how much the chainwheel wobbles about when the clutch is lifted.
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later-larger inside-diameter Thrust-washers have a bevel on one-side of larger-interior hole . ( chamfer is always on the steel side ) ( whats this for ?) The later and earlier hubs are interchangeable , but washers for each type at not ( not meant to be interchangeable anyway ) the later washer should hit snugly enough at the center , that if put on upside down , the washer won't fully seat because the hubs interior shoulder isn't square cut at the bottom . ( its harder to machine a square shoulder and its would be weaker ) ![[Linked Image from feked.com]](https://www.feked.com/images/detailed/162/fkclutch268uk_c.jpg) with the bi-metal copper-Steel washer ... the chamfer on the steel side is supposed to mate with the chamfer machined on the clutch Hub . ... making the copper side face outward .
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