Britbike forum Forums British motorcycles in general British modified/specials Rickman Metisse or similar?

I know there are a number of Rickman Metisse frame builders in the UK but I wondered if there were any in the US? or any other frame builders building for Triumph and BSA engines here in the US? I have a couple of Triumph engines and am thinking I would like to bulld a semi custom bike using one of them.

Only Rickman builds the Metisse frame, others are copies.

I don't know of any replicators in the states, but there may be one or more (I just don't know about them)

There are several big names that make racing frames in the states, Champion and Redline; but I recommend Framecrafters. They build specifically for classic bikes, roadrace and all modes of off-road.

Well,

Metisse make bikes and parts, and Rickman also make them.
There was some kind of deal that allows both to claim “heritage”

Wotcher Gott , triople ortwin .

o.k. Theres ALL the Dirt Track racing frames , redline , Trackmaster cetra etc .

recently a Desert Race Trackmaster Norton came up on fleabay ,

If you spend the time , Theres a fair bit of info on Triple Dirt Track , Nixon , rice , aldana and others .
Their hangup was they did - Case dragged if you got crossed up .
I think Mr Rices nose job was a sticking throttle .

Theres early & late Rob north types - hi Boy & Low boy .
Some of the Dirt Track jobs were definately the earlier type ,
These are clean machines , look at the pipes .

Was a U S Mag with a bored & stroked 975 triple dirt track style road machine - article .
More comfortable than the teeth in the fuel cap , if your not doing 150 mph .
Theres also the SEELY frames , r ound 1970 was a spate of Triumph twin seeley / rickman / framed road racers . as in RACE bikes .

HOWEVER ,
If its a TWIN , a 1968 on frame , dialed in , isnt wanting for much .
Thruxtoniseing or ' T.T. ' ing it , will get something sufficently stroppy & competant .

Basically 1 1/8 ports and 1 3/16 carbs . These'd go good on a Triple Too .

IF its a Pre Unit , the 61 / 62 Frame has untapped depths , google 1961 Thruxton Triumph T 120 .

Were a number of Seely custom ISDT type / Desert Race chassis , like wot Bud Edkins Flogged , if your not 6 foot .

====================================================================================
essentially , the Triumph 1971 on frame is a overweight mild steel copy of the Trackmaster etc .
Have a glare at the Vetter Custom Triumph Twin Tin . ( T 160 ish tank . Some of its odd , but ' The Look ' is there .

' Bare Bones ' whichy is a Stock TR6SS / T 120 C look , anyway .
People have put Triples in the Factory Oil Tube Frames .
And Twins in earlier T150 & R III chassis .

Not these recent custom decorated mix'n'match megasnot absurdities .

I went searching for an American frame maker a few years ago. Framecrafters did come up, rather expensive, talked to few others nothing panned out. In the UK Terry Weedy makes a Rickman frame, Wasp, who is making two frames for me also does either their proprietary RT 3 frame or a Rickman MK III, IV, and Roadracer. Unfortunately I've been waiting two years this February for my frames- Covid shut downs, a shop relocation, and both Mark and Albert getting Covid have all contributed to the delay. I hope to get them sometime in February, fingers crossed.

Cheney Frames Sales & Service
13359 N Hwy 183
Suite 406 - PMB 180
Austin, TX 78750
(512) 751-8811
Carlyn K. Cheney
[email protected]

This a good site for vintage flat track VFT website

15 minute drive for me...

Pete, Thanks for the feedback ... I particularly like the Metisse but the inability to easily rectify any problems which might arise isn't ideal. I would be very interested in the Wasp quality when you receive them, and also if you are planning to register them for street use, how you handle the VIN and registration. Thanks

Pete, Thanks for the feedback ... I particularly like the Metisse but the inability to easily rectify any problems which might arise isn't ideal. I would be very interested in the Wasp quality when you receive them, and also if you are planning to register them for street use, how you handle the VIN and registration. Thanks

Rody, What kinds of things are you concerned about re a Metisse? You have to supply the motor, front end, rear suspension, wiring, wheels, and odds and ends. My Wasp frames will be the same. I am used to working on stuff and fabricating.

I will be getting certificates of origin with both frames. My Triumph has a current NY street registration- I can use that or the cert. The Ariel Square Four has no paperwork- I will probably use the certificate of origin. A Vermont registration might be in the cards if New York gives me a hassle on the Sq 4 but I think it will work.
See Grand Paul's write-up on getting a Vermont Reg. in the British motorcycles in general section

Hi Pete, As I have no fabrication skills (or equipment) I am wondering if I can assemble a Metisse from parts without having to fabricate or rework parts?

I have disassembled and re assembled a T120R and a T100R, so have some limited skills including wiring, forks, carbs etc., but if I have to weld, cut, turn on a lathe etc then that will be difficult for me to achieve.

As regards getting a bike registered I am not sure whether getting a Frame/VIN number stamped will make it easier or more difficult. RI isn't easy to deal with and i have used VT for a bike and a car but it required a visual inspection and I dont know if a certificate will be acceptable.

You should not need to fabricate much, apart from a possible mounting tab or three. Perhaps if you advise the seller what you'll be mounting they might be able to weld them up before shipping...

I would have them stamp the frame and provide you with a Bill of Sace and Certificate of Origin (if they are indeed manufacturing the frame).

VT is straightforward to obtain a Reg.

I agree with Grand Paul, maybe some brackets. A drill press, sander, and a vise is usually what I use to fab brackets and such. Hacksaw or Sawzall to cut the metal. Mild steel is easy to work with.
Don't think you'll have to do much fabricating depending on the frame maker.

I am getting certificates of Origin for my Wasp frames. If New York is difficult I will register them in Vermont.
According to Hillbilly Biker when he registered his BSA Vermont didn't require the visual inspection during Covid. Not sure if they have reinstated that.

Tech School Night Class ?

No wobbly vices ! .

Dont Butcher anyhing . Stamping H T Steel may ? . AND drilling holes in it .

CARDBOARD or HARDBOARD templates , or plywood . For brackets & such .

Keep It Simple , use the simplist solution ( techno whacko is current delusion for the masses )

Its all LOGICAL . But you NEED a feel for spanners & fits .

Unhurried and mega inspected should see you through .

Select stuff that looks simple , clean . efficent . NOT ' hi tech ' .

Look at period race bikes , for inspiration . ( Id put High R & L pipes on it , maybe . )
a seperate alloy oil tank . ( Simpler fit up & INSPECTABLE )
Dont stuff up the front end .
A PRE UNIT would fit best .
Or a Commando / Norton 750 !

Alan Sheppard ran Clean Mitesses ! .

https://www.classicracer.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/18/2017/12/CRSEP0018.jpg

Tom Kirby was the ENTRANT . look em up .

KEEP IT SIMPLE . if it aint there it dont weigh nuffing .

I sure love Mick's intensely perfect illustrations...

My Mk3 frame from Rickman has a plate with the frame number that rivets to the headstock. the number is also stamped on the inside of the LH swing arm pivot gusset
20230203_192522 by Sigma Projects, on Flickr

My '72 Rickman Montesa had a serial number stamped on the steering neck. No plate that I ever found. Of course, that was a dirt bike, not a street bike, laws may be different...

I raced AHRMA 750 Sportsman for 25 years in a Redline then in a C&J copy of a Champion frame. With the C & J Champion it handled extremely well and had great front wheel feedback as you’d expect from a frame building expert who’s built hundreds of race frames for nearly 50 years. However C & J appears not to be taking orders these days https://www.candjracingframes.com/ but Cheney —an American dirt track frame maker appears to be and has one specifically for Triumph engines. http://www.flattrackaccessories.com/frame.shtml

Karsten Illg at Framecrafters is one of the top guys to do frame work.

That's letter i, then two "L"s and a G

The advantage of dealing with recognized dirt track expert frame makers is that the fundamental frame geometry—the wheelbase, engine location, fork rake, triple clamp offset, swingarm length and angle, height of swingarm pivot over countershaft center, all the stuff that makes the bike handle really well and especially get into turns hard, and complete turns without pushing wide, will have been ultra refined in a very competitive racing environment, over dozens or hundreds of frames the frame maker built, often subtly and continually evolving and improving. For instance back in the 90s when I first built my Trackmaster 750 using an older frame I went out to Ray Hensley’s to get some guidance because it had a bad push and he looked at the frame and told me he built that one before Goodyear dirt track tires were used, so it was made to sit back on the rear Pirelli which had far less traction and needed the weight transfer to get traction. He explained what it needed for it not to push using modern high traction dirt track tires was for the swingarm pivot center to be raised to 5/8 inch above the countershaft center, to give it more antisquat and put weight on the front wheel when the throttle was on hard coming off turns. It made a huge difference.

My C&J Champion road racer had all that plus a lot more rigidity, and had lots of of front wheel feedback even on asphalt. Jeff Cole has built hundreds of dirt track frames and really knows what he’s doing, and he’s in the AMA Hall of Fame. http://hof.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/detail.aspx?RacerID=481. I got my bare frame from Ray Abrams at A & A and he was a great help in getting me the right pegs, caliper hangers, quick change hub spacers motor mount spacers and other pieces. Unfortunately A & A is closed now.

I raced a 500 Triumph Metisse in AHRMA motocross, and it also was incredibly good handling, for the same reasons—racer designed and built so it handled really well.


Of course none of this matters in building a street tracker, if the goal is simply to build a beautiful nickel plated framer, but it might be something to keep in mind if you eventually want to race.

That's why I recommend Framecrafters - all of that applies, except they build roadrace frames. Even better Nexus.