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There was a time when UK learner riders were restricted to 250cc machines. The Japanese (bar Honda) would vie with each other to achieve a genuine 100mph 250, but Ducaaarti got there first (probably).

@ PineMonkey, what about a short back-to-back comparison of the B50 vs Ducaaarti 450? A B50 is in my price range and is on my shopping list.

An interesting 450 Desmo on Car & Classic

https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C938873

The dealer states that the bike broke the ankle of a previous owner:

">
After a few years Jim sold the 350 and regretted it so much that he talked his good friend into selling his 450. Unfortunately, on his first ride the 450 kicked-back & broke Jims ankle, and the bike was put into storage and never again ridden.
<"

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Originally Posted by Dibnah
There was a time when UK learner riders were restricted to 250cc machines. The Japanese (bar Honda) would vie with each other to achieve a genuine 100mph 250, but Ducaaarti got there first (probably).

@ PineMonkey, what about a short back-to-back comparison of the B50 vs Ducaaarti 450? A B50 is in my price range and is on my shopping list.

An interesting 450 Desmo on Car & Classic

https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C938873

The dealer states that the bike broke the ankle of a previous owner:

">
After a few years Jim sold the 350 and regretted it so much that he talked his good friend into selling his 450. Unfortunately, on his first ride the 450 kicked-back & broke Jims ankle, and the bike was put into storage and never again ridden.
<"

£18,100?!
I'll sell you mine for about a third of that!

My B50 was grunty and fun. I've heard that the person who owns it now absolutely loves it.
The Ducati is grunty and fun but might spin up a bit quicker?

It has been about 15 years between the 2, so take my analysis with a grain of salt.

I think the Ducati vibrates a bit more than the B50 but I did dedicate a bit of effort into making sure that the engine in the B50 was properly snug in the frame, something I have yet to to with the Ducati.

As far as starting/kickback goes for either bike I'd say learning the proper drill will save any heart/ankle break.... but my first street bike was a Sportster, so again, salt and whatnot.


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Very few 450s for sale in the UK (the ankle breaker bike is in Australia). My guess is that the technical support for B50s in the UK is far better than for Ducaaarti singles.

How did you get on with the left hand side kickstart on your 450? My left leg is not made for kick starting obstinate singles.

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MGAs are fun little cars, but a bit underpowered. No overdrive was available, but some have been retrofitted.

My TR3A has more power, but is not as pretty and has heavier steering. Still, lots of fun.

If I was looking for something for longer trips, I would think a TR6 would be a good candidate. Not crazy expensive, plenty of power, overdrive for the big roads, and more weather tight than the earlier cars. More space to carry spares and luggage as well.

Pick a real good one. No rust, unless you enjoy that type of repair.

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my first MG was in 12th grade it was a 1958 MGA that had been fitted with MGB motor it was sprightly i used to drive the 68 B all over the place on trips (was the only car i had) would not drive on Interstate now with crazy speeders but on secondary roads with 55mph speed limit is is very good


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I knew there was something I like about p monkey

IMG_20230105_091604886.jpg

Rich
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando
a ducati
Another couple triumphs
and no Honda?
but another triumph
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Originally Posted by Zimm
MGAs are fun little cars, but a bit underpowered. No overdrive was available, but some have been retrofitted.

My TR3A has more power, but is not as pretty and has heavier steering. Still, lots of fun.

If I was looking for something for longer trips, I would think a TR6 would be a good candidate. Not crazy expensive, plenty of power, overdrive for the big roads, and more weather tight than the earlier cars. More space to carry spares and luggage as well.

Pick a real good one. No rust, unless you enjoy that type of repair.

I'm OK with underpowered cars. Drove my 55 HP Ford Festiva 4000 miles round trip to Denver; gone to many a rally on my 18 HP BSA M21 with a 48 MPH "happy speed". I've learned over the years (A) How to avoid Interstates and (B) If you MUST get on an Interstate for a few miles due to lack of other roads over the mountains, then find a handy truck that's been governed to 100 KPH, or maybe 65 MPH, and stay in his mirror range. That keeps you out of the "Death Race 2000" scene in the other two or three lanes. In 2018, Fay and I spent 7500 miles on the road in 4 weeks crossing the USA and back and never set wheel on an Interstate.

I seem to remember that TR-4s, TR-250s, and TR-6s were pretty narrow for me .... an MGA is wider and an MGB much wider and more room. But I haven't sat in one for years.

As I mentioned, I put about 4500 miles a year on car (the rest of the miles are on bikes or with Fay in her car). Even an old LBC ought to be able to handle that with reasonable maintenance. I would start out with an absolutely rust-free one, and arrange with my mechanic every New Year to put it up on the lift and check it and see if anything bad was trying to get a foothold.

Sort of like going to the dentist. If you let your teeth go too far, you can't fix it. Go in and get them polished and treated twice a year, and you can avoid the corrosion.

Lannis


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TR6 for me please, the earlier TRs all look too fussy, the wheelbase of the TR7 looks to be too short, although when fitted with a Rover V8 it went quite well.

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The MGA was designed to be a Right Hand Drive car. Mine is RHD. There is about 3 inches more width in the right side foot well than the left which really helps while driving.

Last edited by Roadwarrior; 01/05/23 7:06 pm.

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Originally Posted by Dibnah
Very few 450s for sale in the UK (the ankle breaker bike is in Australia). My guess is that the technical support for B50s in the UK is far better than for Ducaaarti singles.

How did you get on with the left hand side kickstart on your 450? My left leg is not made for kick starting obstinate singles.

I usually stand beside it and kick it with my right leg, but I've sat on it and kicked it left-legged, as well... but I've had a few left-kick bikes including an Ossa SDR that has a ridiculously long kicker.

As to parts/technical support I found the B50 to parts fairly readily available here in the US. Some of the DUcati bits I found here via Le'bay, but they seem to be much more readily available in Europe. I was only buying a few exterior components, though, an air box and a silencer and fork/strut gaiters, really...


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Originally Posted by Richrd
I knew there was something I like about p monkey

My rapier-like wit and irresistible charisma wasn't enough?

Neat bike! 350?
Is that an actual complete rear fender?
I think the first thing anyone did was hack them off about 3" from the rear loop... or they simply cracked there because of the vibrations, the length of the fender, and the weight of the factory tail-lamp assembly. Either way, they are hard to find items.


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Lannis...my two cents worth. I had a Miata, and I have a good friend with an S2000. I find the Honda very tight. Little luggage capacity, and more expensive. The Miata, on the other hand, was roomy enough for both me and my better half, with a more spacious luggage capacity. Plus, Miata parts are much less expensive if you need them.


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Originally Posted by Lannis
......I seem to remember that TR-4s, TR-250s, and TR-6s were pretty narrow for me .... an MGA is wider and an MGB much wider and more room. But I haven't sat in one for years.......
Originally Posted by HughdeMann
.....The Miata, on the other hand, was roomy enough for both me and my better half.......
Better go and sit in one, whatever one you are interested in. Most all the small british cars are cramped.

I've been repairing exotics for 30 years and have been in and out of all those cars and, my brother has a Miata, but I can't remember how bad it is to get myself seated in it. That probably means it isn't that difficult.

Now that I'm old, the only ones that are truly easy to get in and out of are old Alfas and bathtub Porsches. They are surprisingly roomy but they are costly.

I don't think you're looking for a Jag but to add another reason against one, XK120's and E types are a right contortion to get yourself seated in.

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Spitfires are fun but they are small. Little ol me had trouble getting in and out of this thing. but it had a hot motor built for gymkhanas. but I know where there is a one owner 1975 spitfire with 5000 miles for sale.

I'm the second owner of the 350 duc. that's original fender.

rich1alteredEmail.jpg

Rich
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I did not write the text.


Rich
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

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@ PineMonkey , the list of dirt bikes with left hand kick starts is surprisingly long e.g. Bultaco Pursang and KTM 495

Some CCMs were / are raced with no kickstart on the basis that no-one could start the things out on the track, so might as well save some weight

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

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Originally Posted by Dibnah
@ PineMonkey , the list of dirt bikes with left hand kick starts is surprisingly long e.g. Bultaco Pursang and KTM 495

Some CCMs were / are raced with no kickstart on the basis that no-one could start the things out on the track, so might as well save some weight

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Handsome machine, that, even it no one can crank it.... ACK! Is that a Pig Horn in the background?!


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I race vintage dirt bikes. All are European- CZ, Husqvarna, Maico, previously Bultaco. All are left kick. I usually stand next to them and kick with my right foot. The Husky 510 is easier to start than my Maico 400.

Huskies.jpg
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Originally Posted by Richrd
..... but I know where there is a one owner 1975 spitfire with 5000 miles for sale.

Oh yeah? Where .... ?

Lannis


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Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by Richrd
..... but I know where there is a one owner 1975 spitfire with 5000 miles for sale.

Oh yeah? Where .... ?

Lannis

Uh oh....


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Originally Posted by PINEMONKEY
Originally Posted by Dibnah
@ PineMonkey , the list of dirt bikes with left hand kick starts is surprisingly long e.g. Bultaco Pursang and KTM 495

Some CCMs were / are raced with no kickstart on the basis that no-one could start the things out on the track, so might as well save some weight

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Handsome machine, that, even it no one can crank it.... ACK! Is that a Pig Horn in the background?!

Pig-Horn?! Ha-ha, sounds like a previous F9 owner. Hey, it was porky, but a much better bike than the damn F5. Wonder what percentage of them were destroyed when the owners bypassed the oil auto-lube?

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I don't think Lannis would be comfortable in a spitfire. but it's sitting at a pawn / gun shop in town. he's been trying to sell it to me since last march. Story I get is first owner gave it to him and he's been sitting on it for a while. I think he's asking $5k. I thought maybe I'd wait till after the tsmr then walk in with a pocket full of cash and see if he really wants to sell it.

But if your interested I'll go get some pics and maybe take it for a ride.

He has an older z4 for less money that I would rather have. He hadd a nice yellow ac cobra that I alsmost had to have.


Rich
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
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but another triumph
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Originally Posted by Richrd
I don't think Lannis would be comfortable in a spitfire. but it's sitting at a pawn / gun shop in town. he's been trying to sell it to me since last march. Story I get is first owner gave it to him and he's been sitting on it for a while. I think he's asking $5k. I thought maybe I'd wait till after the tsmr then walk in with a pocket full of cash and see if he really wants to sell it.

But if your interested I'll go get some pics and maybe take it for a ride.

He has an older z4 for less money that I would rather have. He hadd a nice yellow ac cobra that I alsmost had to have.

You're in trouble if you have to have someone's AC Cobra!! Nice fiberglass Shelby replicas are north of $50K, and an original AC Cobra is going to be approaching 7 figures ...

You're right, though, it HAS been a long time since I actually sat in a Spitfire, so it might not have the room I need. As I mentioned above, most MGs (A,B) are plenty big - MGTC through MGTF are not. My Morgan 4/4 fit me ... a Lotus Seven does not. The TR4 - TR6 Triumphs molest my left shoulder - I don't know about the TR2/3 - never sat in one.

I'm not looking for a car that needs work ... I'm looking for one that someone has done right, and is ready to move out of his shed. That's why the MGB's I'm looking at are $15K, and why the MGAs are $20K+ ... and the TR6 Triumphs are $25-30K ..... And why there's no sense in my even looking at big Healeys, Jags, etc. They're all in the silly money stratosphere where no man has gone before.

Lannis


I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.
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it comes down to "why". do you want a small british car, or do you just want a sunday toy. if you just want the small car experience the lowly miata would do the trick for less money. more reliable. faster.if you need a cool british vehicle, you got the norton and bsas.

now lets talk about the moto giro. I've been wanting to do that. let's make it a team effort.


Rich
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

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Originally Posted by Richrd
it comes down to "why". do you want a small british car, or do you just want a sunday toy. if you just want the small car experience the lowly miata would do the trick for less money. more reliable. faster.if you need a cool british vehicle, you got the norton and bsas.

You make an excellent point there. I'm not sure I can answer that question with certainty. Not sure ANYONE can answer a question like that about their car, their girl, their clothes, their house. I hear people say all the time "Hell, I don't care what other people think, I just do (or drive or wear or live or date) what I want to do." And I find that that's almost never true. Everyone except a badly mentally ill person cares somewhat about what other people think, about what image they project. Otherwise they'd go naked, or poop in the street, or just smack people they didn't like. Even people that say they're not projecting an image ARE projecting an image, and they care what it is.

The reason I buy the bikes that I do is because of the way they ride, the way they feel, the way they look, and what they say to the world about me and my choices. People come up to me at a gas pump when I'm on my BSA and want to talk about the one that they or their dad had once ... if I'm on a Honda, no one talks to me. If I'm on a Harley, people often come up and start talking BS about Hells Angels and Sons of Anarchy and Jesse James and billet and Screamin Eagle and jet kits, and I'm just not interested - it's why I don't have a Harley even though I liked my 2 panheads and my shovel.

I've had some interesting cars in my 50 years of driving. A '70 Honda S600 two-cylinder sedan, a '68 Mustang coupe, a '67 VW Beetle, a '72 Ford Thunderbird with a 429, a '69 Pontiac GTO convertible with a 400, 4bbl, 4-speed Hurst shifter, tach in the hood, 4.11 gears ... a 58 MGA, a '73 MGB, a '66 Morgan 4/4, two Ford Festivas, a 2004 Toyota Solara ragtop; the rest were family cars for hauling little league teams and baby seats. All fun in their own way, some I couldn't afford to drive at 7 MPG, some I should obviously NEVER HAVE SOLD. Live and learn.

What I want now is a combination of fun, motorcycle-level practicality, image, conversations about "Hey, I used to have one of those!", road feel, and open air. LBC or Miata/Sky, not sure. You guys are helping quite a bit.

Originally Posted by Richrd
now lets talk about the moto giro. I've been wanting to do that. let's make it a team effort.

I'd love to be part of a Britbike MotoGiro effort. I lost about 4 months of prep time last year what with hearts and hospitals and all like that, but I'm working every day on my C15 now. IF the motor doesn't need rebuilding down to the crank, I could have it ready for spring or early summer. When I say Britbike, I mean Britbike Guys, not necessarily British Bikes. Little Italian bikes are the definitive Moto Giro rides, it looks like ... although all pre-'69 sub 306cc bikes are equally qualified and welcome.

If I don't have a bike ready, I'll come and be a pit monkey and gofer for whoever does have one in the fight ....

Lannis


I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.
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