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#896507 11/27/22 2:43 am
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Mark Z Offline OP
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I'm working on a TR5T that smokes on one side, always on starting, and then clears up after it's run for a bit. I didn't write this to diagnose the problem, but after having eliminated other alternatives, it looks like there may be a crack in the cylinder head.

So, if I DO have to replace the cylinder head, I was wondering, what other differences are there between the TR5T and Daytona motors besides the single vs. dual carb cylinder head?

If there are other differences (e.g., cam shafts), would I still be able to use a Daytona head without making other changes?


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
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What comes to mind immediately is the exhaust ports... no spigots on the TR5T. Think they're called slip-ins? Specifically for a frame fitment reason.

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Mark Z Offline OP
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Yes, I see. Right now it has one-off fabbed oversized TT-style header pipes clamped over push-in adapters. I don't like the oversized headers or the adapters, so I'm thinking of re-doing the exhaust again. If I can find the TR5T header pipes, then I should go with a TR5T head. If however they have to be fabbed again, then I may be able to work around either head.

So does the Daytona have screw-in header fixtures? Are the pipes flared at the end?


Mark Z

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Be aware that the stock exhaust on the TR5T actually needs springs to hold it in place... pipes have a habit of blowing right out otherwise. AMHIK.

Sorry, dunno about Daytona for sure, but I believe so up to the end.

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The Daytona's went from push-over pipes to push-in pipes in '73. Both push-in and push-over headers are available. My push-in pipes are made by LF Harris.

Terry


Bike History: Jawa 50 1956, Bridgestone 50/90 Sport 1967, Triumph T120 Bonneville 1970, Yamaha 125 DT125 Scrambler 1974, Kawasaki 125 KE125 Scrambler 1978, AJS model 18 500 Single 1964. Current bike Triumph T100R Daytona 1972.
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The springs holding in the exhaust pipes on the TR5T were introduced part way through the 1974 build (TR5Ts were only built in 1973 and 1974).
The 1973 and early 1974 bikes had no springs.
I have a 1973 and a 1974.
The 1974 has springs but the 1973 does not.
I have had the 1973 bike for over 10 years and never had a problem with pipe to exhaust port leakage.
Just my personal experience.

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Dunno... I have seen an awful lot of 73's with the springs. Some had altered pipes to accept them, but most had the factory lugs on the pipes (though of course they all could be aftermarket, but...). We have talked about this before, and I still have never seen a consistent pattern to a timeline where they were started.

They used them for a reason, just not as lucky as far as pipes staying in place I guess.

https://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/796497/tr5t-triumph-exhaust-specs -you discussed the springs in this thread, were less certain about the timeline it seems? The parts books indicate springs were fitted in 73...?

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Mark Z Offline OP
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It sounds like you're saying that a Daytona cylinder head could be used with TR5T header pipes, provided that they are of the correct type (push over or push in) for that head.

I've noticed springs on many A65 race bike headers. The header pipes were typically non-standard, and therefore did not have a crossover tube or cross-brace. Also, I've noticed on my A65s, the more times you remove and install the header pipes, the looser they get. So for normal road use, I can see where springs may or may not be required. This is something I'd be willing to add though, if it appeared to be necessary. That being said, it sounds like the push-over pipes are a better idea all around.

My real question though, concerns other differences between the TR5T and the Daytona. I've heard that the TR5T engine is a "detuned" version of the Daytona engine, but I don't know exactly what that means. If I can't achieve Daytona-like performance by merely changing the cylinder head, then there's no point.


Mark Z

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https://sites.google.com/site/rightfootshifterspages/home/test

If you can get this link to work (always a question), you can open the 500 engine parts database, and it will show all the differences in the 500's from 67 to 74 by year and model. A lot of the info for the 73 and 74 Daytonas and TR5T's are boxed together, as they are same components. You can also find the separate ones, indicating differences (cams, sprockets, etc). I've never gone through it completely, so can't really give you any sort of proper answer.

Edit- You might want to read a bit more that site has to offer... I remember it saying something about road-version TR5T's being built at the end. I'd assume that those would have had the de-tuning changes eliminated. It may have some details about that. Been a while since I read that site and don't recall if I saw anything except the mention.

Last edited by Steve Erickson; 11/27/22 6:21 pm.
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Mark Z Offline OP
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Wow, thanks Steve! I was able to follow the link, but I haven't yet perused the material. Looks like I have some homework to do!


Mark Z

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Sure, keep us posted on what you find Mark.

I don't think you're going to see Daytona-like without some gearing changes as well...

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Mark Z Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Mark Z
Wow, thanks Steve! I was able to follow the link, but I haven't yet perused the material. Looks like I have some homework to do!

As it turns out, I was able to get to the main page, but not to any of the sub-pages; they're in some strange format that my computer does not understand.

I'm still looking for a brief general description of the differences between a Daytona engine and a TR5T engine. When I started the thread, I was hoping that John Healy would be able to provide such an explanation, but just today I saw the thread about John's recent medical difficulties, so I understand now why he hasn't been present on the forum. Hopefully John will resume his stewardship of this forum and will see this.


Mark Z

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Mark Z #897228 12/04/22 10:45 pm
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Mark, I can read the sheets on my computer. If you'd like, I could try sending them to you, looks like I could do it in Excel or PDF. Of course, no guarantees that you can open them either...

PM me with your email addy if you want to try it. There doesn't seem to be a lot of differences, but there are 13 pages I think, so they'll add up.

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Mark Z Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Steve Erickson
Mark, I can read the sheets on my computer. If you'd like, I could try sending them to you, looks like I could do it in Excel or PDF. Of course, no guarantees that you can open them either...

PM me with your email addy if you want to try it. There doesn't seem to be a lot of differences, but there are 13 pages I think, so they'll add up.
Done.


Mark Z

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The TR5T and the late Daytona are almost the same. Triumph even used the same cams, they used different lifters is all. The Daytona has the "R" lifter and the TR5T uses the same lifter as the old T100C single carb, just different radius on them. The other difference is the head bolts due to the B50 style OIF set up. I think the Rocker boxes on the TR5T have slightly larger bolt holes to fit the "Sleeve Nuts".
There are a few difference between the 1973 and the 1974 TR5T. I have a 1973 and one of the very last TR5T's built, 26 from the the end of production run. The 1974 muffler has a longer tail pipe, the air box and the gas cap are different also on the 1974 and the 1974 does use springs to help hold the header pipes in. The front motor mounts on the 1974 are drilled for the springs on the 1974.
You have to remember the shape the factory was in when these where being made, they used what they had. I have a NOS TR5T Speedometer that is black and not chrome plated. It was referenced as being used on the very early ones in a book. I have also seen the 1973 models with a 30mm AMAL and not the normal 28mm. This could have been something that the dealer were doing at a time. The TR5T was not that rare of a bike here in Michigan, sadly most were rode to death in the woods. I have seen a more then few where they had huge rear sprockets and the results were they busted the engine cases at the counter shaft sprocket with a huge crack from the bearing.
Does anyone know where to get the after market chrome adapter pipe that was used on the TR5T. It fits on the end of the header pipe and comes up behind the engine and then points to the right above the swing arm, normally they would then use a Supper Trapp Muffler on them . I have seen these twice now at the Battle of the Brits bit show at Dearborn Michigan on two different TR5T's.
Jeff


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