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#872035 02/14/22 11:30 am
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I am making good progress restoring my BB and am getting to the finishing details.
I was pondering about the horn.
Most Gold Stars seem to be fitted with a Lucas Altette horn with no Lucas markings and the wavy disc. My parts list shows the plain disc type. Can anyone confirm what should be fitted?

Regards

Gordon


1961 BSA Super Rocket
1953 BSA BB GS
1939 Rudge Ulster
1951 Bailey Rudge
1969 Indian Velo
1979 Moto Morini Camel
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BSA Goldstar on eBay
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http://taffthehorns.com/

Probably the best person to speak to


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Rudge00 #872061 02/14/22 5:20 pm
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Taff has retired I think . Spoke to him just before Covid, late ‘19, and he’d had a stroke. He said he was winding things up

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I am sorry to hear about Taff. I have done business with him some time ago.
I printed out the horn photos and listings he sent to me, and now I am glad I did so.

Taff is a Welshman. His ancestral countrymen settled a town near me, and several of my wife's English-born relations chose to be buried in the cemetery known as the "Welsh Cemetery" near here. Many of the old gravestones are engraved in Welsh language.
Taff was willing to translate them for us if we wanted.

I hope he gets better.

Rudge00 #872071 02/14/22 9:53 pm
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I think that the corrugated tone disc horn dates from 1954.
Prior to this type, the horn has a flat tone disc, bezel with raised centre and the words "Lucas' and "ALTETTE" stamped into the face.
From 1952 these horns have a large lock nut on the back on the adjustable pole.
Taff has handed his business to another fellow who I have dealt with.

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Rudge00 #890922 09/17/22 9:50 am
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As far as I remember taff had a huge amount of data and model descriptions on his website, but that domain is offline now..

So the bloke who did take over his business, did not take over the domain it seems…

Does anyone know where the altette modeldiscriptions (model by model, year by year) can be found now?


Harold / Motolab.nl
BSA: W35-11 (sloper) ‘35, WM20 '40 M21,B31 '54 B33 '55 ZB34GS '49, DBD34GS '58, DBD34GS ‘60
Triumph 5T '49 + T100 + speedkit
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Rudge00 #890945 09/17/22 6:13 pm
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Originally Posted by Rudge00
.....I was pondering about the horn. .............Most Gold Stars seem to be fitted with a Lucas Altette horn with no Lucas markings and the wavy disc. My parts list shows the plain disc type. Can anyone confirm what should be fitted?......
Hi Gordon,
Here are a few pages from the horn section of the Lucas catalogue.

If your B34 is a 1953-54, the horn is a model HF1234 and part # 069468 which supersedes to# 069225.
According to the catalogue, the 069468 horn was maroon and chrome, the 069225 replacement was black and chrome.
This catalogue can be a bit bewildering and the bracket section doesn't seem to fit with what I think I know about early 50's Gold Stars, but with a bit of study it will hopefully point you in a useful direction.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Rudge00 #891006 09/18/22 8:42 am
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My 1948 B32 has a flat disc Altette, which I think is correct for its age. The 1955 DB34 that I used to own had the wavy disc. I bought the bike when it was about 15 years old from its original owner so I know that it had the correct horn. What I can't tell you is what year they changed from the flat type to the wavy type.


1948 BSA B32 Competition
Ducati Scrambler Classic
Ducati Supersport 939
Rudge00 #891033 09/18/22 5:51 pm
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Taff is closed, but information from his web page indicates that the HF1234 is the correct body, and the disc changed from flat to wavy in 1953. Both used Lucas 700168 bracket according to that information. So wavy disc is correct according to the information found.
Next question is disc colour (silver or black) and if smooth or wrinkled….I asked Taff this question years ago…I will look for the email….

Last edited by Dave - North of 60; 09/18/22 5:58 pm.

1958 BSA DBD Gold Star Clubman
1957 BSA Gold Star - work in progress
1965 Ducati 250 Scrambler
1971 Ducati 250 Mk3
1977 Hercules GS175
1981 Ducati Mike Hailwood Replica
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2005 KTM 450 SMR - street legal (for going to the corner store)
Rudge00 #891072 09/19/22 12:31 am
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Pretty sure that the corrugated tone disc came in in 1954.

Rudge00 #891101 09/19/22 3:23 am
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In this particular range of part numbers associated with early 50's BSA singles, only one HF1234 horn came with a flat tone disc according to the Lucas pages posted above. That was the #069442 with a #700213 flat tone disc. It was silver and beige so probably was right for a Golden Flash. It wasn't fitted to a B range 500 from 1951 -57. All that to say 2 things. A wavy tone disc will undoubtedly be correct and, that that Lucas catalogue is not easy to figure out. It took me a while and this is just one section.

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You are undoubtedly wrong, Mate.
The Lucas catalogue covers machines from about 1936 to 1957. All Altettes had a flat tone disc up to 1953. The parts quoted in the individual bike section show the part which superseded the original. The HF1234 had several types all with the same model number. There are at least four different body types.
I know of six different bezels. Two types of diaphragm.
I have been overhauling these horns for over thirty years so do have some knowledge on the subject.
The easy way to settle this is to find an original photograph of the bike in question.

trevinoz #891209 09/20/22 3:07 am
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Originally Posted by trevinoz
You are undoubtedly wrong, Mate......
I may well be. Like I said, that book is a bit hard to use, but I'm simply reading (deciphering?) the relevant pages of my 1936-57 Lucas Master catalogue. I posted 4 of the pages above. Please study them and tell me what you find.

By my reading, a 1951 spring frame BSA B34 had a #069239 horn with a #703339 tone disc. That is the wavy one. But like I say, it's not an easy book to use until you get the hang of it. You have to do a lot of cross referencing.

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The corrugated disc didn't exist in 1951. Taff stated on his site that the said disc was introduced in 1954 and I agree with him.
I have been using that catalogue for many years and I am well aware of it's shortcomings.

Last edited by trevinoz; 09/20/22 10:18 pm.
Rudge00 #891295 09/21/22 12:10 am
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Do you suppose the Lucas book is wrong?

Rudge00 #891334 09/21/22 8:36 am
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My 1955 (April 55 to be precise) has original horn and is corrugated disc type.

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Originally Posted by Stuart Kirk
Do you suppose the Lucas book is wrong?


Every parts catalog i know, old and new, are written with the parts they are producing at that very moment, with “backwards compatible” in mind. A lot of Altette models are in function AND fitting backwards compatible, switches and rearlights are far more difficult regarding fitting..


A better source will be a motorcycle parts list, published in that very year…. Later publications will give the same issues as the “Lucas” catalog with more years to cover….

JMHO ;-)


Harold / Motolab.nl
BSA: W35-11 (sloper) ‘35, WM20 '40 M21,B31 '54 B33 '55 ZB34GS '49, DBD34GS '58, DBD34GS ‘60
Triumph 5T '49 + T100 + speedkit
Moto Guzzi LeMans '79
BMW R51/3 '51, R100GS '89
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No, I don't think that the Lucas book is wrong, just that it lists the parts available to replace the original fitment at the time of publication.
If the book list parts up to 1957, it is safe to say that it was published after that date and many parts originally fitted would be no longer available.

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Originally Posted by trevinoz
.......If the book list parts up to 1957, it is safe to say that it was published after that date and many parts originally fitted would be no longer available.
There is a supersession table at the back of the horn section. It lists suitable replacements for the original issue item. That seems to be how the catalogue deals with items that are no longer available. Lucas offered a substitute that in some cases is identical except for color. By referring to the individual part numbers for each original item, it is possible to know what was originally fitted to it.

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By your reasoning the horn fitted to a B32 from 1945 to 1952 would be part number 069239 which was superseded by 069255.
This was certainly not the case as in that period of time the HF 1234 had four different bodies, two had locknuts as well as dome nuts on the tone disc and one had a large nut on the rear with a point adjuster and the earliest had a point adjuster and two screws holding the points on the rear.
None had a corrugated tone disc.
Manufacturers part numbers don't help either as there is no cross reference as far as I know.
You should take care with some of the introduction dates as the date may be correct but the model year of the machine can be the next year.
As I indicated, photographs are the best guide.
The terminal plate has the date and part number but again care must be taken as these are often changed over the years.


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