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Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
Agreed.
But those were the results using the casting number.
Did not find any cross-reference to regular nomenclature.


I can't offer any logical explanation as to why you have a 42T bolt-up drum sprocket with UNF studs unless perhaps it's a 650 Mercury part (as the Mercury continued on into 1970) but that is just a wild guess.

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My atlas drums (0019 casting/component ) have CEI studs. early narrow chain NM50245 and wide chain 03.0053..... I have both
My series 1 Commando drums (0019 casting/component) have UNF studs AN 06.0319


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Both 42T and 43T drums with 7/16-20 fine thread nuts run onto studs.
[Linked Image]


1970 T120R - 'Anton'
1970 Commando - 'Bruno'
1967 T120R - 'Caesar'
1972 Commando - 'Big Red'
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Are there any numbers or 'Made in England' on the inside ?

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43T (new) has Made in England.
42T (old) just the casting #.


1970 T120R - 'Anton'
1970 Commando - 'Bruno'
1967 T120R - 'Caesar'
1972 Commando - 'Big Red'
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The "made in England " will be the aftermarket one. I have 2 different application rear drums with exactally the same paper label tag style on both boxes. one from RGM and the other ? . John Healy said they were ?velocette? or something like that. A well known after market MFG.Maybe decades old and something they don't make anymore.


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The Made in England 43t ribbed one I bought for a 'Model 7' was recent.

Could be old stock, but the RGM carton looked recent, if that means anything ...

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The single and double row bearings should be pressed in right up to the shoulders of the 06-7701 bearing spacer correct?
My manual just says double row bearing should be pressed in by the outer race.

I'm wondering if the binding occurring when the axle is tightened could be that the existing bearings were not shouldered up and tightening the axle is putting lateral load on the races.


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1970 Commando - 'Bruno'
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Hmm.
New bearing didn't want to slide right up to the shoulder.
You can make out the ridge at the base of the sleeve.
Seems the tool wasn't run right up to the shoulder face.
[Linked Image]

So my theory is when the axle nut was tightened to spec it would pull the inner race towards the spacer and side load the bearing.
Hence the binding.
It's an R&M 97P. Maybe the original?
It has a few grabby points when turned and signs of spinning on the outer race.
[Linked Image]

Will update when it's back together.


1970 T120R - 'Anton'
1970 Commando - 'Bruno'
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1972 Commando - 'Big Red'
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Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
It's an R&M 97P.


"LDJ 17" (17x40x16mm).

https://en.tradebearings.com/LDJ_17-571107.html?rel=nobot

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Thanks L.A.B.
It's a bit worn and I thought the D was a B so it didn't appear in search.
The replacement is the 2 shield variety.
Do you have a favorite packing grease?


1970 T120R - 'Anton'
1970 Commando - 'Bruno'
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1972 Commando - 'Big Red'
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Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
Do you have a favorite packing grease?

Just the usual Lithium general purpose grease.

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Cheers.


1970 T120R - 'Anton'
1970 Commando - 'Bruno'
1967 T120R - 'Caesar'
1972 Commando - 'Big Red'
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Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
The replacement is the 2 shield variety.

New shielded (ZZ) or sealed (1RS/2RS) bearings shouldn't need any additional grease.

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Amen to that.

I prefer the high-temp wheel bearing grease variety.

On a hot day here, I noticed the grease was dripping out of the wheel bearings of an old Enfield. !
It was HOT that day though....
Now I don't know what had been used in it, but it obviously wasn't up to the job.
YMMV.

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Rear wheel bearing refitting.

From WSM P/N 06-5146 ©1973

"Press the brake drum side bearing on ... squarely into position in the hub and drive home applying load only to the outer race. Load on the centre race can cause damage."

Bold is mine.

Since the bearing cavity is deeper than the shoulder of the bearing spacer, how are folks determining when home is achieved?


1970 T120R - 'Anton'
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Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
"Press the brake drum side bearing on ... squarely into position in the hub and drive home applying load only to the outer race. Load on the centre race can cause damage."

Bold is mine.

Since the bearing cavity is deeper than the shoulder of the bearing spacer, how are folks determining when home is achieved?


It is achieved when the drive-side bearing inner race contacts the shoulder of the bearing spacer (the right-hand bearing having already been set to the correct depth by fully tightening the left-hand-threaded lockring). Therefore care must be taken not to force the drive-side bearing outer too far into the hub as it could side-load both bearings.

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Thanks L.A.B.
How are you determining contact?

I just think there's a more than even chance of putting lateral load on the bearing(s) due to that cavity and the instruction to drive the outer race.
I'm pretty sure that ridge on the spacer was what was causing lateral loading and binding as well generating significant heat.

Anyway, I opted to uses a threaded rod and stack of washers to draw the double row bearing in applying force across the inner and outer races on both bearings.
Obvious blunder?


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Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
How are you determining contact?

The inner race should just be in contact with the shoulder and the outer race positioned so there's no side loading between the inner and outer races.


Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
I just think there's a more than even chance of putting lateral load on the bearing(s) due to that cavity and the instruction to drive the outer race.

If care is taken not to drive the outer race too far into the hub then it shouldn't, and wheel bearings of many British bikes are the same where one bearing is inserted to the depth of the hub shoulder (so sets the position of the hub) and secured with (normally) a threaded lockring (or can be a circlip) and the other wheel bearing is simply pressed/driven down to the bearing spacer.

As it says in manual section H4. 5, the double-row bearing should be drifted further into the hub to the stop in order to force out the right-hand bearing.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]




Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
I'm pretty sure that ridge on the spacer was what was causing lateral loading and binding as well generating significant heat.

That may well be true.

Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
Anyway, I opted to uses a threaded rod and stack of washers to draw the double row bearing in applying force across the inner and outer races on both bearings.

Yes, or a bearing drift that also applies even pressure to both inner and outer races.



Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
Obvious blunder?

I couldn't say but if for whatever reason the bearing inner race wasn't located against the shoulder then it could have been what was causing the problem.

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Originally Posted by L.A.B.
The inner race should just be in contact with the shoulder and the outer race positioned so there's no side loading between the inner and outer races.

Yes, but not quite sure how to do that using the method in the WSM manual.


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Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
Originally Posted by L.A.B.
The inner race should just be in contact with the shoulder and the outer race positioned so there's no side loading between the inner and outer races.

Yes, but not quite sure how to do that using the method in the WSM manual.

You just have to be careful not to knock the outer race too far into the hub.

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OK, spacer in for speedo drive, axle torqued up to spec

[Linked Image]

Zero sound in stethoscope with wheel slowly turning.

I'm thinking that ridge (or any cause of lateral loading, e.g. driving D/S bearing in too far or not far enough at outer race) causes a cascade of issues.
Overheating of the bearing causes the inner race to start turning.
That starts the 06.7704 spacer to turn, eating a nice circle into the pot metal speedo drive housing.
The inner side of the speedo housing then starts to bind on the wheel hub cover, which produces the heat which eventually warps the drive housing.
I'm not convinced overtightening of the axle nut is the cause of that deformation.

So, IMO, if you have binding of any kind on the rear axle, retreat to first principles and check the bearing spacing first.

Finis.


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1970 Commando - 'Bruno'
1967 T120R - 'Caesar'
1972 Commando - 'Big Red'
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Are you sure you have all the spacers on the back axle, including the one that prevents the speedo drive from being crushed ?
No 34 in particular

Not a particularly useful angle to show things from ...

https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-drawing/197/rear-wheel-drum-bearings

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Not a cush drive, but yes the top hat spacer is in there.
I am using a sized washer to fill the hole the 06.7704 (31 in your diagram) cut into the inside of the drive housing.


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Originally Posted by Rohan
Are you sure you have all the spacers on the back axle, including the one that prevents the speedo drive from being crushed ?
No 34 in particular

34 doesn't prevent the speedo drive from being crushed.




That's the wrong diagram.
https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-drawing/272/rear-wheel

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