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#887179 08/02/22 1:09 pm
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How many would pay more or pay less for a restored Commando that had been powder coated on all or many components?
% up or % down from asking price or $ up or $ down.

I am going to do a continuation of my old tech article on front iso rubber deflection rate.
iso deflection

I am in unfortunate possession of a basket case Series 1 - 70 Commando with a lot of powder coated components such as the front iso motor mount.
Having to strip unwanted spots are very time consuming ...for what benefit?
It must be removed or the end caps will not go on.

I am also in the process of stripping all the black powder coat off an inexpensive S1 fastback rear fender....makes a $30 ebay fender seem expensive compared to a $120 + shipping new from AN. Propane torch and scraper starts the job OK but a LOT of detail work and final sand blasting. I would not have bought it if the ebay ad had mentioned powder coat.......


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i see no reason to ever powder coat anything, and wouldnt pay a penny more for a machine with such an inconvenient treatment.


i'm old enough to remember when patriotism meant not trying to overthrow the government.
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I'd say it depends on the buyer. To the average guy buying a bike to ride and enjoy powder coating wouldn't lower the price and would probably be seen as a positive. Especially if the bike has other mods. To someone looking for a 100 point correct show bike down to every last fitting it would be a negative and they probably wouldn't even buy the bike at any price. I would imagine that there are probably 50 buyers looking for a rider to one looking for a concours restoration. I've sold a bike with powder coated frame and bits and also a painted one both the same models. Didn't seem to make a difference in price.

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I have the frame on my A10 powdercoated which was done when I built it back in '05. I wouldnt say its adds value by any means and it has held up well. If done properly it can be a very durable finish but would only have it applied to the frame and frame bits, never to a fender or side panels, these I would paint.


1955 BSA Bantam D1 Plunger
1956 BSA A10RR Street and LSR Bike
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I bought a basketcase Norton - pre Commando - that had a powder coated frame.
I painted over the powdercoat, so the finishes all matched.
And this is a fair way off a concours effort.
Powdercoat makes good undercoat ...

Paintstripper - methylene chloride - softens up powdercoat.
So it is easily scraped off.
Fumes & expense, rather than just burnt plastic fumes ...

Well done, powdercoat is a nice glossy waterproof coating.

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Methylene chloride paint stripper was banned in the US in 2019. Everything now is citrus based. Might as well not waste your money.

htown70 #887249 08/03/22 12:13 am
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Originally Posted by htown70
Methylene chloride paint stripper was banned in the US in 2019.

Maybe in "paint stripper" yes, I just buy the sunnyside brush cleaner (wheelin Illinois) which does still have MC..it's now my .AMAL carb soak.

I myself have always painted my own stuff.
However over the past years people have reported the plastic yielding under flat and lock washers on case mounting bolts and thru studs and then damaging engine and tranny cases as they squirm about on plastic.. "well it was tight when I put it together ! ! !=???"
Just removing the PC to assemble for the iso kit test, I can already see lots of micro scratching and I'm still not yet able to install the end caps. thumbsdown


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At one time I thought that powder coating was the only way to go. I did a couple of bike without much trouble. Then I did a restoration of a Rocket Gold Star and the fun began. You BSA guys will know that the engine and transmission plates all stack up within the frame. So, you commence scrapping off the thick PC to allow you to assemble the bike. If you are careful it does not look bad, but why bother. If I were to decide to use PC again it would only be the frame. But that is not going to happen either. I have started painting everything I build. Yes, you need to be careful but the results are much better. A powder coated bike with never shine like a spray painted one. It is your choice, but that is my opinion.


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Cyborg #887325 08/03/22 9:15 pm
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Originally Posted by Cyborg

Also Quote:
Notice: Methylene Chloride based products are for industrial use only. Use only in well ventilated area with proper protective equipment.

How do you "smell it" with a supplied air respirator in a well ventilated area? OSHA must not visit your "industrial work environment" ? wink

beerchug


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You can buy that stuff in the supermarket here.
Simply sez don't breathe the fumes and use outdoors.
And not to eat it !!

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Originally Posted by Dave Comeau
Originally Posted by Cyborg

Also Quote:
Notice: Methylene Chloride based products are for industrial use only. Use only in well ventilated area with proper protective equipment.

How do you "smell it" with a supplied air respirator in a well ventilated area? OSHA must not visit your "industrial work environment" ? wink

beerchug

Although they say industrial use only, they were happy to sell me a 5 gallon bucket. No problem shipping except for a hiccup at the border. The carrier couldn’t bring it across, so I had to go get it.
I have a full face respirator with fancy filters and recently bought a proper fresh air fed mask…. but confess that I have used small amounts outside without a respirator, so I know for sure it stinks. I also know it removes skin at a rapid rate, so anyone dumb enough to use it without proper gear should make sure there is a source of water close by. After rinsing and pressure washing, aluminum castings go through the pots and pans cycle in the dishwasher, so everyone else in the house also knows what it smells like. What’s OSHA?

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Ah yes PNW above the border (not washington or oregon)

OSHA
Occupational Safety Health Administration (USA)

When people get real sick or killed in industry and town or state incompetents fail to do the job they are like the FBI of industrial accident/events.

Like my town has NO industrial or commercial zoning. So except for the fact my property has been in continuous use since (WW2) before 1955, the beginning of town zoning rules, such as commercial...industrial, the town- state can not stop me , but I am not exempt from following state and federal rules. I could not risk having an employee getting sick or dying. No problem if I kill or poison myself....they don't normally jail dead people....just bury them.


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The rules are probably just as strict up here. Seems like B.C. follows California.

Since this thread is about powder coating… it surprises me how many tines I see videos of people spraying it without masks. Fine enough to get deep into your lungs and it’s not going anywhere once it gets in there.

I have my own powder coating setup and use it for small bits. Brackets, engine plates etc. It’s a bit of a PITA, but at least I can control the thickness and avoid some of the problems. I wonder sometimes if the commercial guys use a thicker coating just to avoid the possibility of having to do it over… which is time consuming. I don’t have an oven big enough to do frames, but still not sure I would ever powder coat one anyway. Most of the frames around here are subject to cracking. I recently swore off powder coating because of the mess, but kept coming up with small jobs that I didn’t feel like painting or sending out. Decided to build a (hopefully) better booth.

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If I remember correctly, MEK was banned because the family of a man pushed for it after he died using it to strip a floor in an unventilated room. When I heard the ban was coming, I bought two half gallon cans. I wanted it for plastic repairs.

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you can use carburetor spray to clean a bathtub too.

but you have to do it while holding your breath and periodically exiting to replenush your oxygen.

but it does work.


i'm old enough to remember when patriotism meant not trying to overthrow the government.
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MEK is available in the US and Canada. Hardware stores carry it here or you can buy it on EBay. In the grand scheme of things, it’s actually not that bad. I’d rather bathe in MEK than carb cleaner or gasoline. We’ll probably all eat some before the day is out.



https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Methyl-ethyl-ketone

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022030262893965

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i just observed the carb cleaner technique i dontactually recommend it


but hey, we dont use carbon tetrachlorude much anymore, so thats a win.


i'm old enough to remember when patriotism meant not trying to overthrow the government.
kevin #887446 08/04/22 5:23 pm
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Originally Posted by kevin
i just observed the carb cleaner technique i dontactually recommend it


but hey, we dont use carbon tetrachlorude much anymore, so thats a win.

I didn’t really interpret it as a recommendation. I’ve read lots of horror stories about using carb cleaner to clean parts prior to TIG welding, but have never actually found any technical articles or papers on the subject. I don’t use the stuff and have found that MEK is pretty much unbeatable when it come to removing varnish from carbs and fuel tanks.
Also handy for unsticking gas and diesel model airplane engines. For some strange reason I have an abundance of them…. in the low triple digits somewhere. A large percentage of them are stuck from petrified lubricant and they are difficult to disassemble util they sit in a bath of MEK.

Every once in a while the dangerous chemical discussions send me off the deep end. The next door neighbour send out clouds of noxious chemicals. By all rights, I should be wearing my air supplied respirator while sitting on my deck. The 200 some odd chemicals ( including benzene which is carcinogenic at any level) eminent from their cloths dryer. If folks read some of the scientific publications on perfumed detergents and especially fabric softeners…. they’d quickly learn to live without the stuff..
Sorry… a little far removed from powder coating.

Cyborg #887451 08/04/22 5:56 pm
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Originally Posted by Cyborg
...Sorry… a little far removed from powder coating.
Not if it turns out Fleecy is cheaper than MEK.


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I’d rather snort MEK than wear something washed or dried using Fleecy.

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I've used power coat on the frame, swinging arm, and triple trees on my Norton Commando without issue.

I did read the horror stories on OldBrits about the dangers of using powder coat on the engine & gearbox cradle and also the front engine ISO mount, so chose to spray these items with standard aerosol paint, blanking off any mounting points with washers.

A few thousand miles later, there doesn't seem to be any issue, so I'm content that the powder coat is OK.

For me using a powder coat on the frame was a no-brainier since I could take the complete frame and swinging arm down to a local company, and have the whole lot grit blasted ( whilst taking attention to sealing off any openings) and powder coated for less than £100.

If I was interested in originality, then yes I could have had the frame painted, but that would have taken a lot more time and expense than I'm willing to expend.

Powder coating has its opponents mainly due to the problems removing it, but I've not had an issue with it in over 20 years of using it,


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gunner #887500 08/04/22 11:28 pm
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Originally Posted by gunner
I've used power coat on the frame, swinging arm, and triple trees on my Norton Commando without issue.

I did read the horror stories on OldBrits about the dangers of using powder coat on the engine & gearbox cradle and also the front engine ISO mount, so chose to spray these items with standard aerosol paint, blanking off any mounting points with washers.

A few thousand miles later, there doesn't seem to be any issue, so I'm content that the powder coat is OK.

For me using a powder coat on the frame was a no-brainier since I could take the complete frame and swinging arm down to a local company, and have the whole lot grit blasted ( whilst taking attention to sealing off any openings) and powder coated for less than £100.

If I was interested in originality, then yes I could have had the frame painted, but that would have taken a lot more time and expense than I'm willing to expend.

Powder coating has its opponents mainly due to the problems removing it, but I've not had an issue with it in over 20 years of using it,

I was trying to find some reliable information on the subject, but it seems hard to come by. There are obviously lots of frames that are powder coated and never have an issue. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some motorcycle manufacturers that use it. Some aircraft manufacturers (including Maule if I’m not mistaken) use it on their airframes. On another forum, I was trying to drum up some info, and another member who’s company does (amongst other things) remove powder coating from aircraft parts in accident investigations chimed in. I had mentioned that I wanted to test some bits with stress cracks. Powder coat them and then see how efficiently the crack telegraphs to the surface when put under load. He came back with:

“Talking to one of our chemists he confirms powder coat does hide cracks is flexible enough not to tell tale, that is why it is only used in certain places on aircraft.
It is also not used in certain places on aircraft or airside to prevent possible static discharge.”

I’ve heard third hand that folks are discouraged from coating aircraft engine mounts/subframes, but haven’t found anything in print from a reliable source. A couple of my frames have lived a hard life and already have crack repairs so definitely not good candidates for powder coating. I painted the frame of my bastardized Comet with the 2K rattle can stuff from Germany. About 25 a can in your money. I would gladly use it again.

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Couldn't help noticing in the latest AN Newsletter

Part 06.1130, Commando 750 Frame, 1968 to 1970, Black powder coated: £1,570.65

https://andover-norton.co.uk/img/imagescaler/f6/f6f0a914289454b29a37a3dea2c63a82.jpg

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Anything is better than the paint (or lack of) applied to frames from mid sixties onwards. Most look like they have just caught a bit of overspray from another job.
Professional paint strippers will remove powder coat easily, unlike the stuff they sell in B&Q. Any paint stripping I need gets done by https://paint-strip.co.uk/ No mess, no struggles, I just drop it off and collect a few days later


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