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I have a BSA 441 Victor Special and I am trying to determine its worth. I am looking to sell it. I am 71 years old and looking at a knee replacement (kicking knee of course!). It has the following characteristics and upgrades:

1. 1967 engine (round head) in a 1969 frame
2. External oil filter (new)
3. Pazon Sure-Fire Electronic ignition (new)
4. Lucas ignition coil (new)
5. 200 W Lucas Type High Output Stator Alternator (new)
6. New clutch
7. Many other pieces & parts (receipts available)

I would appreciate any feedback from anyone who has an idea of what they think it might be worth. Pictures and video of it running are available.
Thanks and feel free to contact me privately.

Dean Wickline
[email protected]

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Dean, I'm sending you a PM...

Edit- No, I guess I'm not. There is a new policy on PMs here, that seems to have some major glitches...

I'll send you an email.

Last edited by Steve Erickson; 07/31/22 1:25 am.
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Hi Steve - I don't seem to have an email from you. Maybe you can't send one from here.

Dean

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Copied and pasted your email address from your post, and emailed last night? My "sent" box shows it went out.

Geez, I really am one of the Untouchable Caste...

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If you are related to Dale Wickline, I like you already, Dean.


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Well Dean, as I don't seem to be able to PM or email you, maybe a kind soul will step up and offer to post some pix for you?

Unit Single guys are used to a little persecution, but this is gettin' ridiculous...

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I would offer to help but I really don’t like being the one popping that bubble.

Last couple of folks I tried helping both had nice bikes BUT they were only worth a fraction of what the owners thought they were worth.

I love to see bikes up for sale here but this “probably” isn’t the best place to look for a buyer. Brit bike owners can be a “bit” on the cheap side and most on here already have a garage full.

That said, bikes do sell on here so there’s always a chance the bike you have is exactly what someone is looking for.

But be forewarned……that bike you think is worth $8000 because you saw where one sold for that……..”might” be a $1500-$2000 sale if you get lucky enough to find a buyer.

Hopefully someone else will step up to help.

Gordon


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The word "WORTH" is one of those things that can have so many working meanings, depending on the context.

1. It's worth what the owner SAYS it is worth to him. That has no relation to a possible sale price, though.
2. It's worth what the owner "Has In It". That also has no relation to a possible sale price.
3. It's worth what "one like it sold for on Bring-A-Trailer". That's getting closer to reality, but the one on B.A.T. may have been in much better condition, or in 100% stock condition, or in the right part of the country. As Gordon says, yours may vary very much in potential sales price.

The actual real-world definition for a man looking to sell a motorcycle of "worth" is "It's worth what it will bring in a well-advertised, well-run auction". People don't want to hear that sometimes, because that number doesn't square with their Hope, or with items 1. or 2. above, but it's an undeniable fact. A person might hang onto a bike for years, with the philosophy of "I'm not going to give it away for less than I know it is "worth"", but that's definition 1.

Or, if you're me and want to sell the bike, not argue with the world about what it is Worth, you might put the bike up on a nationwide auction site where 400 interested people are looking at it every day monitoring the price, with money in their hand, and start it off at $0, no reserve, and let the world tell you what it is worth, and you take the money and let the man have the bike. It's an urban myth that bikes go for "less than they are worth" in such a situation.

So it really all depends on whether you are really ready to sell or not, or are you just looking to see if someone will validate your idea of what it is worth, and if you don't, you just keep it? Either way is OK.

Since yours doesn't have a matching frame and engine, and has some non standard upgrades, you will never get "Top Price" on a BAT or Mecum auction, so no $8,000 fantasies in the near future.

The BSA 441 Hard Core Riders will be looking at your bike, and they will be looking to pay a price that will be less than what it would cost them to take a project bike and get it into the condition that yours is in.

It USED to be that if a 441 upgraded rider was $X, then an A65 in the same condition would be $1.5X, and an A10 in the same condition would be $2X. Not anymore. 441s and A65 riders are about the same price, and an A10 about $1.5X.

So I'd say $4000.

Lannis


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Originally Posted by Lannis
So I'd say $4000.

Lannis


We really need photos……I’d agree with Lannis IF

Tires are within the age limit. (this isn’t a Hornet)
All chrome in good shape.
Stock dent-free tank. ( stock paint a plus)
Stock seat cover and trim, no tears or dents. (Aftermarket cover a minus)
Speedo working w/no dented trim ring or broken glass
No extra holes or cracks in fenders
battery cover present and solid
Chain and sprockets still useable and guard present
Head pipe and muffler in good shape. (no dents or rust)
Engine running without any major problems

Too many “nos” about those items $2500-$3000

In my opinion……without matching numbers, to make Lannis’ number the rest of it needs to be pretty nice.

Gota have good photos……of all the stuff I mentioned that can be photoed.

Gordon.

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 08/01/22 5:25 pm.

Gordon Gray in NC, USA........"Trees are for traction"


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Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
Too many “nos” about those items $2500-$3000

In my opinion……without matching numbers, to make Lannis’ number the rest of it needs to be pretty nice.

Gota have good photos……of all the stuff I mentioned that can be photoed.

Gordon.

Yes, exactly.


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Originally Posted by Lannis
.....Since yours doesn't have a matching frame and engine,....... you will never get "Top Price" on a BAT or Mecum auction, so no $8,000 fantasies in the near future..........
I recently sold a very attractive, tastefully modified, non-matching number 1968 B25 with a B44B engine in it. I started at $4800 and months later sold it for $2000. It was a hard sell which, may just be a sign of our times right now. However victors, even non matching, seem to have more sales appeal so the OP could likely get a bit more more for his.

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Agree with Gordon and Lannis. A non matching numbers bike is about 50-60% value of a matching numbers bike in the same condition. He didn’t actually say it was a non matching bike. He said it was a 67 Round Barrel motor. Maybe it’s a 69 with a round barrel and head bolted on it. A friend of mine did that. It looked great and the numbers still matched.

Last edited by Roadwarrior; 08/01/22 11:27 pm.

Who are the Brain Police?

68 B44 Victor
60 MGA
56 Chevy

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Originally Posted by Roadwarrior
Agree with Gordon and Lannis. A non matching numbers bike is about 50-60% value of a matching numbers bike in the same condition. He didn’t actually say it was a non matching bike. He said it was a 67 Round Barrel motor. Maybe it’s a 69 with a round barrel and head bolted on it. A friend of mine did that. It looked great and the numbers still matched.

I think he says it's a 67 engine......then calls it a round barrel.

I just got a good deal on a B44R from a member I consider a friend........so I got the buddy price. $2600. Some of the things on my list needed attention but over all it's a very good bike. Absolutely the best running one I have. IF I was to sell it today I'd ask $3200 because of what I've put into it since I got it.

Stuart, I'm kinda fond of a centerstand. As much as I love a Victor Special........A B44 in a B25 is a pretty good swap IMO. $2000 was a deal for the buyer. I agree with you 100%.....prices seem to be soft right now.

Okay.........if the OP (Dean?) wants to send me some photos I'll post them for him. dad1150 at AOL dot com. Bet someone has already PM'ed him.

Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 08/01/22 11:52 pm.

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Never had a center stand B44. Sounds nice.


Who are the Brain Police?

68 B44 Victor
60 MGA
56 Chevy

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Originally Posted by DeanInAnnapolis
Hi Steve - I don't seem to have an email from you. Maybe you can't send one from here.

Dean


I just sent you an email Dean.......see the addy in my last reply. Subject BritBike.com

Gordon


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Originally Posted by Roadwarrior
Never had a center stand B44. Sounds nice.

I started BSA unit single ownership with a B40E and a B44VS. Always loved both the VS and the Enduro Star, neither of which had a center stand. Steve (the garage sale moderator) had a friend that wanted to sell a B44R and I got it........my first unit single with a center stand. I don't know how I got by without one.

Gordon


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Dean......I've sent you a Private Message.

Gordon


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Guess I scared him off. I’ll try to do better but the last two I tried to help were nice bikes and nice fellows selling but it just didn’t work out for them ( as far as I know)

But like I said, I’ll try to be more helpful and not so negative next time.

Gordon


Gordon Gray in NC, USA........"Trees are for traction"


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Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
Guess I scared him off. I’ll try to do better but the last two I tried to help were nice bikes and nice fellows selling but it just didn’t work out for them ( as far as I know)

But like I said, I’ll try to be more helpful and not so negative next time.

Gordon

There's been nothing negative in this thread, just helpful, objective, and experience based advice. It's what I'd want to hear if I asked for advice.....

Lannis


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Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
Guess I scared him off. I’ll try to do better but the last two I tried to help were nice bikes and nice fellows selling but it just didn’t work out for them ( as far as I know)

But like I said, I’ll try to be more helpful and not so negative next time.

Gordon

There's been nothing negative in this thread, just helpful, objective, and experience based advice. It's what I'd want to hear if I asked for advice.....

Lannis

I concur.


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Geeze......NOW I feel bad. I forgot Dean said he's 71....looking to get knee replacement. Somehow I transformed him in my head into a impatient 20 year old that had got mad and ran off. ( hey, you saw where that Mike photo got to) Since I'm also 71......I wonder if Dean has some of my same problems? I suffer from CRS in an advanced condition. Not sure where all these fantasies are coming from??

This is an interesting motorcycle.......lots of stuff going on.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Please direct questions and comments back to Dean.

More to come

G

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 08/03/22 11:23 pm.

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More photos

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

He has a few more photos and a video of a cold start that I will post in a bit

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 08/04/22 10:32 am.

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Hopefully we have figured out the problem I was having downloading the cold start video.

Let’s have some input now that there are some photos.

My take……a lot of none standard bits. Not sure what the front end is off of. battery cover is missing……could be some of the tabs for it and the battery tray are missing too? Odd front fender set up. Headlight not a VS.

I can’t tell for sure but the tank looks like it has paint instead of the polished alloy area.

It’s a ways ($$$) from being a Victor Special. IMO it’s a BSA B44 special. Not going to bring $4000. If it runs good maybe somewhere between $1800 and $2500????? Just my opinion……worth exactly what you paid for it.

Anybody else want to comment?

G

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 08/04/22 6:41 pm.

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Gordon
The front forks are Ceriani

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Yes, those forks are worth a grand by themselves and it takes machine work to install them properly. Definitely a plus, IF you intend to dirt ride it.

I notice it has the '67 type oil tank and the B44EA engine is definitely 1967. Are we sure it it a '69 frame? Can we get a shot of the frame number?

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I’m not familiar enough with Ceriani to recognize them. I did a couple of swaps but went with B50 forks.

But if they are worth thousand. You could take them off. Sell them then purchase the correct front end with wheel, brake and fender. What ya think $600 if you’re lucky? Oh then you’d need the correct headlight. If a person was turning it back into a Victor Special.

So…….you might come out ahead by $400 or so if you don’t value your time.

The bike would be pretty worthless without a front end.

I wondered about the frame too. Hopefully when I get home he’s sent the video and a couple more photos. Might be a frame number in those?

I would think he’s reading this thread.

Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 08/04/22 8:44 pm.

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Yeah, I've got Ceriani forks with Race Tech cartridge emulators on both my B50 and My DB34GS dirt bikes. That setup is much easier on my wrists and arms. Well worth it for vintage dual sport riding.

Last edited by Stuart Kirk; 08/04/22 8:53 pm.
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I love threads like this one, especially when a bb.com member ends up with the bike and it turns out to be a cool bike when it's all fixed up.

C'Mon fellows, let's jump on it!

I'll Paypal $100 to any member that buys it, to help get going...

Last edited by GrandPaul; 08/04/22 9:17 pm.

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Originally Posted by Stuart Kirk
Yeah, I've got Ceriani forks with Race Tech cartridge emulators on both my B50 and My DB34GS dirt bikes. That setup is much easier on my wrists and arms. Well worth it for vintage dual sport riding.

I could see that. I've always heard good things about them but have never actually rode a bike with them.

I can tell you a story about a fellow who had a brand new 1968 Victor Special. Lived in the Southern California desert. Friends had Huskies and Yamaha DT1s. Took off on a group ride...... about 5 of them.......his first time on the Victor in the desert. Wicked fast........left everybody in his dust. Just flying and came up on some woop de doos. (sp?) made it through the first couple but after that things got ugly.......fast. He kept the bike but settled on small Hondas for the rest of his desert riding days.

IMO you can easily ride a VS on gravel/dirt roads, some single track but it's suspension just can't handle the rough stuff......at speed. Combine that with how much it weighs. YES......it can be done (was and is).......but IMO if you're going to ride rough off road on one I'd consider the Ceriani forks an upgrade.

I have to say this about this bike being offered......I love that round barrel.......and the oil tank. 1967 was a good year for me.

Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 08/04/22 10:45 pm.

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Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
.... Combine that with how much it weighs. ......
Putting non BSA wheels and hubs on one can take off around 30 lbs. My '65 C15 with Husky forks, wheels and Marzocchi triple clamps weighed in around 240 dry. It makes a huge difference. That Ceefer frame now has a B44EA engine in it. Guess I should weigh it, dirt and all and see how heavy it is.

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Not a '69 frame because it only has the one lug to mount the muffler. Oil tank is also early one with screw on lid. Could be '67 frame. Swing arm looks to have later chainguard mounting.


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Originally Posted by Stuart Kirk
Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
.... Combine that with how much it weighs. ......
Putting non BSA wheels and hubs on one can take off around 30 lbs. My '65 C15 with Husky forks, wheels and Marzocchi triple clamps weighed in around 240 dry. It makes a huge difference. That Ceefer frame now has a B44EA engine in it. Guess I should weigh it, dirt and all and see how heavy it is.
[quote=Stuart Kirk]

Stuart……on the off road unit singles I built I used AJS Stormer and Husky wheels. I got rid of the bikes but still have some Stormer and Husky brake/front end bits around here somewhere.

I used to race desert on a little bike. The big bikes would blow by me on the lake beds and fire roads but a lot of times I could catch back up in the tight stuff. At the end of the day I was still worn out but can’t imagine what those guys on bikes that weighed 100+ lbs more than mine were feeling.

I do remember one hound and hare where we’d gotten into a VERY rocky section. Only way to make any time was to go fast enough to stay on top of the rocks. But sooner or later you’d go down hard and have to start all over again. Your out there with a couple of thousand other riders and you have no clue exactly what your position was in the race……but you knew for sure you weren’t first. I passed a fellow who was struggling to get his bike up….not exactly sure what it was but it was a BSA……..I’ll never forget that look on his face.

Hopefully the OP will set us straight on the frame. I didn’t have a mail from him last night when I got home. The last one he sent was asking me to sign in to Google to open the files???? The other photos came attached to a mail…..easy.

Reliving some old times…….Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 08/05/22 12:38 pm.

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Frame # is B44VS 8028. Engine # is B44EA 847.

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Stuart - The Frame # is B44VS 8028. If I knew how to post a picture I would...
dean

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Originally Posted by DeanInAnnapolis
Stuart - The Frame # is B44VS 8028. If I knew how to post a picture I would...
dean

Email it to me Dean and I’ll post it tonight when I get home from work.

That last email you sent with 3 photos and the cold start video…….wanted me to sign into Google???? The other 2 email just had photos attached. I’m not sure why there’s a difference but as far as I know I’ve never “ signed into” Google?

Gordon

Does the bike have a title?

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 08/05/22 2:53 pm.

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Originally Posted by DeanInAnnapolis
.... The Frame # is B44VS 8028......
It does Look like a 1969 number but it possibly should have a couple more letters in it to designate the month and year of production. BSA made that change in 1969.

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Originally Posted by Stuart Kirk
Originally Posted by DeanInAnnapolis
.... The Frame # is B44VS 8028......
It does Look like a 1969 number but it possibly should have a couple more letters in it to designate the month and year of production. BSA made that change in 1969.

Yes sir......here's an example of a 69 VS frame number. February 1969. I had already been in the service for 5-6 months???

[Linked Image]

These are NOT the numbers for the bike that's for sale......just one I have hanging around.

I'm going to take a look at that muffler mounting mentioned. So many little things were changed. I learn one..... forget two. I'm going to dig around for a 67 Enduro frame and compare.

I'll post Dean's numbers just as soon as he gets them to me.

I would LOVE to hear some more input about price........I could be WAY off base.....I live in a pretty small world.

$2000 $3000 $4000 ??????? Still a little more to learn about it but........come on fellows the guy's asking.

Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 08/06/22 2:10 am.

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Really............no one else has an opinion on price. Or......are you waiting for the photo of the frame number and if it has a title?

Gordon


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Gordon,
We do not have the full frame number. So if the frame number indicates that the vintage is the same as the motor, i.e. 1967, then the price would be higher in my opinion, than if the frame number indicates a later vintage., say 1969. I would say $2500-3500. It also matters where you are, as prices tend to be higher in areas of higher population.

I'm not sure why it matters, but in any case, if Dean wants to sell it, it's up to him to establish a starting price. I recently sold a very nice CB350 cafe bike which I started on Kijiji (like craigslist) at $4500CDN, then $3900, then $3400, and finally sold it for $2500 US which is roughly equivalent to $3300 CDN.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Here is one that sold for an exceptionally low price on Ebay, despite appearing very original with matching numbers. https://www.ebay.com/itm/275373030833?hash=item401d82fdb1:g:LwwAAOSw4Dtiwli-

Tom

Last edited by koncretekid; 08/07/22 1:52 pm.

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Originally Posted by koncretekid
Gordon,
We do not have the full frame number. So if the frame number indicates that the vintage is the same as the motor, i.e. 1967, then the price would be higher in my opinion, than if the frame number indicates a later vintage., say 1969. I would say $2500-3500. It also matters where you are, as prices tend to be higher in areas of higher population.

I'm not sure why it matters, but in any case, if Dean wants to sell it, it's up to him to establish a starting price. I recently sold a very nice CB350 cafe bike which I started on Kijiji (like craigslist) at $4500CDN, then $3900, then $3400, and finally sold it for $2500 US which is roughly equivalent to $3300 CDN.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

I agree 100% about the frame.......and the more I look at the bike the more I think it's worth at least the higher end of my estimate. The wheels are really nice ( hard for me to find like that) and that front wheel is probably the stock VS item?

Very nice CB.....I've always had a soft spot for Honda singles and twins. I've lusted for a Black Bomber for decades....closest I came was a CB77.

Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 08/07/22 1:53 pm.

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kk wrote "Here is one that sold for an exceptionally low price on Ebay, despite appearing very original with matching numbers. https://www.ebay.com/itm/275373030833?hash=item401d82fdb1:g:LwwAAOSw4Dtiwli-"

I think that is a good example of where unit single prices are today.

Gordon

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Originally Posted by koncretekid
I'm not sure why it matters, but in any case, if Dean wants to sell it, it's up to him to establish a starting price.

Tom

I would say that if Dean wants to sell it, it's up to the Buyer to establish a selling price.

The Seller can establish "starting prices" all day long, but that's not going to sell the bike unless it is what the BUYER believes it's worth.

The key (as I said above in a wordy post and won't re-hash) is whether Dean wants to SELL IT, or just feel around for what the price MIGHT be and keep it in his garage if his idea and the worlds' idea of "value" don't match.

Lannis


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Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
kk wrote "Here is one that sold for an exceptionally low price on Ebay, despite appearing very original with matching numbers. https://www.ebay.com/itm/275373030833?hash=item401d82fdb1:g:LwwAAOSw4Dtiwli-"

I think that is a good example of where unit single prices are today.

Gordon

I've been spending some time buying, selling, monitoring, taking notes, and bidding on Bring-A-Trailer in the past year or so.

My observation is that stock, matching, needs-nothing bikes of any type are going for what I consider "stupid money". Can't believe what plain-vanilla /2 and /5 Beemers are going for, like a R60/5 that was very nice but not perfect going for $16,000.

On the other end, sort of rough projects, rollers with the engines not frozen, need some spokes, but complete, are going for just over scrap steel 8 cents a pound money.

And good running bikes like the ones I have and would ride anywhere, but with rideability improvements or dents and nicks and patches are going cheap these days, 25% less than you could have gotten for them 6 years ago.

Seems that buyers want a bike they don't have to do anything AT ALL to, and will pay for that ....

Lannis


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Not that this can be taken too seriously, but Hagerty recently advised me to up the value of the 1970 Bonnie and Commando.

"Our team of valuation experts recommend increasing the values on these vehicles".


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Originally Posted by Lannis
Seems that buyers want a bike they don't have to do anything AT ALL to, and will pay for that ....

Lannis

Relatively recently I have slid towards that category. I have one major project on the go and more waiting in the wings. I’m half heartedly looking for a bike to ride and at this point don’t even want to think about having to change the oil.
I suppose older folk are starting to realize they may not finish their projects and can’t take their money with them. The only thing holding me back is the Scottish ancestry. I’d gladly forgo the spit polish for 25% off. Rather have one that’s properly sorted with a bit of character.

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Originally Posted by Cyborg
Originally Posted by Lannis
Seems that buyers want a bike they don't have to do anything AT ALL to, and will pay for that ....

Lannis

Relatively recently I have slid towards that category. I have one major project on the go and more waiting in the wings. I’m half heartedly looking for a bike to ride and at this point don’t even want to think about having to change the oil.
I suppose older folk are starting to realize they may not finish their projects and can’t take their money with them. The only thing holding me back is the Scottish ancestry. I’d gladly forgo the spit polish for 25% off. Rather have one that’s properly sorted with a bit of character.

I'm in that category. Probably slipped into it a few years back but was in denial and still collecting projects.......now all of them are just collecting dust. The major project sits there with everything ready to be assembled. Only an external oil filter to be sorted. The only thing I've accomplished lately is.......ignoring it.

Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 08/07/22 4:21 pm.

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I did some checking on koncretekids comment about the silencer mounting. I should have taken some photos but he’s 100% correct. At least it conforms with what I found in my stash. The 69 VS has a double hole tab for the muffler. The 67 used the older single hole version. (good catch)

I’d have to think it would have been a lot of trouble to cut the 69s off and re-weld the early type back on???? Why would you do that?

So……it’s still a mystery. We need Dean to send me a photo of the frame number so I can post it. I’d agree that if it’s actually a 67 frame it adds a bit to the value IMO even if the numbers don’t match.

Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 08/08/22 11:27 am.

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If the frame is a 69, it should have fairing lugs at the headstock.

Though very early 69s could be exceptions(?).

Covid sux.

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Originally Posted by Steve Erickson
If the frame is a 69, it should have fairing lugs at the headstock.

Though very early 69s could be exceptions(?).

Covid sux.

OH NO!!!!! BTDT and agree 100%.

Hope you’re over the worst of it.

G

PS, second photo of the bike shows the headstock…..no fairing lugs?

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Thanx G, hope I am too...

Saw that photo, why I crawled from the grave to post that.

One more... footpeg assemblies are 66/67 type it appears. Wouldn't work on 69 frame.

...back to the crypt...

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I have nothing but sympathy my friend. Rest and get better.

Yep.........don't need NCIS to tell us it's looking more and more like a 67 frame. Which is a good thing. But you can't help but wonder where the 1969 comes in.....there has to be a story.

Gordon


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Unsure whether the '69 had the muffler heat sheild, but that's for sure a '66/67 tail light.


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Not a word from Dean......

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My last Victor Special. Purchased from a member.......passed on to another. Hopefully I'll get another one put together before I'm too old to ride it.

G

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 08/13/22 1:30 am.

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What I see in the pictures is a bit confusing if the frame is stamped with a 1970 number.

The frame has the typical footpeg mounts of a 1966 to 1967 round barrel frame. These mount simply did not appear on later frames. The frame on the underside is different because of the mounts (with a cross frame tube between them).

The 1967 oil tank would be a pain to mount in a 1970 frame because it needs a cross brace in the correct position to bolt the tank to. It could be done but fabricating something would be necessary.

The exhaust pipe and muffler are 1967 items. And the frame mount for them is correct for a 1967 frame. The muffler mount would have had to have had to be cut off and then a donor from a 1967 would have had to be cut off a 1967 frame and then welded onto the 1970 frame. The lug we see is not a home made item, rather one that would have come with a 1967 frame.

A previous owner struggled to mount a battery, wrecking the 1967 airbox on the bike. This would not have happened if the frame were a 1970 as there was a different oil tank and the bike came with a fine battery tray already. So why put in the wrong oil tank to then have to get an airbox from an earlier Victor, then butcher it and then do a hack job mounting a battery tray??

The tail light is from a 1967 model. If one mounted it on a 1970 fender there would be a bunch of extra holes as the mounting holes are in different locations.

The swing arm on the bike last appeared on 1968 models as it has the upward facing lug above the rear brake stay mount. The chain guard has the mounting hook on the back typical of 1969 or 1970 bikes but it also has been mounted to the swing arm above the brake stay. I have seen other dual rear mount chain guards like this one, I actually have a 1967 B44EA with the identical chain guard. So it was something BSA did.

There is no key switch mount on the left side of the frame below the rear of the gas tank which should be there if it were a 1970 frame.

So where am I going with all this info?? I'd venture to say that the motor and frame are both from 1967. It would be a tremendous amount of work to totally alter a 1970 frame to have all of these 1967 details. I'm talking about having to had a 1967 frame to chop up to weld in the parts into a 1970 frame. Not very likely!!

I'll guess that the frame number was re-stamped. The reality of having the correct frame and engine together, even if not matching number make the bike worth more than a round barrel motor sitting in a 1970 frame. But not a lot, More of an ascetic plus. The bike could be brought back to stock condition fairly easily by the next owner it that was desired. Value of bike, around $ 3000 because of the frame number stamping issue. If not for that the value would be higher.


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3000 BSA part numbers with inventory in stock just for the unit singles!
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I keep a watch on bringatrailer.com . They usually bring good auction bids for older vintage and classic bikes. Usually the bids are surprisingly strong but I have noticed a decline in the bidding for all but the most blue chip of bikes. (Japanese two stroke road bikes from the 70s and 80s are the exception) I can't say what a non numbers matching, non standard, 441 would bring but if it's not imperative that it be sold you might want to hang on to it.

Oh. . .the tank looks like it has clear coat over the polished alloy area. It also might be grey paint to cover some body work.


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Mecum Vegas auction results are in. Some 441s fetched decent money.


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paul, do u have a link?

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Annapolis is not far from me. Wondering if this is the same Dean Wickline I knew in the 80s when i lived on Kent Island, MD.

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A bit late maybe and I might’ve missed it BUT didn’t see this mentioned- one can always do a search for completed sales and auctions on [email protected] as good an indicator as one can get IF sales are recent-ish?

Another hopefully helpful hint, RE: emails. Lots of email programs send emails from addresses not in one’s contacts list, straight to the junk folder.

Not seeing an email someone said they sent? Do a search of all inboxes. Should cover the junk folder too? If not, open “junk” and scroll OR search the junk folder specifically.

Best luck to the OP in his sale of this bike!


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Paul, one fetched decent money... it was reminiscent of the Don Harrell Victor resto examples he'd bring a couple/several of to Vegas every year before his passing. They always fetched north of $10K. And were immaculate. I suspect that bike may once have been one of his.

The other typically used but relatively clean examples on the block didn't fare too well, IMO... probably would have done better with other venues.

Mecum bike auction sales have said to me for some time, go excellent or stay home...

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The Mecum auctions solicited the established renown restorers to bring bikes to help build their show. They would spend more time on those auctions to drive the bids up in return. Not that the bikes didn't deserve the prices, they were the best there. The less presentable machines are pushed through quickly and don't get the time for bids to build. The point is that it is all a manufactured show and to use the values from that auction as what normal values are is misconstrued.


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well regardless, value is only what someone will pay. in this case plus fees. so it is what it is. misconstrued or otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Boomer
The point is that it (Mecum) is all a manufactured show and to use the values from that auction as what normal values are is misconstrued.
While you have a valid point, I was only posting the reference as it was timely, the auction had just ended and I noted a few 441s had sold.

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Some years ago when a really nice vs coull be had for under $5k I built one for Baxter that he took to Vegas and it went for $10k plus buyer fee. the next year another really nice one went for almost 11,000. the following year saw every pos victor show up at the auction like all of a sudden they were valuable.

they weren't.


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Not surprised in the least.

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. Hi, Dean in Annapolis MD and I am back on the forum from being gone for a while. The BSA is mine. As near as I can tell from the frame #, it is a 1969 frame not a 1970 frame. Having said that, is there any interest out there in buying the bike? Whatever an offer I get, the buyer would also have to pay for shipping like I did when I bought it from a guy in Oregon. If you want to email me directly just send me a private message and include your email address.

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Hi Dean,
Could you post a photo of the frame number? That might help too. (Or forward it to one of us that could?)

Thanks

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Frame # B44VS 8028

Engine # B44EA 847

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