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Getting back on topic:

Originally Posted by Shane in Oz
If you're going to be such a cheapskate, you probably won't go with the following approach, either :
Rather than mucking about with air compressors, filters, moisture traps, multiple pressure regulators and desiccants, use the bottled nitrogen...
That would be a fine idea and, at ~5 cfm, the gas in one cylinder would paint quite a few motorcycles. However, at ~$250 for a filled cylinder and ~$225 for a pressure regulator, there wouldn't be a lot of difference in price if I were to have done it that way. Plus, the Ar, Ar/He, O2, and acetylene tanks I already have take up a lot of room so another tank, with the strap to hold it against the wall, wouldn't be a welcome addition.

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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Surprisingly, even though both air and water have been around for quite a while (unverified reports suggest maybe for even more than 500 years...), what we know about the thermal properties of humid air is based on theoretical models that have yet to be experimentally verified.
I'm not so sure about that.

According to this engineering article, the Mason and Saxena approximation formula was experimentally validated by Cheung et al 60 years ago.

Engineers have quite an interest in working fluids, so engineering departments tend to do lots of experiments to empirically derive tables and graphs. To be fair, the focus is on enthalpy.

They also tend to be more content with lower precision than experimental physicists, so there is much less ongoing work to refine the figures.

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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Plus, the Ar, Ar/He, O2, and acetylene tanks I already have take up a lot of room so another tank, with the strap to hold it against the wall, wouldn't be a welcome addition.
You don't have a plasma arc cutter? You'll fall behind in the tooling wars.

Originally Posted by Magnetoman
~$250 for a filled cylinder and ~$225 for a pressure regulator
The bottles are at least twice that much here frown

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Originally Posted by Shane in Oz
[quote You don't have a plasma arc cutter? You'll fall behind in the tooling wars.


Not much chance of him falling behind, but I’ll take solace in the fact that I could slice and dice a Caterpillar D11T CD in a matter of hours and he can’t.

MM… don’t you think you should be incorporating a data logger?

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Originally Posted by Shane in Oz
You don't have a plasma arc cutter? You'll fall behind in the tooling wars.
The screeching sound you heard was, once again, this thread lurching from one off-topic to another...

I bought a plasma cutter for my lab, but in 20 years I never used it and I can't remember my technician doing so either. Other than making engine plates, I can't think of any motorcycle-related uses for a plasma cutter, and it wouldn't even be essential for engine plates. I'd be interested if someone who owns one has some examples they could share.

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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Other than making engine plates, I can't think of any motorcycle-related uses for a plasma cutter, and it wouldn't even be essential for engine plates. I'd be interested if someone who owns one has some examples they could share.
Pretending to get back on topic, you could use it to cut out the pieces to make a new UFM

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Originally Posted by Shane in Oz
Pretending to get back on topic, you could use it to cut out the pieces to make a new UFM
Now that you mention it, if I had needed to cut open my UFM to clean out stubborn deposits that couldn't be removed any other way, which I didn't need to do, a plasma cutter would be one way to cut a "manhole cover" into it.

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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
I'd be interested if someone who owns one has some examples they could share.
I dont have one of my own but a close friend has one that I use occasionally. Its something on my own list of tools to get in the not too distant future, in fact if money were no barrier a CNC plasma cutter would be near the top of my list (as would a CNC router).

However, I am pretty sure old motorcycle related tasks would be uncommon. I could see a use if one were building jigs or maybe a wheel or crank truing stand or similar

I like to make stuff and often have to repair stuff. For example I have some repairs and some replacement parts to make for my old telehandler and a plasma cutter would be very handy. However, for motorcycle work, there is a lot of stuff that would be much more useful than a plasma cutter.

TBH, you have an oxy torch so any thicker metal cutting you need to do on rare occasions can be easily done by flame cutting rather than plasma.

John

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As luck would have it, the only thing even vaguely interesting while vegging out in front of the TV tonight is "Richard Hammond's Big", about the VW factory.

Apparently the paint shop puts a positive charge on the car bodies and a negative charge on the paint robots / guns. This reduces overspray (attraction) and helps the paint layer to even out (repulsion).

I don't know if it will be any use in the TARDIS, but it seemed to be worth mentioning.

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I used the plasma cutter for some motorcycle related work as recently as 4 years ago. I made engine plates to mount that Comet engine into the Honda GL500I frame. I may have also used it to cut out the inner primary cover, but don’t remember for sure. The M/C tool/equipment cost benefit ratio puts it squarely in last place, but the fact remains that I have one and you don’t.
Your attempt to apply logic to a tool purchase in a British motorcycle forum (of all things) will not dampen my spirits and the Comet/Honda should make it crystal clear that trying to do so is totally fruitless.

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Originally Posted by Cyborg
the fact remains that I have one and you don’t.
Damn, Cyborg saw straight through my attempt to justify not having a plasma cutter. This is a major setback in the Tool Wars®.

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Still stinging from the plasma cutter humiliation, and further upset having learned delivery of the additional items for the compressed air line has been delayed until tomorrow, I've been trying to put my suffering out of mind today by straightening up a garage that has gotten somewhat out of control over the past few months.

I don't have the actual paint yet (subject of a future post), but now have most of the necessary painting supplies gathered into one surprisingly-large pile in the garage. It's interesting that a quart of paint will occupy a tiny volume compared with all the rags, solvents, degreasers, masks, overalls, filters, etc. that also are required in order to, um, paint.

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Hi MM,
I really believe you are over thinking this painting lark
Have a look at this guy on You Tube and watch him inhale all those bits you are trying to filter out ???


LOL laughing

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Originally Posted by chaterlea25
I really believe you are over thinking this painting lark
I didn't reach this point in life by under thinking what I do, and I'm afraid it's too late to change that approach now.

Besides, I've already spent a lot of time watching youtube videos telling me what to do, however often observing from those videos what not to do (e.g. painters wearing lint-shedding cotton clothes; using OHSA-forbidden organic respirators with isocyanate paints without any face, eye, or exposed skin protection; having a beard and wearing an unstated-type of OHSA-forbidden respirator; sanding primer in the paint booth; painting six feet from a blasting cabinet , etc.). So, over prepared, probably, but not over thought.

Paint actually is fairly forgiving, as evidenced by the number of nice-looking rattlecan paint jobs. The rattlecan paint job I did on the Ariel's rear mudguard on the lift in the unfiltered air of the garage looks nice. But, I'm not going for nice with the Vincent, I'm going for perfect.

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Quote
Paint actually is fairly forgiving

I have to agree with this comment and my experience is that good results can be obtained even when the environmental factors are less than favorable.

In the UK its often the case that the ambient temp is less than 10c and humidity over 95% rha, despite these factors I've had good results, usually as a result of warming the shed (aka spray booth) with a heater for an hour or two.

MM faces almost the opposite environment to mine with high temperatures and low humidity, which actually may be more amenable to paint spraying than mine. I imagine that if spraying is done in the late evening or early morning when the temperature may be less than 30c and the humidity is over 30% rha good results can be obtained.

One factor which may help MM is that the heat will help harden the paint quickly, resulting in a faster turnaround between sanding, painting and resanding.


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Going off topic, but not as far as it might seem at first, a general observation of youtube videos in the broad area of automotive-related topics (machining, welding, painting, etc.) is that the best of them start off slowly for one or two years, then post weekly 5–10 minute videos for as long as ten years, but finally run out of things to say (or re-say, since even in their prime some of the material is repetitive). Most don't last a decade, but taking 10 years as an upper limit, and 10 minutes as an average, the total content fills about 80 hours. For comparison, two semesters of a college course is 75 hours. Perhaps more relevant is that, at an average reading speed of 225 words/minute, you will have squandered 8¼ hours of your life reading this far in this thread, and nothing less than 32 hours if you read my entire Ariel rebuild thread.

This raises a question. Given that a picture is worth a thousand words (but, these threads also contain pictures as well as words), and recognizing that a video can be worth some amount more than a picture, is there as much useful content in 32 hours of reading as in watching 80 hours of videos spread out over a decade? Stating this question differently, should someone who wants to convey accurate information to as many people as possible spend their time writing threads like this one, making youtube videos, or writing books? You only get to pick one -- which is the best medium?

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Hi MM and All
I'm not sure my humour was appreciated on my last post If so I will delete it ?

Quote
But, I'm not going for nice with the Vincent, I'm going for perfect.

Ok I understand that MM wants to restore the Vincent to "original" condition
I do not believe the 2022 perfection regarding paint finishes existed back in the 1940's and Fifties when the bikes were built
At least with Vincent's you only need to decide on the shade of black needed unlike the myriad of different shades of the same catalog colour that emerged from Small Heath and the likes

John

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Originally Posted by chaterlea25
I'm not sure my humour was appreciated on my last post If so I will delete it ?
It was, so there's no reason to delete it. It gave me an excuse to pontificate, which I appreciate (although, maybe no one else does...).

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Annotated video.


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Video. But I would say that, wouldn't I..

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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
You only get to pick one
Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
Annotated ...
That's one.
Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
...video.
But that makes two. You're disqualified for violating the contest rules.

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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Stating this question differently, should someone who wants to convey accurate information to as many people as possible spend their time writing threads like this one, making youtube videos, or writing books? You only get to pick one -- which is the best medium?
There probably isn't a single "best" way. Different people have different learning modes, and within that variation, different approaches work better in different circumstances.

I know you regard "feel" as imprecise and inaccurate, but it is quite critical in many medical situations, particularly surgery.

From my self-directed machining and welding apprenticeship, a combination of video and hands-on seems a useful approach to learning, but written + graphical information is more concise and proves more useful above a (variable) threshold. Engineering steam tables or pipe flow tables are a good example. Lots of work to produce, lots of information which can be readily gleaned.

Threads like this are quite interesting because they allow feedback, a small portion of which may even be useful. They have an advantage over face-to-face sessions, because the virtual blackboard duster doesn't hurt as much.

It's not necessarily a trinary choice. Many training courses and series of magazine articles have formed the basis for books.

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Originally Posted by Shane in Oz
It's not necessarily a trinary choice.
I agree with everything you wrote up to this point, but it is a 'trinary' choice when the "content creator" has a limited time to devote to the task. Since you mentioned medical training, think of it as triage. The Dr. wants to do best for all possible patients, but in some situations they have to make a choice of which one of three groups to devote all of their time to, spending no time on the other two groups.

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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
it is a 'trinary' choice when the "content creator" has a limited time to devote to the task.
Then I pick this thread.
It works right now providing information. The other choices would leave me in the dark for an unknown but likely long period of time, plus I'd miss all the useful feedback.

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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
it is a 'trinary' choice when the "content creator" has a limited time to devote to the task.
Think of this thread as a series of lectures to undergrads (oh, alright - pre-schoolers). It still requires considerable effort, but reaches a wider audience more quickly than the textbook will.
If you will, it's the rough draft of the Popular Science version of the book, shared with a focus group for feedback.

Just saying that it doesn't preclude the order of magnitude more work required later to distill it into a book which will be read by 2 orders of magnitude less people. Reading stuff printed in "ink" on dead trees? That's so 20th century.

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