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Jul 10th, 2022
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kevin Offline OP
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hey

im thinking of switching from VP C12 to an oxygenated blend this coming july in maine.

right now i run 135 mph in my class, and i want to each 140 without blowing up.

im very close to the limit on leaded gasoline. the VP C12 is giving me about all i can get from my motor and aero. i need about 4.5 percent more hp to get to 140.

what do i need to change in my tuning to accomodate oxygenated fuel? i have never run it.

im running 30 BTDC on timing, and about 145 or 150 on mains in my 35mm keihins (as if thats any help).

what has to change with oxygenated fuel? im looking up options right now.


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VP offers oxy fuels in leaded, unleaded,various octanes and oxy content. So pick one that suits your engine and in general you will need larger main jets. Pushrod Tom may use oxy fuel,he should know...Some on Speed-Talk may use it...


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kevin Offline OP
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VP master fuels able:

https://vpracingfuels.com/master-fuel-tables/

[***], they have 46 oxygenated fuels of various kinds. clearly its time for a telephone call to their chemist. i have sent a message to them on their website for recommendations, and ill call them tomorrow.


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knuckle head
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As much as people bad mouth E10, tuners can make a bit more power on the ethanol laced fuel than the same octane non ethanol due to the few percent extra oxygen...


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Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
As much as people bad mouth E10, tuners can make a bit more power on the ethanol laced fuel than the same octane non ethanol due to the few percent extra oxygen...

Ethanol is also an octane improver, as is toluene, xylene, iso-octane


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Kevin,

I increased the AMAL Concentric main jets on my A10 six sizes when I switched from 110 leaded AVGas to the U4.4. On the A65 however, I have no idea as we tuned from the beginning with the Oxygenated fuel so I have no comparison.


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Alternatively you could raise the compression ratio and use methanol,
or
keep the same compression ratio and use a methanol / nitromethane mix and start making serious amounts of power


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knuckle head
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Alcohol or nitro puts the bike in fuel class..The oxygenated gasoline is ok for gas class


61 hot rod A10, 89 Honda 650NT .On a bike you can out run the demons
"I don't know what the world may need
But a V8 engine is a good start for me
Think I'll drive to find a place, to be surly"
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kevin Offline OP
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well, the fuel supplier in maine did not have the MR12 or the MR-other that the VP guy recommended in a very faint and disrupted telephone call. the octane on those fuels is low-- 93 and 101.

what he did have is Q16, 9.38 percent oxygenated, octane around 116. a little less volatile than the C12 ive been running. this is still legal in M/PG. so i bought four cans at a breathtaking price.

ive already got six sizes larger in my jet kit available for tuning, and im going to get sudco to send me three more-- im running 155 in my keihin FCRs, and this will give me 195 to lean down from.

no idea what to do with the ignition timing. stock on this motor is 38 BTDC, and im running 30 now.

an interesting discussion

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/ctrp-1212-oxygenated-racing-fuels-new-fuel/

Last edited by kevin; 06/18/22 4:00 pm.

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knuckle head
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I have heard racers experienced using methanol say they run the same timing as straight gasoline...You may have to experiment...
What the hell are you doing with 20 gallons of fuel, you running the Baja 1000 ? lol...
Call my dyno guy at Dynotech in Batavia NY . Maybe he can sneak you on your way to the track. He has impressive fuel knowledge...I can meet you there, it's right off the NY dollar way, aka I 90


61 hot rod A10, 89 Honda 650NT .On a bike you can out run the demons
"I don't know what the world may need
But a V8 engine is a good start for me
Think I'll drive to find a place, to be surly"
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kevin Offline OP
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i bought twenty gallons because its good for several years and if i go up there and dont have enough ill never forgive myself. seriously, i carry 1.35 gallons in the tanks and thats good for three runs. so a can is good for maybe 11 runs. ive run as many as 30 times up there, going faster every time. so thats maybe two or three cans to race, and another to not run out.

its 1183 miles just to get there. if i mess up and dont have fuel, ill be very unhappy. and i have a neighbor who buys my old gas from me at cost to run in his drag car. iive picked up some C12 for him, and maybe he'd be interested in a can or two of Q16.

i would love to get on that guys dyno, but i dont have the stinking time. i have to coordinate four other people just to gt up there. if i can get decent results this time, ill see if i can get up on his dyno next time. this whgole thing is governed by logistics, not by optimum tuning, sadly.


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cant remember .
Why are you running 30° now ?
is this a double plugged head ?

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Originally Posted by Andy Higham
Alternatively you could raise the compression ratio and use methanol,
or
keep the same compression ratio and use a methanol / nitromethane mix and start making serious amounts of power

I have thought about doing this on my TR25 which I've made legal for the fuel class at World of Speed and I have the record at 99.6 mph, but only on gasoline. So I'm running about 12.5 to 1, dual plugs, and a Mikuni TM34 flatslide with a 150 main jet. What changes to jetting should I expect to have to make to run this? https://vpracingfuels.com/product/nitro-50-50/?c=220&

Thanks for any suggestions you might have.

Tom


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kevin Offline OP
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Originally Posted by quinten
cant remember .
Why are you running 30° now ?
is this a double plugged head ?


exactly so. twin plugs.

38 BTDC shows detonation on the piston crowns.

30 BTDC is faster. john healy runs 24.

weve got some testing to do on that.

Last edited by kevin; 06/18/22 11:36 pm.

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