|
Posts: 1,048
Joined: February 2014
|
|
|
7 members (bill50cal, BrokenLeg, Brian Brown, Magnetoman, kurt fischer, AML, Gordon Gray),
22
guests, and
22
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums35
Topics76,535
Posts776,179
Members12,210
| |
Most Online204
Jul 10th, 2022
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,245 Likes: 245
DOPE
|
OP
DOPE
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,245 Likes: 245 |
hey
im thinking of switching from VP C12 to an oxygenated blend this coming july in maine.
right now i run 135 mph in my class, and i want to each 140 without blowing up.
im very close to the limit on leaded gasoline. the VP C12 is giving me about all i can get from my motor and aero. i need about 4.5 percent more hp to get to 140.
what do i need to change in my tuning to accomodate oxygenated fuel? i have never run it.
im running 30 BTDC on timing, and about 145 or 150 on mains in my 35mm keihins (as if thats any help).
what has to change with oxygenated fuel? im looking up options right now.
i'm old enough to remember when patriotism meant not trying to overthrow the government.
|
|
2 members like this:
Transgarp, chainreaction |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 298
knuckle head
|
|
knuckle head
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 298 |
VP offers oxy fuels in leaded, unleaded,various octanes and oxy content. So pick one that suits your engine and in general you will need larger main jets. Pushrod Tom may use oxy fuel,he should know...Some on Speed-Talk may use it...
61 hot rod A10, 89 Honda 650NT .On a bike you can out run the demons
"I don't know what the world may need
But a V8 engine is a good start for me
Think I'll drive to find a place, to be surly"
“
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,245 Likes: 245
DOPE
|
|
OP
DOPE
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,245 Likes: 245 |
VP master fuels able: https://vpracingfuels.com/master-fuel-tables/[***], they have 46 oxygenated fuels of various kinds. clearly its time for a telephone call to their chemist. i have sent a message to them on their website for recommendations, and ill call them tomorrow.
i'm old enough to remember when patriotism meant not trying to overthrow the government.
|
|
1 member likes this:
pushrod tom |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 298
knuckle head
|
|
knuckle head
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 298 |
As much as people bad mouth E10, tuners can make a bit more power on the ethanol laced fuel than the same octane non ethanol due to the few percent extra oxygen...
61 hot rod A10, 89 Honda 650NT .On a bike you can out run the demons
"I don't know what the world may need
But a V8 engine is a good start for me
Think I'll drive to find a place, to be surly"
“
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 8,756 Likes: 266
Britbike forum member
|
|
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 8,756 Likes: 266 |
As much as people bad mouth E10, tuners can make a bit more power on the ethanol laced fuel than the same octane non ethanol due to the few percent extra oxygen... Ethanol is also an octane improver, as is toluene, xylene, iso-octane
Now let’s all have a beer  68’ A65 Lightning “clubman” 71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt) 67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration) 68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 922 Likes: 27
Britbike forum member
|
|
Britbike forum member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 922 Likes: 27 |
Kevin, I increased the AMAL Concentric main jets on my A10 six sizes when I switched from 110 leaded AVGas to the U4.4. On the A65 however, I have no idea as we tuned from the beginning with the Oxygenated fuel so I have no comparison.
1955 BSA Bantam D1 Plunger
1956 BSA A10RR Street and LSR Bike
1961 BSA C15S
1966 BSA Lightning
1966 BSA spitfire
1969 Triumph T100C
1970 Triumph TR6R
1970 Triumph TR6C
1972 BSA Lightning LSR Bike
1974 Triumph T150V
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,911 Likes: 86
Britbike forum member
|
|
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,911 Likes: 86 |
Alternatively you could raise the compression ratio and use methanol,
or
keep the same compression ratio and use a methanol / nitromethane mix and start making serious amounts of power
BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
Greeves 200 "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360
GM500 sprint bike "Deofol"
Rickman Jawa 500 "Llareggub"
'35 & '36 OK Supreme
Kawasaki ZZR1400 "Kuro No Senshi"
Kawasaki Ninja H2 "Fujin"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 298
knuckle head
|
|
knuckle head
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 298 |
Alcohol or nitro puts the bike in fuel class..The oxygenated gasoline is ok for gas class
61 hot rod A10, 89 Honda 650NT .On a bike you can out run the demons
"I don't know what the world may need
But a V8 engine is a good start for me
Think I'll drive to find a place, to be surly"
“
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,245 Likes: 245
DOPE
|
|
OP
DOPE
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,245 Likes: 245 |
well, the fuel supplier in maine did not have the MR12 or the MR-other that the VP guy recommended in a very faint and disrupted telephone call. the octane on those fuels is low-- 93 and 101. what he did have is Q16, 9.38 percent oxygenated, octane around 116. a little less volatile than the C12 ive been running. this is still legal in M/PG. so i bought four cans at a breathtaking price. ive already got six sizes larger in my jet kit available for tuning, and im going to get sudco to send me three more-- im running 155 in my keihin FCRs, and this will give me 195 to lean down from. no idea what to do with the ignition timing. stock on this motor is 38 BTDC, and im running 30 now. an interesting discussion https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/ctrp-1212-oxygenated-racing-fuels-new-fuel/
Last edited by kevin; 06/18/22 4:00 pm.
i'm old enough to remember when patriotism meant not trying to overthrow the government.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 298
knuckle head
|
|
knuckle head
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 298 |
I have heard racers experienced using methanol say they run the same timing as straight gasoline...You may have to experiment...
What the hell are you doing with 20 gallons of fuel, you running the Baja 1000 ? lol...
Call my dyno guy at Dynotech in Batavia NY . Maybe he can sneak you on your way to the track. He has impressive fuel knowledge...I can meet you there, it's right off the NY dollar way, aka I 90
61 hot rod A10, 89 Honda 650NT .On a bike you can out run the demons
"I don't know what the world may need
But a V8 engine is a good start for me
Think I'll drive to find a place, to be surly"
“
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,245 Likes: 245
DOPE
|
|
OP
DOPE
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,245 Likes: 245 |
i bought twenty gallons because its good for several years and if i go up there and dont have enough ill never forgive myself. seriously, i carry 1.35 gallons in the tanks and thats good for three runs. so a can is good for maybe 11 runs. ive run as many as 30 times up there, going faster every time. so thats maybe two or three cans to race, and another to not run out.
its 1183 miles just to get there. if i mess up and dont have fuel, ill be very unhappy. and i have a neighbor who buys my old gas from me at cost to run in his drag car. iive picked up some C12 for him, and maybe he'd be interested in a can or two of Q16.
i would love to get on that guys dyno, but i dont have the stinking time. i have to coordinate four other people just to gt up there. if i can get decent results this time, ill see if i can get up on his dyno next time. this whgole thing is governed by logistics, not by optimum tuning, sadly.
i'm old enough to remember when patriotism meant not trying to overthrow the government.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,830 Likes: 269
Britbike forum member
|
|
Britbike forum member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,830 Likes: 269 |
cant remember .
Why are you running 30° now ?
is this a double plugged head ?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 627 Likes: 104
Britbike forum member
|
|
Britbike forum member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 627 Likes: 104 |
Alternatively you could raise the compression ratio and use methanol,
or
keep the same compression ratio and use a methanol / nitromethane mix and start making serious amounts of power I have thought about doing this on my TR25 which I've made legal for the fuel class at World of Speed and I have the record at 99.6 mph, but only on gasoline. So I'm running about 12.5 to 1, dual plugs, and a Mikuni TM34 flatslide with a 150 main jet. What changes to jetting should I expect to have to make to run this? https://vpracingfuels.com/product/nitro-50-50/?c=220&Thanks for any suggestions you might have. Tom
Life's uncertain - go fast now!
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Steve said that. Anything worth doing well is worth teaching to others. I said that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,245 Likes: 245
DOPE
|
|
OP
DOPE
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,245 Likes: 245 |
cant remember .
Why are you running 30° now ?
is this a double plugged head ? exactly so. twin plugs. 38 BTDC shows detonation on the piston crowns. 30 BTDC is faster. john healy runs 24. weve got some testing to do on that.
Last edited by kevin; 06/18/22 11:36 pm.
i'm old enough to remember when patriotism meant not trying to overthrow the government.
|
|
|
|
|
