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Would anyone be able to help me. I have purchased a 1969-70 8" TLS brake plate with the intention of fitting it to a 1968 BSA B44 shootong star orignially fitted with a full width 8" SLS front brake and hub.

I was under the impression that the TLS brake plate could just be fitted to the existing hub and work as a drop in replacement for the SLS brake plate. However when i tried fitting it I couldn't get the brake plate to linen up with the stop with the axels in the right place to refit the caps.

When i refitted the SLS brake plate i had no such trouble. So if any one else has done this conversion or knows the issue i'm running into i would be very grateful.

Thanks

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I have photos at home. I’m at work right now.

The brake fits perfectly. BUT you need to use the axle out of the 8 SLS.

Gordon

PS. Be forewarned that some will say that brake is too much for a unit single ( that’s why BSA went with a 7” TLS). I used mine on a sidecar rig that needed the extra braking IMO.

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 04/29/22 12:17 pm.

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Can you really have "too much brake" on a bike?

As long as it doesn't lock up uncontrollably, seems to me that More Is Better when it comes to brakes.....

Lannis


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Originally Posted by Lannis
Can you really have "too much brake" on a bike?

As long as it doesn't lock up uncontrollably, seems to me that More Is Better when it comes to brakes.....

Lannis

I agree…….I was just warning him that others may feel different about it.

BSA went to the trouble to fit a 7” TLS instead of the 8” they already had????

Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 04/29/22 12:42 pm.

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The 8" TLS brake is very heavy. The 7" TLS is lighter with the smaller drum and brake plate and it works very well. I used a 7" TLS wheel for awhile on a 1965 A65 and found it to be an effective brake. On a B44 it would be more than adequate.

Triumph used the 7" TLS on some T100 bikes so that brake was already available in the Corporation parts bin when BSA put in onto the B44SS. On the T100 it did the job quite well.

Gordo


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Well, I'm home and I must have deleted those photo because I can't find them. frown I guess I deleted stuff that I know I had the parts here if I really needed to look at them again. Sorry about that.

The axles LOOK the same but aren't. You will need to use the axle that came with the 8" SLS. It is a straight swap.

I have no clue about the 8" TLS being "too big". I'm using it on my 1967 B44R that I use for a sidecar tug. Changed out the stock front end for a 1968 did the 8" TLS swap and haven't looked back.

The 1967 stock front brake was only a "little" better than dragging your feet..... help....with the sidecar attached.

Good luck........you'll get it.

Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 04/29/22 7:46 pm.

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There's a thread on doing the 8" TLS conversion from years ago on this forum, see This Link, its worth reading.

I've managed to get the 8" SLS full-width brake on my B44SS working really well by doing a few mods:-
- use a Teflon lined brake cable which helps the brake operate smoothly
- use a 7/8th pivot centre handlebar brake lever as opposed to the 1 1/16th type
- I used Triumph 8" fully floating brake shoes as opposed to the BSA originals which I think are the pivot type. Hopefully, someone will chime in on this as I can't remember the exact details.
- I also had the shoes arced to fit the drum exactly

My front brake now works almost as good as a disc and I'm amazed at the difference these mods made, so worth considering if you don't want to do the full TLS conversion.


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1972 Norton Commando
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Originally Posted by gunner
There's a thread on doing the 8" TLS conversion from years ago on this forum, see This Link, its worth reading.

I've managed to get the 8" SLS full-width brake on my B44SS working really well by doing a few mods:-
- use a Teflon lined brake cable which helps the brake operate smoothly
- use a 7/8th pivot centre handlebar brake lever as opposed to the 1 1/16th type
- I used Triumph 8" fully floating brake shoes as opposed to the BSA originals which I think are the pivot type. Hopefully, someone will chime in on this as I can't remember the exact details.
- I also had the shoes arced to fit the drum exactly

My front brake now works almost as good as a disc and I'm amazed at the difference these mods made, so worth considering if you don't want to do the full TLS conversion.

Great write up.......thank you gunner.

ONCE you read through that...........I found this helpful too. Remember what Stuart said about BSA and Triumph front ends. smile

Raber's Tech Tips

Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 04/29/22 7:56 pm.

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There were three different axle lengths but on BSA's they went further and had different fork lowers with offset axle cups to further complicate matters.

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Thanks for the replies all help is appreciated.

I understand that some would think the 8" brake would be too big, and if i had a 69-70 i wouldn't be going to the trouble of fitting the 8", its only as i have the 8" full width hub that I want to go to the 8" TLS, as i know that for me personally an SLS front brake is not going to be sufficent I am heavy and i also own and ride modern bikes so

On that note i tried to refit with the axel and hub from the SLS and i was still having trouble getting the axel to line up in the forks with the brake plate.

Am i wrong in thinking that they are compatible with the TLS?

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You should take some pics or anyone trying to answer is just guessing.

IE one of many potential issues.

Have you checked that the TLS shoes are the same width as the SLS shoes, Triumph early SLS shoes were narrower than the later 67 onwards SLS shoes and so on a Triumph the TLS is only a straight swap on 67 onwards SLS. The wider shoes fitted to a narrow shoe hub will kick out the brakeplate and this will try to force out the fork lowers.

There are others so lets have some pics.

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On Triumph pre-1966 full width brake drums/wheel hubs, the spoke exit the drum itself.
On '66 to '70 650, and '68-72 500cc Triumph front brakes, there is a flange on one side, and the spokes for that side are laced through that flange.
This allowed more space in the drum itself for those wider brake shoes.

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A 1968 B44 Shooting star

[Linked Image from upload.wikimedia.org]

8" SLS with flange on one side so the TLS would slide in on this bike.

I have the same hub on my T120R 1965 (with the 66 onwards flange which is wrong for a 65) and the TLS brakeplate slid straight in and the forks fit. But they are all Triumph parts, not a mix of BSA fork lowers and Triumph hub.

Last edited by kommando; 05/03/22 6:54 pm.
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I Will try and take some pictures tonight when i will hopefully get another chance to work on it, But i can confirm that it has the flanged hub as fitted as standard to 68 SS's as shown in Kommando's picture, I believe (altough there is no way of knowing on a 54 year old bike that i have owned for less than a year) that it is the original front wheel.

Gordon did that require any modifications or changes to the forks or hub to get that to fit? or did it slot right into the original BSA fork lowers with the BSA hub and axel?

Again all help is geatly appreciated

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SamAdams…..only thing I had to do was remove the axle that came with the brake and replace it with the axle that fit the forks.

Then the brake dropped right in.

I seem to remember “at rest” the brake cam would rotate just enough that I had to make sure it wasn’t trying to spread the shoes out? (when trying to drop the plate/shoes into the hub)

But there were no mods or changes in the fork lowers or the backing plate.

Other than swapping the axle, it was a straight swap in my case.

Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 05/04/22 12:36 pm.

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Gordon has used the Triumph pattern BSA fork lowers from 69/70, this may have made its easier or had no effect. The whole 68 through to 70 front end is a mess especially on BSA's and there are variations from year to year with parts looking the the same but with subtle variations, such as the 70 fork lower on the right having an extended brake nub to rectify the 69 nub not having a deep enough engagement with the slot in the brake plate. Fit a 70 fork lower to an earlier bike and that extended nub becomes an issue on some bikes.

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I might be completely wrong about all of this. It’s been awhile since I did this research and the swap out.

kommando is right, that’s a 69 front end. Not sure about the axle now. The ONLY thing I’m pretty sure about is that the wheel and hub are 68.

My apologies for any confusion……my confusion has caused.

Gordon


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Okay while we're waiting on photos of the ACTUAL front brake swap this thread is about.

Here's where my TLS swap got it's wings......12-27-2010

kommando wrote (a reply to me) ....."That sidecar is adding a lot of weight so 8" TLS is the way to go IMHO. The capped ends will work as long as the bracket engages the notch on the brake plate, this may restrict you to 69/70 capped fork ends as they have the longest reaching brackets. So you will have a choice of rod 2 way damping or shuttle valve, the yokes set the distance apart which must match the 2 grooves on the axle but you can add new grooves if required."

Well it didn't happen in 2011.......but I finally got around to it. It was a long road (pun intended)

I have several VS type (QD) front ends but only a couple of road types. The capped 67's I have are easy to ID.....at one time I did know how to tell the difference between the lowers from a 68 and the 69/70. But apparently I lost that and completely forgot the details of my swap.

I don't have a 1968 SS front end and haven't had one in my hands. So I was out of line answering the OP because what he's asking isn't the same thing I ended up doing.

The wheel and hub ( at least the rim's parts number was correct for the 68) were off a 1968 B44SS. I don't remember exactly what axle I used.....my guess is, it was the correct one for the 69. I do remember having a heck of a time identifying everything. I have no clue what the TLS plate was off of, I got it from a different source.

I didn't have to modify anything and once I had all the correct pieces, it fell into place.

[Linked Image]

So this is a 1969 B44SS Front End, a 1968 B44SS 8" Full Width Hub/Rim with an 8" TLS ( probably off a twin) ........all mounted to a 1967 B44R. Now think about what kinda grief that's gona cause if it passes on to someone who doesn't know all that. laughing

The dreaded......DPO.......Gordon

PS......if one of you ends up over at my place digging around for this stuff after I'm gone......all the original pieces were labeled and boxed together.....just keep looking!!!!

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 05/04/22 10:53 pm.

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So after getting another chance to work on the bike yesterday I got to the bottom of the issue.

The problem i was having was the rear mudguard stay was fouling on the second pivot causing the wheel to be forced in crooked and not properly line up with the forks.

Looking now I can see how the 69 mudguard stay is different as to clear the pivot.

Thanks all for your help, and apologies if I have wasted you time, I. Fairly new to British bikes and my father hasn't worked on a BSA/triumph front end for 30 years.

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You can bend the current rear stay to match the 69 stay, as the 8" rear pivot is more in the way than the 7" rear pivot even a 69 stay needs tweaking. Don't go too far as you want mudguard to tyre clearance.

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SamAdams……NO SIR……you haven’t wasted anyones time here at all.

This is the kind of stuff that will help someone else sooner or later.

Sorry I confused things a little. You did need the original axle (spindle) so I don’t feel too bad about giving you that info.

I can take closer photos of the stay/pivot condition on mine if it would help?

Sounds like you’re getting there….good on ya.

Having your dad around is priceless……cherish that.

Gordon

PS……crap now I have to try and figure out where/what that fender w/stays came off of. I’m “pretty” sure I didn’t get them with the front end. I’m not saying until I get home and double check. I think I just pulled something off the shelf and got lucky. I’m pretty sure I didn’t have to bend anything to make it work but I did have several sets of stays to choose from.

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 05/05/22 12:11 pm.

Gordon Gray in NC, USA........my son says.... "Everybody is stupid about something"

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