Britbike forum Forums Buy & sell - private adverts only! Hot links forum 67 Bonneville

Final day of auction: current bid $3788
I have no vested interest, just came across it
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1967-truimph-t120r-bonneville/?blrb=1

Seller has been getting a lot of flack for the engine numbers. I’m no expert but they do look “funny”

It's almost so bad it has to be real.
I mean, if you were going to forge a da Vinci would you put a moustache on it?

Yes, very funny. The stamping, but more so the grinding marks. Even so, lately I don’t care about numbers much. The bike is a mix, better late fork for one. I always liked that 1st paint combo, wish it had been a sunny day for the tank shot. If the price holds, still would be a good rider!

Here is a list of states that have rules about possession of items with missing or altered serial numbers. This would include motorcycles.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/769537.html

At this point in the auction both the seller, and any buyer, should have good reason to suspect that the motorcycle's serial numbers have been altered. Now one would have to convince any interested authority that the sale, or purchase, was made in good faith, and that they were not aware of the problem.

one Very sloppy forgery .

but seller says ,
has clean Ohio Title in seller's name

weight that against the fact that It could be confiscated at any time
by the dmv of a cop in a bad mood , which mostly doesn't happen .

as a buyer i would pass ...

Bringing a motorcycle from out of state into CA triggers an automatic VIN inspection by CHP officers trained to identify this stuff, no matter the title status. It’s on the owner to prove why the numbers were altered… good luck with that.

Chris

And while everybody ruminates about the numbers the buyer will be riding through the beautiful hills of southern Ohio
I was just down there. Good heavens what beautiful roads compared the flatlands up here

For what it's worth...it looks to me like it COULD have been the second "4" stamp was accidentally held 90 degrees to the right and then stamped over. I've seen a few others with odd looking original stampings. No proof of anything

Sold for $6100.00

Some of the numbers and letters appear to be original, but yes, I too call BS on this one.

The "restorer" couldn't even straighten the headlight lens? Tail lite lens is a repro, "Stickers" instead of decals (what few stickers that are actually there.)
"Restorer" placed "minimum oil level" near the TOP of the oil tank, too many other screw-ups to waste time listing here.

The seller saw a victim coming.

I don't know if I would carry it that far. Judging by the video of him starting the bike and his comments, I would more likely chalk him up as a novice that is selling this bike as he has other interests and his short love affair with a Triumph motorcycle was just that, and now he is done with it. Just surmising of course but my take on it.

yes. ohio is not in johns list.

Having worked with Jerry Wood when he was doing the auction at AMA's Mid-Ohio vintage Days, Ohio DMV can be an awkward state to work work with. One should not assume anything.

Florida DMV is also hard to work with. It will surprise you what they know about the validity of vintage motor numbers. In Florida they would visually inspect both the title, and the numbers on the bike. If suspect they would pull both and take them into custody. There was a DMV rep in the building inspecting each bike, and title, as it came in before it could be sold.

I can speak from experience, "But I have a valid title" means little to either state when it comes to altered numbers.

Boston, MA is another story! Bike, and auto theft was rampant in the 1970's and early 80's. Bostonian bikers were not surprised when the Superintendent of Vehical Theft for the Boston police was indited for running the major auto/bike theft ring in the state.

no free ride in Ohio .
Every state has its own version of this law
Usually under the quaint heading of ( Motor Vehicle Crimes )

enforcement is probably sketchy , until caught .
And then the burden of lawful ownership
goes through a burdensome process of potential confiscation
until Court procedure free's the bike
( not my idea of a fun new hobby )

Bigamy is also crime , but also sees sketchy enforcement .
I suppose because
Any man foolish enough to have two wives will already be paying a price

anyway , if you're thinking of setting up a "Chop Shop" in Ohio
Make sure your lawyer is familiar with :

2011 Ohio Revised Code
Title [45] XLV MOTOR VEHICLES - AERONAUTICS - WATERCRAFT
Chapter 4549: MOTOR VEHICLE CRIMES
4549.62 Offenses with purpose to conceal or destroy identity.

Universal Citation: OH Rev Code § 4549.62

(A) No person, with purpose to conceal or destroy the identity of a vehicle or vehicle part, shall remove, deface, cover, alter, or destroy any vehicle identification number or derivative of a vehicle identification number on a vehicle or vehicle part...



.

ohio can indeed be picky.

where i live in ohio, there is a localnazi in the BMV who will have an issue if she thinks that the price you have listed on a title transaction is less than she thinks it should be.

i bought a 1965 triumph frame with a box of parts that still had a 1971 title. when i went to transfer the machine to me, she was inquisitive about its condition for the asking price of $500. i told her it was in poor condition, and we moved on.

but as is always thecase, the local government employees have a lot of discretion in these areas, and can be persuaded one way or another by your sincerity and attitude.

my no-titled BSA 441 testicle crusher has a vermont title and tag, which suits me just fine for the moment.

Here is a 1967 T120R number to compare with what I would say has been very crudely altered.

Note The Flash at the casting parting line. Removing this flash was never removed as a part of the assembly process. It isn't a defining clue, but it catches your eye when you casually glance at the motor. Now someone could have smoothed it over when cleaning up a set of cases during a rebuild. But it is a confounded nuisance to someone removing old numbers and is usually removed as they remove the old numbers. Also notice the all over, even casting pattern left by the sand casting.

Sorry Deadstiff we seem to agree at the same time.

I certainly hope the buyer contacted the VMCC or TOMCC prior to the final bid. As many here know, for $40 USD you can obtain factory dispatch information and a Dating Certificate for a vintage Triumph. While it won’t tell you if those cases were restamped, at least you could have some level of comfort that the numbers matched the model that is being claimed and provide some backup of authenticity.

Poor job of restamping. If you look at Wildbill's post, you can see that the T120 is one stamp....not so on the bike in question.


Bill B...