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Your mention of a clean room brings back an amusing memory to me.
In my first job as a development engineer at the AE Central R&D Center (AE as in Associated Engineering as in Hepolite pistons, Wellworthy piston rings, Glacier metal bearings, Coventry Radiator etc etc ) one of the projects involved a very early electronic fuel injection system.
It was decided to assemble the pcbs in a clean room.
So at a lot of expense a big clean room was built with positive pressure, air lock doors , expensive air filtration and air handling devices etc etc.
So the room was completed and assembly started.
But the results were poor with dust on the pcbs etc.
Checks were carried out on all the systems and everything was good.
But still the problem persisted--causing a lot of head scratching.
It was only solved when one of the guys left something important in the clean room at the end of the work day and returned in the evening to retrieve it.
He found all the doors of the clean room open and there were three women cleaners with vacuum cleaners "cleaning" the room with cigarettes alight!
It seems no one had thought to tell the cleaning ladies not to clean the clean room!

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Originally Posted by Tridentman
the dodge was to mix the creosote 60/50 with used engine oil and paint the shed with that.
Lasted well for years and years!
HTH
That was our go-to brew for keeping the white ants at bay when putting in Coolabah strainer posts for fences and Ironbark posts for sheds.

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Quote
The accepted method of weatherproofing the wood was to coat it (paint it) with creosote

Thanks, I was thinking of using Creosote but it seems that the original formulation is no longer available due to toxicity concerns, there is a modern Creosote available but I'm not sure it works as well.

I used a deep penetrating spirit-based preservative that protects against wet rot, boring insects, etc., and is water repellant. I sprayed the preserver on using a really cheap hvlp electric spray gun from Screwfix which made the job really easy and quick.


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Originally Posted by gunner
I was thinking of using Creosote but it seems that the original formulation is no longer available due to toxicity concerns
Creosote is available (assuming you are talking about the UK) if you know where to go. The big box stores dont sell it but agricultural suppliers do. I purchased 5 gallons of creosote only a few weeks ago.

John

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Another clean room story. At the time of 'the Art of the Motorcycle' at the Guggenheim a magazine did a story for which they needed a photograph of me. The photographer wanted something that showed my Jekyll and Hyde life as a respected scientist and as a, um, motorcyclist. Making a long story short, one evening I wheeled my Gold Star into the clean room, set it up next to a $2M molecular beam epitaxy machine, crouched on it wearing my Harris tweed jacket with tie over my shoulder as if blown by the wind, and with the art director behind me wearing full clean room garb posed as if she was working on the MBE machine.

In the middle of this a Japanese visiting scientist came into the room wearing the appropriate clean room garb, got his notebook, and left. The next day he said nothing until I asked him. Apparently, the scene was so incongruous, not unlike finding space aliens in the lab, that he thought the best way for him to deal with it was to pretend it hadn't happened.

Wayward bugs and bikes notwithstanding, discussion of clean rooms is actually relevant for this thread. The laminar flow clean room in my lab was designed to my specification for layout and cleanliness, and working with the company at the time of its design and installation, and in using it for the next several decades, gave me a pretty good understanding of the important principles of flowing dust-free air through a room. I'm designing my spray booth with all of this in mind. And, despite what I said about not keeping track of the costs, I have a list of everything I've bought so far along with the prices. I'm just not keeping a running total so I can keep pretending it's reasonable until I finish and add it up.

The latest tracking shows the shed has shipped, with an estimated delivery date of Friday. Unfortunately, Tracking also shows the shed that was supposedly cancelled is still on its way, for delivery on Thursday. Sigh...

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Someone up above obviously thinks that you need two coats of paint-----

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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
........Unfortunately, Tracking also shows the shed that was supposedly cancelled is still on its way, for delivery on Thursday. Sigh...
You could refuse the shipment ie not let the driver unload. That should be easier than doing a return.

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Offset the unknown costs by turning the spare into an admission based serpentarium.


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Originally Posted by Stuart Kirk
You could refuse the shipment ie not let the driver unload.
That assumes I'll be home when the driver arrives. Also, with the two deliveries only a day apart, and delivery dates often moving one way or another by a day, there's the real possibility I could accidentally refuse shipment on the wrong shed. I'm afraid I'll just have to see how this plays out and then deal with the aftermath.

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Assuming there is space available, perhaps both sheds could be assembled back to back, one could serve as a spray booth whilst the other could serve as a drying area or be used for preparing parts.

Usually, big outfits like Lowes/HF etc. have a returns department, so just a case of getting a returns label, often they pay for the shipping (in the UK).

If that isn't possible put the spare one on eBay/Craigslist etc. or sell it to a friend, these types of sheds are in high demand so I don't think you would have any trouble selling it.


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Hi MM,
A man cannot have enough sheds

John

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Originally Posted by chaterlea25
A man cannot have enough sheds
I would agree. However, my wife would disagree, which is all that matters.

Originally Posted by gunner
Assuming there is space available,
There isn't, or there would be serious risk of filling the second one with three bikes I don't yet own.

Originally Posted by gunner
just a case of getting a returns label, ...
put the spare one on eBay/Craigslist etc.
It took 40 minutes on the phone to get the order (allegedly) cancelled, so "just" getting a return label almost certainly would be a lengthy hassle, along with convincing them they had to arrange to have it picked up from me rather than me load the ~150-lbs and take it to them. Selling it on Craigslist would be another hassle, and I do everything I can to minimize unnecessary hassles. I still hold out hope the cancellation notice will catch up with the delivery instructions between now and when delivery is supposed to take place.

Another trip to the store now has all the items, with the exception of the plywood for the floor and the air ducting. It rained today, sometimes quite hard, with further rain possible through the evening, and I didn't want the plywood soaked. I've already hauled the concrete pavers to the back so I'll get them in place and leveled tomorrow, then get the plywood. I should have the plywood painted and the vinyl flooring glued in place on it prior to the shed arriving, which will allow me to immediately start assembling it.

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Michael Caine, The Italian Job (1969): "You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!"

Madame Mman (2022): "You were only supposed to buy one bloody shed!"

Last edited by NYBSAGUY; 03/30/22 1:20 am.
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those pavers
will bed more much level and more quickly
set on a graded sand base ( over a tamped gravel base )
[Linked Image from landscape-design-advice.com]
You can "cheap out" on the edge restraint and backfill with tamped gravel to retain the sand/paver grade .

Last edited by quinten; 03/30/22 1:45 am.
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Not admission based, pay to get out!

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And on top of the "bedding" sand sprinkle cement then after bedded down sprinkle water on the pavers ---this gives a really solid base.
HTH

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FedEx's Cancellation Dept. finally caught up with their Delivery Dept., and at 10 pm last night I got the following notice about the cancelled Lowes shed.

[Linked Image]

However, keeping life interesting, at 2 am this morning I got a notice from Home Depot apologizing that its shed will be delayed from its original delivery on Friday, and instead is now scheduled for delivery on Thursday.

[Linked Image]

Based on the above, I won't be surprised if 0, 1, or 2 sheds are delivered sometime between tomorrow and the end of April...

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As the first photograph shows, I have the paving stones in place.

[Linked Image]

It's remarkably time-consuming to get every stone level, then all the rows level, and all the columns level, with the array parallel to the garage wall and both the length and width correct. Doing this reminded me why I chose a profession that didn't require physical labor. Although it seemed like I had succeeded with the foundation, I'll double-check tomorrow.

Also, thanks for the advice on creating a firm foundation. However, you will see from the photograph that I ignored it. The reason is, you people are used to the ground being made of dirt, which is compressible, but here in the desert our 'soil' is rock-hard caliche. Subsidence isn't an issue.

I didn't think of it at the time so there will be one more trip to pick up 1 cu.ft. of gravel, which will be enough to fill all the spaces between the stones. Otherwise, the basement of the spray booth would be the perfect rattlesnake den.

With the foundation in place, and rain out of the forecast, I bought the plywood for the floor along with primer to protect one side of it, even though that side would be against the 7 mil tarp. As an aside, plywood seemed a lot more expensive than the last time I bought it, before the apocalypse, but I don't have prices memorized so I could be wrong.

The plywood is 50 sq.ft. and the instructions on the 1 qt. can of primer said it covers 100 sq.ft., so I gambled that it would be sufficient. It was, but with only a tiny amount left over. I used my white flatbed trailer for the painting since any drips would help protect the trailer, painted the edges and one side with a roller, and then filled in the knots and cracks with a brush.

[Linked Image]

The paint will be dry by tomorrow when, after making sure the paving stones haven't moved, I'll lay the tarp and two pieces of plywood on the stones, coat the top with glue, and attach a seamless roll of vinyl flooring to it. Luckily, the cheapest vinyl was also the closest to white, so the pattern I bought is the following.

[Linked Image]

Basically, I'll rely on the vinyl to hold the two plywood pieces together until the shed is placed on it and screwed to the floor.

I also picked up most of what I'll need for the air flow/filtration system, so at this point nearly everything needed for my paint booth is in hand or in transit. If the shed actually is delivered tomorrow, or even on Friday, by the time I get it assembled the other in-transit items should be here so, as always, the roadblock to making progress will be me.

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20 stones.
+20 is the code for international direct dial phone calls to Egypt.
Things that make you go Hmm.


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Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
20 stones.
+20 is the code for international direct dial phone calls to Egypt.
Things that make you go Hmm.
Cat Stevens was deeply into numerology before he converted to Islam, Egypt is an Islamic country, and you ended your post with a Hmm, so I see a Humam al-Jörgan in Britbike's future.

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Great progress MM. Looking foreward to seeing how this works out (assuming the shed gets delivered)

Originally Posted by Magnetoman
As an aside, plywood seemed a lot more expensive than the last time I bought it, before the apocalypse, but I don't have prices memorized so I could be wrong.
I am pretty sure you are not wrong (although I am not as close to prices in the US as I am in Europe.)

Building materials have rocketed in price over the last year and a half. Timber (here at least) were impacted because all of the Scandinavian timber mills were shut and employees furloughed due to COVID and because of the seasonal nature of the harvest of timber it takes a year or two for things to get back to where they were. Furthermore, timber has been impacted more recently by tit for tat measures by Russia who have reduced or stopped timber exports to "unfriendly" countries. There are other reasons in the UK for other rises too such as a tax change on fuel which comes into force on April 1st which in the UK will add approx 10% to certain materials also, although that obviously isnt a consideration in the USA.

John

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HI MM
The guys who installed my shed "warned " me to not put vinyl flooring on the plywood as it would cause rot ?

I was going to lash on some old floor paint that has been sitting here for probably far too long but in a similar way to you
It was dictated that the floor would be varnished, "Diamond hard" floor varnish cost €55 for 2.5 lit. mad
and I had to buy a second tin to do the finish coat !!

John

Last edited by chaterlea25; 03/31/22 10:05 pm.
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Quote
It's remarkably time-consuming to get every stone level, then all the rows level, and all the columns level, with the array parallel to the garage wall and both the length and width correct. Doing this reminded me why I chose a profession that didn't require physical labor. Although it seemed like I had succeeded with the foundation, I'll double-check tomorrow.


does nt matter at this point , you got it done .
but there are good reasons why professionals use a layer of sand on top
Sands smaller Grit makes leveling easier ( granular flow )
and the smaller Grit makes it 80~90% pre compacted .
... it has some ( non-Newtonian properties ). pavers with hi spots can be pounded level
( when the pounding dissipates , shear-flow stops and the sand particles Jam and act like a solid )
and ... low spots can be quickly filled with a handful , or scoop of sand .
( with less air between grains its easier to gauge amount to fill or remove )

Of course
all this can be accomplished with a larger grit like gravel
, but it take more time and force to "flow-set" gravel .
( Railroad ties are flow set in gravel , but it takes a crew )

when the second shed shows up and needs a base
Try a shovelfull of sand under each of the paver Piers .

iyou could ring the plywood perimeter with some 1x3 or 1x6 L flashing . ( available from your local Big Box )
with the long side vertically into a gravel Trench ( to later be back filled )
it would protect the ply end grain and prevent digger-things and pack rats
from undermining your work .

You can beef up the connection between sheets of ply with some 12" 1x4 cleats
Screwed to the bottom of the first sheet (so as to fit between paver piers when laid down )
...,with half or 6" of cleat sticking out
When the second ply sheet is a laid down it can be decking-screwed to tounges

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Originally Posted by chaterlea25
The guys who installed my shed "warned " me to not put vinyl flooring on the plywood as it would cause rot ?
Maybe it would rot on the Emerald Isle, but I'm betting it won't in the Sonoran Desert. Here, the humidity is low and it never will be in contact with actual water, which are two things you can't say about anything in Cork.

With luck, the in-transit items will show up soon. At that point I'll have everything in hand for the shed, floor, foundation, and air systems (filtered, compressed, and supplied-air). Other than the minor detail of assembling the shed, all that remains to be purchased are the lighting and weatherstripping/sealing for the doors, both of which have to wait until the shed is assembled. So, I did the unthinkable and totaled the cost-to-date to my children's inheritance. I'll wait to reveal the final total until it's 100% finished, but it's less than I thought it would be. It's still a lot, but it's less than I thought.

Not that anything actually justifies the money I squandered on this spray booth, but I have a note from 30 years ago about a beautiful paint job I had seen at a local bike show. My note says the owner told me he applied R-M 2-pack epoxy paint outdoors on calm days. Painting the Vincent that way had long been in the back of my mind, but over the past month that I've been deeply immersed in paint I've noticed that there never has been a completely calm day. At best, there were a few days when there was no noticeable breeze for a couple of hours. Whether that's because spring is a breezy season, or because we live on the top of a hill, a few hours of calm on infrequent random days isn't sufficient for painting a motorcycle.

First thing this this morning I made another trip to the store to pick up the 1 cu. ft. of pebble needed to keep rattlesnakes from frolicking in the basement. I then re-checked the paving stones to make sure each one was individually stable, and that the rows and columns were level. With that done I placed the plywood on the stones and tested the floor for strength by walking around on it.

[Linked Image]

I had planned on using ⅜" plywood for the floor, but none was on the shelves at the store so I bought the more expensive ½" instead (15/32" to be precise). I believe ⅜" would have been fine, and it would have saved ~$30 had it been available. After the floor had passed the strength test, I removed the plywood and added the stones to block the corridors leading to the basement.

[Linked Image]

I then replaced the plywood and unrolled the vinyl flooring.

[Linked Image]

The vinyl I bought is sold in 12 ft. widths so, after allowing a ~1 inch overlap at either end to accommodate possible errors I might make, cutting it to size left me with a ~4 ft.×6 ft. piece of 40 mil vinyl that will go in my trailer where it will serve as even better ground cover than a tarp for any work that needs to be done outside the trailer.

At that point I realized I had forgotten about the tarp under the floor, so I rolled up the vinyl, removed the plywood, and put the tarp in place.

[Linked Image]

The paving stones are tall enough that water shouldn't ever touch the floor, but wood that close to the ground is red meat for termites so they have to get through or around the tarp in order to feast. I then replaced the plywood, laid out the vinyl, allowing for overlap on all four edges, and carefully rolled it up until ~ 1 ft. from the end.

[Linked Image]

I then pulled the remaining ~1 ft. over the top of the roll and covered that area of the plywood with vinyl cement using a trowel with serrations on the edge of width and depth specified on the container of cement. I then placed the vinyl over that area of cement, pressed down with hand pressure, and continued applying cement, and unrolling the vinyl, until I was finished ~25 minutes later.

[Linked Image]

The working time of the cement is 50 minutes so I then walked back and forth across every square inch of the vinyl to press it into place. The instructions call for keeping traffic off it for 24 hours.

Two hours after I finished cementing the vinyl, UPS delivered the shed in the form of two boxes. I took them to the back of the garage and dropped them on the vinyl, but didn't drag them from where they fell to avoid possibly upsetting the cement bond.

[Linked Image]

I opened the boxes for a preview of what awaits me, but decided to quit after doing that since it felt like I had done enough physical labor for the day. Also, there was the valid excuse that I didn't want to do anything that might cause the cement to get upset.

Tomorrow I'll trim the excess vinyl and ground cloth from around the edges and begin assembling the shed. I'll need to anchor the shed to the ground, but will wait until it's assembled and attached to the floor before considering my options for doing that. Once I've caulked everything needed to make it pitch black inside, it will be the most dust-free paint booth in the neighborhood.

p.s.
Originally Posted by quinten
you could ring the plywood perimeter with some 1x3 or 1x6 L flashing .
Excellent idea. I'll do it. Thanks.

Last edited by Magnetoman; 03/31/22 11:04 pm. Reason: p.s.
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I'm sorry doc but my bet is you're not going to be happy with that set up later down the line. Only time will tell and I hope the best for you with it.

Gordon


Gordon Gray in NC, USA........my son says.... "Everybody is stupid about something"
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