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DOPE
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is that oxygenated stuff considered G or F? i dont have the rules and cant remember.


i'm old enough to remember when patriotism meant not trying to overthrow the government.
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Originally Posted by kevin
is that oxygenated stuff considered G or F? i dont have the rules and cant remember.
Kevin, . I know when we raced at Wilmington, the checks on classification were more on the honor system but I always purchased my race gas from the vendor onsite so there was never an issue. I have sent a request into Frank John with the LTA for confirmation if fuel needs to be purchased from an onsite vendor or I can bring my own. Per the LTA rules, oxygenated fuel is considered gas class so.....

ECTA
2.B FUELS:
In fuel classes, any approved liquid fuel may be used. Examples of approved fuels are:
nitrous oxide, nitromethane, alcohol, and hydrogen, unapproved gasoline (to include E-85)
and hydrogen.
In gasoline classes, you must run fuel supplied by our fuel vendor and have your tank sealed.

LTA
1.B.3 Gas vs Fuel Class:
Gas class consists of:
1) Gas for racing purposes. Generally from a source such as VP.
2) Oxygenated Fuel
3) LP Gas
4) Diesel Fuel
5) Standard pump gas available at any filling station.
Fuel class consists most everything else:
Allowed:
1) Nitro- Methane, Ethanol, Nitrous Oxide.
2) Any Gas listed above.


1955 BSA Bantam D1 Plunger
1956 BSA A10RR Street and LSR Bike
1961 BSA C15S
1966 BSA spitfire
1969 Triumph T100C
1970 Triumph TR6R
1970 Triumph TR6C
1972 BSA Lightning LSR Bike
1974 Triumph T150V
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DOPE
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i routinely run VP C-12. im not much interested in blowing up my bike with nitromethane but im thinking about oxygenated fuel.

werent you running some in your A10?

5 percent increase is a lot.


i'm old enough to remember when patriotism meant not trying to overthrow the government.
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Originally Posted by kevin
i routinely run VP C-12. im not much interested in blowing up my bike with nitromethane but im thinking about oxygenated fuel.

werent you running some in your A10?

5 percent increase is a lot.

Yes, ran the VP U4.4 in the A10 as well. it performed well and burned pretty clean too, just wasnt enough to overcome leaving the bike in street trim to compete with those pesky Triumphs.


1955 BSA Bantam D1 Plunger
1956 BSA A10RR Street and LSR Bike
1961 BSA C15S
1966 BSA spitfire
1969 Triumph T100C
1970 Triumph TR6R
1970 Triumph TR6C
1972 BSA Lightning LSR Bike
1974 Triumph T150V
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DOPE
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your A10 is a lot prettier than the turnips tho


i'm old enough to remember when patriotism meant not trying to overthrow the government.
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Finally got the rear disc brake setup completed this weekend by using a newer [email protected]#$%Y Brembo rear master cylinder.

IMG_5933.jpg

1955 BSA Bantam D1 Plunger
1956 BSA A10RR Street and LSR Bike
1961 BSA C15S
1966 BSA spitfire
1969 Triumph T100C
1970 Triumph TR6R
1970 Triumph TR6C
1972 BSA Lightning LSR Bike
1974 Triumph T150V
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knuckle head
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knuckle head
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Originally Posted by kevin
your A10 is a lot prettier than the turnips tho
Maybe prettier but not as racy looking, grin

0E0BC171-5CB7-44D3-B81A-F383B38E4A5F.jpeg

61 hot rod A10, 89 Honda 650NT .On a bike you can out run the demons
"I don't know what the world may need
But a V8 engine is a good start for me
Think I'll drive to find a place, to be surly"
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HB,

I have always like the stance of your machine and always ran great right off the trailer. In my defense though, the goal I had with my A10 was to race it and be as fast as possible in full street trim, there were a few time I forgot to take the TAG off before running. Honestly the bike fits more in the Production Class but due to the Road Rocket not being available in Clubman trim, this pushed me in the Modified class. I built this Cafe' bike back in 2004-5 and made the needed safety corrections in 2010 when I raced at Bonneville. I will say that 118mph on an A10 is pretty darn good and the sound with the megaphones was like nothing else.

A10.jpg

1955 BSA Bantam D1 Plunger
1956 BSA A10RR Street and LSR Bike
1961 BSA C15S
1966 BSA spitfire
1969 Triumph T100C
1970 Triumph TR6R
1970 Triumph TR6C
1972 BSA Lightning LSR Bike
1974 Triumph T150V
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knuckle head
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Yes, your bike was a true street machine…The 118 at Bonneville is quite the speed for that bike….My rider is bugging me to drag the Triumph to El Mirage in early August..The damn thing hasn’t been started in three years and is collecting dust and rust in my shop..Needs a ring job at least …We would fly there and somehow get the bike there…Sounds like a logistical nightmare….
I have an A10 built from mismatched parts but not a racer…

AEA474A0-1667-4D0E-90B8-0F2AC8CE2233.jpeg

61 hot rod A10, 89 Honda 650NT .On a bike you can out run the demons
"I don't know what the world may need
But a V8 engine is a good start for me
Think I'll drive to find a place, to be surly"
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HB, The 118mph was actually at Ohio, I ran 120.xxxmph at Bonneville which was a totally awesome experience and should definitely be something on the bucket list. El Mirage would be great too, with all the dust being sucked in though I doubt you would need a ring job. Logistics would be a bit difficult but I think it could be managed. Maybe have the bike crated and shipped (with some basic tools/ parts included) to a Local LSR speed freak (like Alp or someone similar) to where it can be loaded in the back of a rental pickup?

Your A10 looks good, hows it handle with the more modern forks and rear springs?


1955 BSA Bantam D1 Plunger
1956 BSA A10RR Street and LSR Bike
1961 BSA C15S
1966 BSA spitfire
1969 Triumph T100C
1970 Triumph TR6R
1970 Triumph TR6C
1972 BSA Lightning LSR Bike
1974 Triumph T150V
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DOPE
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chris, what tuning did you choose for bonnevile? i seem to recall you didnt change things much.

wilmington in ohio is 1017 feet, and bonneville is 5100 feet, but at this moment the barometric pressures are the same-- 756mm and 754mm of mercury, respectively. temperature is 35 F at wilmington and 64 F at bonneville.

tuning at bonneville isnt something you can test- you have to show up, guess what you need, run, and then its over.


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Kevin,

I would have to dig up my notes but from memory, It was a PITA as the air density changes throughout the day so it was more of like a guess on jetting size at the time of the run. I was only running a stock single carb head as well and remember fighting fuel starvation the entire time. Things are serious at Bville when it comes to fuel and the official's "seal" the gas cap with duct tape and dots of paint overlapping the tape and tank surface. I, of course, dont figure out my fuel problem until I get home but the tank wasnt venting properly and would only allow enough gas to flow to sustain speed for the last mile. Lessoned learn and will hopefully not encounter that issue again if I get the chance to go back.


1955 BSA Bantam D1 Plunger
1956 BSA A10RR Street and LSR Bike
1961 BSA C15S
1966 BSA spitfire
1969 Triumph T100C
1970 Triumph TR6R
1970 Triumph TR6C
1972 BSA Lightning LSR Bike
1974 Triumph T150V
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DOPE
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you did 120 with one carburetter?

i am impressed.


i'm old enough to remember when patriotism meant not trying to overthrow the government.
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knuckle head
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Chris, the front end on the A10 is from a 2000 Honda 600CBR,adjustable dampening and pre load. the rear Shocks are 70’s adjustable dampening Koni’s with 80/120 springs..
Far better ride and handling feel especially on bumpy roads than the original..Stock front end can be improved with modern damper inserts
Car guys say that jetting for changing air density can be over done..All carb have some ability to compensate and some more than others..
The Mikuni TM flatslides on my Turnip seem not to care about moderate density changes.. Same speeds early in the morning at 60F and later in the day at 85F and higher humidity with the same jets…Bonneville has more extreme changes but finding a middle ground for jetting may work out..


61 hot rod A10, 89 Honda 650NT .On a bike you can out run the demons
"I don't know what the world may need
But a V8 engine is a good start for me
Think I'll drive to find a place, to be surly"
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So I finally was able to get back on the Dyno and test the new head. Now I will say the this is a different Dyno than I previously tuned on so numbers are not really comparable but a few ponies were added grin. The power curve looks great and comes on abit sooner than the stock head and stays steady through out the rpm range. The 'ole girl did have some smoke up at the top end which is either puling through the valve guides or rings or maybe both but for sitting idle since Sept. 2016 and not pulling the top end off, I would say shes done well. I did forget to grab my stepped header pipes to try so this will be done as a real life test on the track in July.


1955 BSA Bantam D1 Plunger
1956 BSA A10RR Street and LSR Bike
1961 BSA C15S
1966 BSA spitfire
1969 Triumph T100C
1970 Triumph TR6R
1970 Triumph TR6C
1972 BSA Lightning LSR Bike
1974 Triumph T150V
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From Tom's testing on that Dyno, I think, it doesn't seem over optimistic. Did it pull to higher rpm?

I still think it could benefit from connected pipes. Just because everyone does something, doesn't mean it gets the best results. People still fit pipe wrap to help the rust. Superbikes usually connect, it's quite a pursued science with them.

Those Big bore high pipes and X may kick butt if you fit longish mufflers or megaphones. They did on a short stroke. It may have no reversion with that size carb and high compression. But it should rip and push rpm.

The intake probably needs 12" from valve to intake to get a strong pulse. And those manifolds are short. Maybe you could clamp in 34mm extensions and mount the carbs with hose and clamps. Nick's Weber would be very long by comparison and likely put the intake where calculators recommend. If you know intake lobe centre,(guessing 105deg) duration,(Guessing 310) Inlet closing(guessing 80degree), compression,(Guessing 12-1) etc you could run it through calculators, none of which would recommend that shortish length. Sometimes you can only fit what fits, but that blue missile may have room.

So using guessing, in those things, the long one is 18.78" the rest fall between 11.31 and 13.99". 7 calculators. For max torque at 5000 and power at 7000. The outfit is likely in that range, most things are not. Short means lots of pulse laps and weakening. The long one is probably for one less lap. But behind the bike may not be the best place for carbs. I'd be looking at around 12".

1500hp on pump gas. Hemi. They make the blocks low to fit the crucial intake runner lengths.

https://www.sonnysracingengines.com/images/cms/97c7bfad-0f4f-7394.jpg

Last edited by Mark Parker; 05/03/22 9:01 am.

mark
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knuckle head
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Triumph is not exactly a BSA or a mega displacement car engine.I did a lot of dyno testing with intake lengths and found for an amatuer tuner like me on a limited budget there were too many variables..You change the intake length then you need to adjust the exhaust ,cam timing, fuel mixture and maybe timing to get the best results. Too much time and money for me....


61 hot rod A10, 89 Honda 650NT .On a bike you can out run the demons
"I don't know what the world may need
But a V8 engine is a good start for me
Think I'll drive to find a place, to be surly"
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 909
Likes: 25
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Originally Posted by Mark Parker
From Tom's testing on that Dyno, I think, it doesn't seem over optimistic. Did it pull to higher rpm?

I still think it could benefit from connected pipes. Just because everyone does something, doesn't mean it gets the best results. People still fit pipe wrap to help the rust. Superbikes usually connect, it's quite a pursued science with them.

Those Big bore high pipes and X may kick butt if you fit longish mufflers or megaphones. They did on a short stroke. It may have no reversion with that size carb and high compression. But it should rip and push rpm.

The intake probably needs 12" from valve to intake to get a strong pulse. And those manifolds are short. Maybe you could clamp in 34mm extensions and mount the carbs with hose and clamps. Nick's Weber would be very long by comparison and likely put the intake where calculators recommend. If you know intake lobe centre,(guessing 105deg) duration,(Guessing 310) Inlet closing(guessing 80degree), compression,(Guessing 12-1) etc you could run it through calculators, none of which would recommend that shortish length. Sometimes you can only fit what fits, but that blue missile may have room.

So using guessing, in those things, the long one is 18.78" the rest fall between 11.31 and 13.99". 7 calculators. For max torque at 5000 and power at 7000. The outfit is likely in that range, most things are not. Short means lots of pulse laps and weakening. The long one is probably for one less lap. But behind the bike may not be the best place for carbs. I'd be looking at around 12".

1500hp on pump gas. Hemi. They make the blocks low to fit the crucial intake runner lengths.

https://www.sonnysracingengines.com/images/cms/97c7bfad-0f4f-7394.jpg

Mark,

We pulled to 6500rpm's, same as the previous tuning day. The power seem to come in just a bit sooner than before with leaner carb settings over the stock head. I will be bringing the Xpipes as well as the stepped TT style pipes to test at the track and it wouldnt be too much to try and extend the manifolds some (as long as they can be supported and out of the way of my knees0 as there may be some room to pickup some HP with playing with the intake track length

Im running Mega Cycles 542-X8 cam which is there version/ copy of the Sifton 460 camshaft. Cam Lift: 400", Duration @ .040": 290°, Lobe Center: 103°, Intake Open/ Closed: 42 btc/68 abc, Exhaust Open/ Closed: 68 bbc/42 atc, Running Lash I/E 008".010"

For now, Im going to keep the bike adjusted as is so I have a baseline, then make changes if there is time to and compare in real time if it improved.


1955 BSA Bantam D1 Plunger
1956 BSA A10RR Street and LSR Bike
1961 BSA C15S
1966 BSA spitfire
1969 Triumph T100C
1970 Triumph TR6R
1970 Triumph TR6C
1972 BSA Lightning LSR Bike
1974 Triumph T150V
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Posts: 3,043
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M
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Leaner carb settings is interesting, what the engine sees would be basically the same mixture and maybe the engine is drawing fuel harder through the jets.

The calculators are still around the same lengths. The Blair one 11.94" about. I think they work on timing at .020" so I added a little to your figures.

Definitely best to start with the settings you have.

HB My point with the V8 was how important runner length is to them. That they make blocks low so the long runners can fit under a bonnet. The idea of the calculators is to find length to suit what specs you use. It's just an idea of where things may give an advantage. Exhaust calculations do not have reliable formula's and is a bucket of worms in my opinion, there are basics and what has been used successfully, but experimenting seems the thing.


mark
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