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Two sets from Britain are currently listed on EBAY'S United States site: BEWARE of them.

154885556581 - Triumph 650
Triumph TR6SR 650 DU24178 Crankcases

154881899884 - Triumph 650
1963 Triumph TR6 650 Crank Cases


Both cases have had numbers ground off, area "dappled' with punch or pointed object, and re-stamped with non-authentic stamps.
Study the pictures. See how this was done.

Mere POSSESSION of such items would be considered a crime in most of the United States. Maybe not so in Britain, but certainly so HERE.

These items have been reported to eBay (for what good that may do!)

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Seller says:

Originally Posted by Ebay
The main engine number has been stamped over

And:
Quote
Numbers say tr6 du 27481 is 1963 cases. but don’t look right on the stamp ? So please allow that is been re stamped

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-...46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/triumph-...46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0


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Wow. Somewhat amateur. If you look closely under the DU 24178, you can see where the original numbers have been preened.

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I’m not sure what the report to EBay was for.

“Stolen recovered” stuff is sold legally.

There is a fair argument that such gear should be melted or smashed.

There is also an argument that insurance companies who end up owning stolen recovered stuff can sell it.


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Interesting to note that the same numerals are on the cases, just rearranged: numerals 1,2,4,7,and 8

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Always beware, when you buy a matching engine and frame bike that has had the cases bead blasted.

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I stand by what I wrote.

Even if the cases were recovered by an insurance company, re-sale of them to an honest customer may put that person in the cross-hairs of the
next police officer who takes a close look and decides the bike was stolen.
The buyer/owner may have to go through HELL before he is cleared of any charges.

Better not buy them in the first place. Destroy them instead.

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Originally Posted by Irish Swede
I stand by what I wrote.

Even if the cases were recovered by an insurance company, re-sale of them to an honest customer may put that person in the cross-hairs of the
next police officer who takes a close look and decides the bike was stolen.
The buyer/owner may have to go through HELL before he is cleared of any charges.

Better not buy them in the first place. Destroy them instead.


Swede,

This isn't the '60's,1970's and 80's. I highly doubt your standard LEO is checking old Triumph motorcycles or any other marques' engine and frame numbers at a normal traffic stop unless you are a known or suspected outlaw club member.

If a state uses the frame number for title and registration purposes and they are legit, then nobody of importance cares what the engine numbers look like.

Destroy a good set of cases or any other classic bike part? Let's just say, that I'm glad you aren't in charge of anything that relates to this subject.


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project
1971 BSA A65 650 - Project
1972 Norton Commando 750 "Combat"


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I doubt that possession or use of these cases could be considered a crime... attempting to register them and street use probably could be.

If the seller states they are re-stamped, then the buyer should be aware of the possible consequences of using them in that manner. If he isn't, it is just Darwinism in action.

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Originally Posted by jeb
Always beware, when you buy a matching engine and frame bike that has had the cases bead blasted.


That's a rather broad blanket.


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Quote
Mere POSSESSION of such items would be considered a crime in most of the United States. Maybe not so in Britain, but certainly so HERE.

This is not true. Most misdemeanors and felonies have a statute of limitations of 3-5 years. Possession of motorcycle engine cases with doctored numbers fit into this limit. You might lose the item without compensation if the original person who reported it stolen made a claim but to have or sell them is not a crime.

Scott

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Originally Posted by Irish Swede
Maybe not so in Britain
I dont think the ownership of an engine with a re-stamped or non standard number or no number is an offence here. Its the intention. Trying to pass something off fraudulently for something that it isn't is an offence so is selling stolen goods.

In the UK the registration/title is on the chassis number. I think in the US its on the engine number so that may be a factor in the difference.

A few years ago I bought a stolen and recovered engine to use as a spare for my XR400. It came from a legitimate bike breaker who had all the paperwork showing that it had come via the police who had recovered it and that the insurance company had written it off.

The engine number had been attacked by someone with a chisel to make it illegible and the breaker had trouble selling it so I was able to get it for a knock down price. However I satisfied myself in advance that it was a legitimate transaction.

In the end after several people tried to make out I was some sort of criminal I filed the chiselled area flat and smoothed it with wet and dry so it now looks like an un-stamped engine as it saves having to explain and also looks better. However thats easier on a Honda because the number is on a raised boss.

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Regarding whether a US motorcycle's title/registration is based on the frame (chassis) number or motor number could depend on the state, I believe.
It was the reason that the authorities pushed to have matching frame and motor numbers to simplify things.
But I've seen frames being offered with titles as well as motors, so I suppose it's up to a state's DMV what they consider Kosher.

Also, states have what is called a reconstructed vehicle title that applies where someone has either put together a mishmash of parts to build a custom or repaired a wrecked vehicle.
In that case, the state may assign a special ID number stamped into a metal tag that gets permanently affixed to that vehicle and becomes it's VIN.

Last edited by Little Doobie; 03/16/22 7:23 pm.

They say every dog has his day..
Trouble is, nobody tells the dog which day it is !

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Originally Posted by George Kaplan
I think in the US its on the engine number so that may be a factor in the difference.

Generally speaking, the engine numbers are the numbers used for 1969 and earlier Harley-Davidsons as the frames were not stamped. 1970 and above models go by frame numbers, which was the first year of stamping the frame with the matching numbers of the engine. As well, and as for the other manufacturers, the frame is the preferred part used for numbers verification, title, and registration purposes in most, if not all states currently.


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1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project
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1972 Norton Commando 750 "Combat"


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Originally Posted by Jon W. Whitley
Generally speaking, the engine numbers are the numbers used for 1969 and earlier Harley-Davidsons as the frames were not stamped. 1970 and above models go by frame numbers, which was the first year of stamping the frame with the matching numbers of the engine. As well, and as for the other manufacturers, the frame is the preferred part used for numbers verification, title, and registration purposes in most, if not all states currently.
Thanks for that clarification. I have an old Harley Davidson (dont judge me) and on the various forums I have seen people talking about engines with titles hence my assumption that titles go with engine numbers as I assumed it was the case for all bikes in the US, not just HD's.

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How old is your Harley, John?
Harley's didn't have frame serial numbers until some time in the 1960s.

I have two '47 "74s" and neither ever had frame numbers, they were titled by their engine numbers.

It was controversies in the Antique motorcycle Club of America surrounding fake or re-stamped engine numbers on Harleys that began my collecting
photos of original numbers of British bikes.

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Originally Posted by Irish Swede
How old is your Harley, John?
1920.

The frame, engine and gearbox all have 1920 numbers on them and I have enough history on the bike to be as sure as anyone can be that the pieces are the same parts that left the factory together.

Interesting that some later (?) bikes didn't have frame numbers.

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Quote
It came from a legitimate bike breaker who had all the paperwork showing that it had come via the police who had recovered it

If there is a paperwork trail back to the UK Police then the engine is yours, with no UK Police link then even if bought and sold with good faith then the original owner stills owns the engine and can reclaim with no compensation due. As soon as the UK Police sell something this right of claim is lost.

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About 10 years ago I sold a 67 Bonnie, beautiful bike, but the engine was destroyed, I saw the guy five years later and he had the bike with a replacement set of cases with matching numbers. He said the guy who did the engine work restamped the cases. It was perfect, what he did was weld over the removed numbers and then bead blast the case`s so you didn`t notice the difference. This guy was good, so I`m always wary when you see bead blasted cases.

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Originally Posted by Irish Swede
Harley's didn't have frame serial numbers until some time in the 1960s.


The 1970 model year was the first year for frame numbers and matching engine numbers.


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project
1971 BSA A65 650 - Project
1972 Norton Commando 750 "Combat"


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THAT late?

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Originally Posted by jeb
About 10 years ago I sold a 67 Bonnie, beautiful bike, but the engine was destroyed, I saw the guy five years later and he had the bike with a replacement set of cases with matching numbers. He said the guy who did the engine work restamped the cases. It was perfect, what he did was weld over the removed numbers and then bead blast the case`s so you didn`t notice the difference. This guy was good, so I`m always wary when you see bead blasted cases.


My comment was referring to the issue that just about every "restored" motorcycle today has either bead blasted or vapor blasted the engine cases.


Bill B...


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