Britbike forum Forums British Motorcycle specific Brands Triumph bulletin board Clutch lever fastener

This keeps happening to me. This metal is too soft for this amount of work and snaps off….happens to anyone else?

https://ibb.co/c2BKmmb

Not in 59 years.

Designed to work only in a cold damp climate.
Hawaii is not a suitable environment.
Suggest you send the bike to me so that it gets the environment it deserves.
In terms of the breakage---add my 60 years of Brit biking to Desco's 59---never seen that before.
You say it keeps happening--- how many times?

Hi Splash, Not common to fracture. I’ve seen that though

A few thoughts. The perch must match bar diameter.

The flat tab lever bolts to must contact bar such it supports the lever, so it doesn’t over stress the clamp.

In photo I see some black thing around bar. Looks like rubber??

If bar must be shimmed for clamp, the shim should be steel & wide enough for the flat support section to rest on.

How hard is lever pull? Crazy hard may be too much force?
However I’ve seen this steel perch used with stiff T140 or Barnett stiff racing springs.

Form what I think I’m seeing in photo is a shim?? Is that correct or something else?
Don

Oh yeah, lose the rubber. Only needs to be tight enough not to rotate. The two halves of the clamp don't need to touch.

part looks well used , you say you have broken more than one ?

The original broke few months ago. Ordered new one and happens again. I added the rubber to stop it from sliding left and right on the handle bar all the time which was another issue it was doing. Always a clutch issue it seems🤷🏻‍♂️.

Nice try tridentman 😁😎.

Hi Splash, Why is it sliding left to right? That's not common or right. They don't do that. If yours does, it's not clamping right. What about the flat support tab that supports lever that rests on bar. Did it sit flat & tight to bar?

Kind of sounding like your bar is too skinny or bent where perch goes???

I thought your clutch was good now?

I know you've had a lot of clutch issues on your bike. All I can say is when the parts are not worn out, correctly assembled & adjusted, the clutch works & lasts well. I have a lot of experience with Triumph unit 650 & T140 clutches. All I'm saying when done correctly, they work very well & give owners no trouble for a good 15k++ miles. They are not forgiving of wear or incorrect assembly. But... repro clutch rubbers seem to only last about 3-5 years tops.

The weakest part is the repro cush rubbers. I recently installed the polyurethane rubbers. We'll see how they hold up long term. On paper they should be much better. But who knows what real life will show? The feel of them when riding bike is exactly the same a new normal black rubber ones even though urethane feels harder to the touch. I have just under 1000 miles on them now.

I very well understand how costly new clutch assembly is. Sadly, end of day if parts are worn out, replacing all is the only cure.

Don

You are getting a too big of a clutch lever bracket or you have too small bars. Or some cheap Taiwan crap.

I’d say your not far off from truth there Desco. My dad was having someone “work” on it from time to time. He didn’t ride it much. Only had like 8,000 miles on it when he gave it to me. I would say I have at least doubled that now.

Can anyone mic their handle bars so I can compare tomorrow? It could be the cheap Taiwan crap. My dad did have the handle bars changed some time long ago but hardly rode much. He had those 70s T bars on it when I was a kid then changed them back to what he may have thought were the original? I’ll have to ask him with hope of him remembering where these came from.

The bars aren’t bent, Don. I’m still going through clutch cables as of another today as well. I have new one in hand but I repaired the last one with a cable ferrule. It held all the cable. The cable failed one strand at a time about a quarter of an inch just before the ferrule. I am starting to believe the two issues (short cable life and housing snapping) are definitely related. Something just isn’t right up here. If it’s the handlebar size I’ll replace to stock.

What metal is the broken clamp made of?

Originals were bronze or brass, and will BEND, but usually will not not break.

A few years ago, someone on this site bought a Chinese-made repro clamp.
When it broke, it was discovered to be made of cheap die-cast 'pot metal', not brass.

There are a number of repro BSA and Triumph 1970-type (one year only) lever perches on the market. They are the ones with a hole for mirror mounting.
They are easily spotted by the die-release sink-holes cast into them. Originals don't look like that.
BEWARE of those. I suspect they are made of pot-metal.

I believe that might have been my posting .. https://www.britbike.com/forums/ubb...e & Clutch Lever "CAUTION"
Quite rightly as Irish pointed out in my video "They are easily spotted by the die-release sink-holes cast into them"

As can be seen circled here

If your looking at buying a set of new levers & they've got these 2 die-release sink-holes cast into them ? .. "Then don't bother" .. Save your money and also the possibility of a trip in the back of an ambulance when they do suddenly snap and let loose - find some old original brass type base metal ones , I switched back and refitted my original 50yr old levers and never had any problems since

You'd be surprised at the amount of dealers i still see selling these Pot Metal levers on line ,

Like the old saying goes : Buyer Beware ... Be very aware !!

The bars should be 7/8" (0.875"). Japanese bars are typically 22mm.

To summarize and add in to the conversation:
22 mm equals about .866 inch, smaller than 7/8 inch as above post.
By using a rubber shim to hold the lever perch, you need to overtighten the screw, putting stress on the mount at it's weakest point. The constant use of the clutch lever on this rubber (although tight enough to prevent most movement at handlebar attaching point) will still cause minimal rocking movement and put a lot of stress on that weak spot. As stated further above, it needs to be a solid mount which can be achieved with metal shims so there is no movement of the assembly. So your bars can work with your lever/perch assembly, it is how it is mounted probably causing the breaks.
Soldered clutch cable end can over heat the cable wires, making them weaker at the cable to end piece fitting. If soldering on an end piece, a solder pot or minimal use of heat and solder works best to retain the integrity of the wire strands. Couple that with a loose or lightly rocking lever perch, things break quicker! A relatively correct cable length is important, too short makes the cable work harder due to friction at the tighter bends.
I am constantly lubing my cables about every 10 days, as I get 100 inches more rain on this side of the island than you do....i use wd40 because I know it's all going to be washed out in just a couple of rainy riding days.........
Also sending a PM with a phone number of a guy Hilo side who ran an ad on craigslist wanting to buy Brit bikes. Figure he might have parts for sell, so I kept his number for down the road....just in case! He might be worth meeting- I have not as of yet.

Update- splash, you pm box is full, unable to send phone number...

Thanks, Bodie.

Another mystery solved.

Hi Splash, Unless I was there to feel lever effort & do some experiments by over lifting pressure plate to see if something was hitting or binding, it's hard to say.

I'll give some thoughts from my experience with cables.

First I'll say my experiance shows Barnett cables are the best/strongest in the world. Again my experience, not a fact I can prove. They do in fact have a "plastic" type liner of some material. The friction is every bit as low as Venhill featherlite. That is with my fingers. Oiling cable with motor oil reduces the little friction it has a fair amount. I use same oil as in motor. Observing for full 8 years has not deteriorated liner. Barnett cables are not soldered, but ends are swaged steel. I've never seen a Barnett end pull of yet. Seen a lot of Barnett cables. Pretty much all the guys I know use Barnett. I can't think of one that doesn't. After I had several cable failures I became a believer in Barnett as well.

I've seen many cables pull off the top end or bottom end. Meaning the solder let go. I've seen some where cable strands fracture. I have had 2 Barnett cables fracture at wire. Always at the bottom as yours.

Studying this carefully over a few years, I found the Triupmph, Emgo, Venhill were good for about 3000 miles. Emgo & Venhill tended to pull either top or bottom end off, usually the top. I had 2 Triumph cables pull top off. The other 2 broke wires above lower end. I've learned to replace Barnett cable every 14K miles.

However.... After the study I've observed some bikes the cables last really long time. 25-30+k miles. Other fracture even quicker than mine.

Visual exam through the trans filler hole while assistant pulls lever shows some bikes the lower cable ball end pivots smoothly in cam lever, with zero visible flex or bending of inner cable as the lever moves. The ones that seem to break lower wire, the cable ball resists pivoting in the cam lever. My cable ball was hardly pivoting at all. I could see as lever moved, the inner wire flexed/bent instead of ball pivoting.

Now I get to my lack of real world experience. Why does some pivot & some not. Looking at only a few cam levers I noticed some are sharp cornered where ball rides, some are rounded where ball rides. I only have 2 cam levers on hand. Mine & a swap meet one.

On the bench with lever in vise I tried to pivot ball of various cables. Funny (not really) the original genuine Triumph cable pivoted the best. Yet not perfect. Venhill was worst by far (other Venhill may do better, but the 2 I had on hand were not good). Emgo was poor. Barnett was fair amount worse than Triumph, but better than the others.

So I took grinding stone in Dremel tool & rounded the "slot" a little to what I felt was best compromise. Barnett cable pivoted smoothly in my modified lever on bench. However.... In real life in transmission, the improvement was only maybe 35-40% better. It didn't pivot smoothly like on bench. Not surprised really as the force, friction in real life is many times my testing on bench.

So what to do? I did nothing. Just leaving it for now. I'll see if it wears in better. I expect it will not improve.

Real cure?? I don't know. My thoughts is taking something like a .010" feeler gauge, cut a slot in it, bend it into a curve & clamp it around ball end. So ball has hard surface to pivot on. Would this actually work? I don't know. It'll have to wait for rainy day.

In the mean time, would you look & see if your inner wire is bending like mine was/is. I've very curious about that. I find I must have assistant pull lever or I can't really see the flex.

Just to be sure, look at the inspection plug for the rod adjuster access. In some cases end of adjuster screw hits the plug. If so you'll see a rub mark inside of plug. The hitting of course puts great pressure on cable & lever, yet you don't exactly feel it as you'd think. This was very common on T140 bikes. Mine hit, I've seen 2 others hit. Grinding slotted end of screw shorter is what I always do. Then hacksaw new slot in end. I've not observed a 650 hitting, but check.

I got really good at riding with broken clutch cable. Rural roads no big deal. In the city, not so easy. Certainly not good for the trans.
Don

Cleared inbox Deadstiffcatt.

Don, thanks. I’ll check out the bottom pivot ball for you when I install new Venhill cable. Now I do remember my first one breaking at the bottom and I put a ferrule at bottom in which others questioned in picture. You may have to remind me later as I may forget waiting for new lever to come in.

First thing my friend said was, “looks like ‘pot metal’ to me”. Unsure about the two dots on bottom, will check tomorrow, but definitely has mirror hole.

So, looking for manufacturer that has lever not made of pot metal if want to send to my inbox. Thanks.

Would also like to add… I thought about using a metal aluminum shim to keep from sliding. The corrosion from the salty beach breezes is always on the back of my mind and when putting two different types of metals together it speeds up the corrosion in that area. So I used a piece of rubber instead. This time I won’t use anything.

There are hundreds of steel to aluminium interfaces on a bike.

I have aluminium brake and clutch levers and clock brackets and a zinc twist grip, all clamped to the chromed steel handlebar, beside a windy coast.

Use a magnet to check if it is "pot metal".

That’s great, and…? 🤷🏻‍♂️
Throw some salt water on the bike daily and see where the corrosion likes is all I can tell you.


Thanks Dmag
Magnate don’t work on the section that broke.


Bars are 1.062 in (26.98mm). I have no idea where they came from.

Sounds like you know best yourself.

Splash, pm sent with numbers....

Hi Splash, I'd probably use galvanized flashing for the shim. Or the like. Even tin can. I personally feel aluminum siding is too soft. Depends what you thickness you need as well. Shim could be one wrap around or 2 halves. Maybe doesn't matter which.

My experience is the perch "bore" pretty much matches bar diameter. So that might help in shim thickness. I'd put shim under the strap side as well.
Don