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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Originally Posted by Stuart Kirk
How about adding some water contaminated ethanol to your ongoing study?
I'm way ahead of you. At least in the sense of having thought to do that several years ago, although not in the sense of actually having done it as yet. I'll get around to doing it mañana...

I should add that my experiment was to test the efficacy of fuel stabilizers which, as a result of this and another experiment, I do not waste my money on. If I plan for a bike to be parked for more than a week, I drain the carburetor. The problem I find isn't that the carburetor dissolves because of the fuel, it's that a hard membrane forms in the pilot jet.

They have their place but there are so many variables that affect their efficency it is not funny from the actual composition of the inital fuel through to the microclimate where they are stored
However I agree 100 % with your choice to drain fuel tanks & carbs , so much better than believing that any sort of magic potion will save your butt.
However from the cradle we are taught to believe in magic potions and once embedded it is very hard to shift .

Similarly with the mirrors & lenses.
From the cradle we get taught to believe in the "super hero" with divine powers above our own that will always come & save us.
Thus the idea that anyone could have done those works on a "paint by numbers" basis rather than those who did ( mainly men of course ) possesed some divine given super power of putting paint on canvas goes against every ones culture , let alone the elitist art movement .
Which of course drops right into the middle of the nature vs nurture zone, a debate that will never be resolved .


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Originally Posted by Cyborg
Actually you didn’t call them overeducated, it was just implied. You had mentioned that…other than an hour with David Hockney mixing water colours, you were self taught. It gave you fresh eyes and made discoveries because of it. Probably where you went wrong… they all collectively went into vapor lock.
Interesting how some folks get hostile when presented with something that doesn’t dovetail into their beliefs or what they were taught at the brick factory. Yes it has to pass the acid test, but something to be said about having an open mind.


An objective open mind is a figment of the imagination of philosophers .
We are born with one which is why children invent things like fairies in the garden to explain what they can not understand .
However very early on we are given a basis to understand the universe that we live in and from then on we can not be truely objective because every thing has to fit within our frame of refference.
If you accept that the earth is not the center of the universe then every thing you thought was true is now questionable and that is terrifing .
We had a chemistry prof who ended every lecture with something like "and this is fact, only if you believe that atoms actually exist "

It probably took the better part of 10 years to come to understand what he was actually trying to say and not just making a joke .

Wrapping you head around the fact that something like 90% ( forgot the actual range ) of everything we take as being solid is actually empty space between the electrons , neutrons & protons so we are all big bags of nothing is a difficult thing for most to come to terms with .

There was a paper in New Scientist ( I think ) last year where apparently there is a gene that makes humans want to believe stuff they have no idea about & that can not be proven like religion.
From memory it was headlined with something like Dawkins was wrong, there is a God gene


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If a God gene did not exist, it would be necessary to invent one.


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Liquid Volume

Note: the terms cc (cubic centimeter, or cm3) and mL (milliliter) often are used interchangeably, because they are essentially interchangeable. Strictly speaking, cc should be used for solids and mL for liquids so I'll use mL in what follows. However, a cc and mL have the same volume.

There are a variety of needs for measuring liquid volume, with some requiring more precision than others. For measuring the volume of a combustion chamber a burette is required, and the following photograph shows one that has a resolution of 0.1 mL.

[Linked Image]

The next photograph shows a stand for holding a burette when using it to make a measurement.

[Linked Image]

The next photograph shows a 100 mL Class A burette with resolution 0.2 mL and absolute accuracy ±0.1 mL at 20 ℃, along with a piece of plexiglass sealed to a Gold Star Catalina head with grease, using alcohol to measure the volume of the head.

[Linked Image]

As with all measurement tools, there is a tradeoff between range and resolution. The burette in the first photograph holds a maximum volume of 50 mL, but a greater volume was needed for the Catalina head. Without requiring a burette of excessive length (standard ones are already ~2½ ft. long), instead a 100 mL burette with resolution 0.2 mL was used. In principle someone could fill a 50 mL burette twice, but the inaccuracy in doing that wouldn't be much different than the 0.2 mL of the larger burette, anyway.

The next step up in volume would be to a graduated cylinder, with several glass ones shown in the next photograph.

[Linked Image]

Although the two at the left have similar volume and resolution as burettes, the significant advantage of a burette for making a precision volume measurement is the petcock allows watching the liquid level as it drops when the petcock is opened, stopping at the moment the required amount of liquid has been reached. A graduated cylinder can be filled to a precise volume and then poured out, but in the case of a combustion chamber the required volume isn't known ahead of time.

Graduated cylinders are useful for mixing chemical at a given ratio, or for adding a known volume of liquid to something like a gearbox or primary case. In addition to glass ones, four plastic graduated cylinders from 100 mL (×1 mL) to 1000 mL (×10 mL) are useful, although I've never found a need for one larger than 1 L.

Also useful for a variety of tasks are beakers, and sizes from 50 mL to 1 L have handled all such motorcycle-related tasks for me.

[Linked Image]

Since glass isn't affected by aggressive solvents, using a glass beaker to hold small parts in an ultrasonic cleaner is a common task. However, also quite useful are plastic beakers. The ones shown in the next photograph have more calibration lines on them than the above glass beakers, which makes them useful for the same types of mixing and measuring tasks as graduated cylinders, although with somewhat less resolution.

[Linked Image]

Beakers in "thin" (on the left) and "thick" (on the right) plastic are useful because the former are inexpensive and disposable while the latter serve many of the same purposes as glass counterparts, but without being brittle and thus easily breakable. However, plastics aren't impervious to all solvents so sometimes glass is the only option.

The next photograph shows a BSA oil pump being tested, with the clear glass of the beaker making it easy to monitor the flow.

[Linked Image]

Quantitative measurement of the flow rate are easy to make given the markings on the beaker.

For some purposes disposable plastic syringes are an excellent way to transfer relatively small amounts of liquid, and the two sizes shown below handle pretty much every task where they're needed.

[Linked Image]

I can't think of any motorcycle-related application where the 6 mL volume and 0.2 mL resolution of the smaller syringe wouldn't be sufficient if a small volume were required.

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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Beakers in "thin" (on the left) and "thick" (on the right) plastic are useful because the former are inexpensive and disposable while the latter serve many of the same purposes as glass counterparts, but without being brittle and thus easily breakable. However, plastics aren't impervious to all solvents so sometimes glass is the only option.
The type on the left are often used to mix paint prior to putting in a spray gun (as you already know) They tend to be 600 mL (in the UK) to match the paint gun cup. (I guess in the colonies they are in pints?) Also useful (depending on how much spray painting you do) is a graduated mixing stick. Obviously it has to be used in the right size (diameter) receptacle.


[Linked Image from frost.co.uk]

John

P.S. Actually, given that they are in ratio, my last comment is wrong, The receptacle just has to have straight sides (not tapered)

Last edited by George Kaplan; 01/18/22 4:38 pm.
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...those metal boxes for sockets are prohibited in many Countries; they sell plastic boxes instead.
With those extremely minimum tolerances that you want to work, well, the syringes are not at that level; also the plexi glass and filling method is good but not on that level too due to the nature of the method itself.

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Levels

Levels with a variety of sizes, shapes, and sensitivities are useful for motorcycle work, with a representative set of them shown in the next photograph.

[Linked Image]

The two digital levels in the above photograph both have a resolution of 0.1° which, although typical of such instruments, isn't extraordinarily high but is still useful for most motorcycle-related purposes. While it might seem that a longer level would be better than a shorter one, the next photograph shows that the shorter digital level, which has a magnetic base, fits on a jig in a hydraulic press to allow monitoring progress of a part being bent, whereas a longer level wouldn't have.

[Linked Image]

Although I already showed the Starrett Master Precision level in the 0.0001" thread it's worthwhile including here as well for completeness.

[Linked Image]

The sensitivity of this level is 0.0005"/ft (0.002°), which is 50× more sensitive than the digital levels shown above. I haven't thoroughly researched it, but I believe it to be the most sensitive level available for precision machining work, requiring care in making its base accurately flat as well as in making the vial in order to achieve that sensitivity. Although it is much too sensitive to be of any direct use on a motorcycle itself, it is used to level the bed of a lathe so that it will cut accurately. For reasons discussed below, a useful pairing for this very sensitive level is the Starrett 98 with 10× lower sensitivity.

[Linked Image]

I also showed a laser level earlier in this thread, but in the context of using it for alignment.

[Linked Image]

This device also is useful as a simple level, with sensitivity ±2 mm at 10 m (±0.01°).

One reason for having several levels is that none of them are very useful if the bubble is pegged at the end of the scale, so often it is better to start with a relatively crude level to get an item close to being level before moving to a higher resolution one.

A level that attaches to a valve guide pilot allows accurately aligning the head with the spindle of the mill for cutting a valve seat (nb. this assumes the bed of the mill itself is level). The next composite shows a circular level mounted on a jig I made to go over the end of a pilot.

[Linked Image]

Once the head has been adjusted using the above level it is switched for a linear level with ~20× greater sensitivity, that rotates to different orientations on the pilot, for the final alignment.

[Linked Image]

Aligning the head this two-step way is faster than if using only the sensitive level.

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you left out the el cheapo mechanical protractor level. this one is thirty bucks, but i paid only $18 for mine. but i had to buy two because i lost the first one in my tool box, so i didnt save any money

[Linked Image from media.digikey.com]

these are useful for rough measuring steering head angle, rake, and exhaust pipe angle if youre building one from scratch


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Originally Posted by kevin
you left out the el cheapo mechanical protractor level.
You're right, I should have included it. I have one myself but the plastic has warped slightly over the decades so I don't trust it because the "needle" doesn't move smoothly. It has a magnetic base with which mine is "permanently" attached out of the way to one of the uprights of a shelving unit.

[Linked Image]

I can't imagine ever needing to use it in place of one of my other levels, so I probably should just throw it away. But, I never throw anything away...

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String sold separately [Linked Image from toolcrowd.com]

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Originally Posted by quinten
String sold separately
That isn't level, that's perpendicular to level. There's a 90° difference, which is enough to be significant.

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Just to step back a little
What was the purpose of the watch glass over the head being filled with water ?
Sorry to go back bu did not get time to read the thread yesterday .


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Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
What was the purpose of the watch glass over the head being filled with water ?.
It was plexiglass with a hole in it, sealed to the head with grease, and being filled with alcohol. That allowed me to maneuver the head slightly to keep the air bubble under the hole so I could fill the combustion chamber to 100.0%.

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Originally Posted by kevin
you left out the el cheapo mechanical protractor level. this one is thirty bucks, but i paid only $18 for mine. but i had to buy two because i lost the first one in my tool box, so i didnt save any money

[Linked Image from media.digikey.com]

these are useful for rough measuring steering head angle, rake, and exhaust pipe angle if youre building one from scratch

I used that level for bending electrical conduit…Greenlee makes tools for the electrical construction trade.. Nowadays it is useful for measuring fork rake


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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Originally Posted by quinten
String sold separately
That isn't level, that's perpendicular to level. There's a 90° difference, which is enough to be significant.

[Linked Image from 1.bp.blogspot.com]

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Originally Posted by quinten
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Originally Posted by quinten
String sold separately
That isn't level, that's perpendicular to level. There's a 90° difference, which is enough to be significant.

[Linked Image from 1.bp.blogspot.com]

That’s a level!


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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
What was the purpose of the watch glass over the head being filled with water ?.
It was plexiglass with a hole in it, sealed to the head with grease, and being filled with alcohol. That allowed me to maneuver the head slightly to keep the air bubble under the hole so I could fill the combustion chamber to 100.0%.
Without allowance for the surface tension of alcohol at the hole, this must fall on the "or Worse" side of the ledger.


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Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
What was the purpose of the watch glass over the head being filled with water ?.
It was plexiglass with a hole in it, sealed to the head with grease, and being filled with alcohol. That allowed me to maneuver the head slightly to keep the air bubble under the hole so I could fill the combustion chamber to 100.0%.
Without allowance for the surface tension of alcohol at the hole, this must fall on the "or Worse" side of the ledger.

The Meniscus?
When observing a volume of a liquid in a graduated cylinder, graduated pipette, or buret, read the point on the graduated scale that coincides with the bottom of the curved surface of the liquid. The curved surface of the liquid is called the meniscus.
You dummy….

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You have the right stick, but by the wrong end Fido.
Where is the surface relative to the bottom of the hole?
Never mind whatever volume has capillaried up into those cracks.


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Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
You have the right stick, but by the wrong end Fido.
Where is the surface relative to the bottom of the hole?
Never mind whatever volume has capillaried up into those cracks.

You forgot to mention the brand and heat range of the plug. Is the plug new or used….. a road laced with land mines.

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"or Worse".
smile


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Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
Without allowance for the surface tension of alcohol at the hole, ...
I used ethanol, with surface tension 29% of water, but that's without correcting for humidity which would have made it an alcohol/water solution. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to calculate the effect of that on the meniscus, as well as incorporate other possible sources of error, and report their results to three significant figures for the accuracy of this measurement method on the measured volume of the combustion chamber, and on the compression ratio.

Spring Strength

Springs on motorcycles range in size and strength from the short soft ones on contact breaker points to the long stiff ones on a set of forks, so several types of instruments are needed to measure them.

If the spring tension of contact breaker points is too high the rubbing block will wear faster than it should, and if too low the points will float at high rpm and give an erratic spark. The following two scales are appropriate for measuring the force required to open a set of points.

[Linked Image]

The Weidenhoff unit has a nice design for reaching into the small spaces where points are housed. The other unit has a greater resolution, but requires an 'L'-shaped arm to reach the points.

Moving up in strength is a scale that pushes or pulls up to 30 lbs., so at the bottom end it overlaps with the 32 oz./2 lb. upper limit of the scale on the right in the above photograph.

[Linked Image]

Its range makes it appropriate for measuring something like the main oil pump spring in my Ariel, whose spring constant I measured to be 8.2 lbs./in.

For the springs on valves, forks, Shocks etc., mini-hydraulic cylinders of area 1 sq.in., coupled with pressure gauges, are considerably less expensive than dedicated testing units while still being accurate enough for most purposes. The two in the photograph below overlap in range with each other as well as the one above

[Linked Image]

These units are used in combination with a vise and ruler or calipers for shorter springs, such as for valves, or with something like a hydraulic press or drill press for longer springs, such as for Shocks or forks.

Not counting the Wiedenhoff, the other four instruments in this post continuously cover the range ¼– 300 lbs. which is sufficient for every force and almost every spring constant I've yet needed to measure on a motorcycle. The only exceptions I can think of were the tiny return valve spring in the Ariel's oil pump and the spring on the HT pickup brush of a Bosch magneto. Because of their small sizes and limited travel, both required forces under an ounce when measuring their spring constants so a sensitive electronic scale was needed.

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Hugh…. Did he just tell us to get off his lawn?


Is Cerrosafe worth a mention in this thread? I’ve never used it or found a need…yet, but an interesting way of measuring bores.

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We'll egg his place later.

Momentarily back to the Carburetor Air Flow entry.
Just an observation on a design deficiency of the "Uni-Syn" flow measuring device.
If only the tube rotated a full 180 degrees it would be much easier to avoid the structural impediments usually found around motorcycle carbs.


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Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
If only the tube rotated a full 180 degrees it would be much easier to avoid the structural impediments usually found around motorcycle carbs.
I'm pretty sure that instrument was originally developed for use on BMWs, whose engineers, unlike those at AJS/Matchless, BSA, Norton and Triumph, never had sufficient skill to devise a way to feed two cylinders with one carburetor.

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