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#868297 01/06/22 12:17 pm
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If anyone has the ability to investigate their late 73 750 frame to identify whether if it is italian/metric tube frame. Please email me where I will accumulate that data to be included in the rolling chassis data.
Thanks
[email protected]


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So what precisely are we looking for.
A thick/thin coat of paint/powdercoat could well cover the differences ?

Or is there something more diagnostic.
Like a part no or frame no, or particular type of bracket ?

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The 25mm or 25.4(1") tubing and the vin/date will determine how early the italian frames were possibly implimented. into the 750 production stream.
Not earth shattering but knowing if 27 or 28 degree neck will be tougher to detemine.
Data sent by PM is OK too!
I wouldn't bother publishing anyones VIN.
TIA


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Originally Posted by Dave Comeau
I wouldn't bother publishing anyone's VIN.

This makes sense but in the overall scheme of things, it would be overly beneficial to know if the Italian framed Commandos fell into a certain number range or if it was random, as in what frame came next on the production line as grabbed by the guy who took them from the lot of frames set there by the other crew?


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1957 6T Thunderbird 650
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It has been mentioned, but not every frame thread.
The italian frames were interspersed, seemingly at random. 73-75 850's and I believe some late 750's. How ever one italian frame, I believe used as a 750, may have been repurposed to 750.
Verifying the neck angle is a chore... Will have to reexamine the front of the LH tank mount for PN?
The italian frames do not appear to be significantly different except the rear loop. The fastback tail section issue therefore never mattered except for those try to re-body a late rolling chassis.


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Originally Posted by Dave Comeau
How ever one italian frame, I believe used as a 750, may have been repurposed to 750.

Not sure what you mean?

Originally Posted by Dave Comeau
Verifying the neck angle is a chore... Will have to reexamine the front of the LH tank mount for PN?

The last* 230xxx series 750s are supposed to have had '850' frames and 850 ANG yokes (ANG yokes fitted to '230' series has been verified at accessnorton) therefore, logically, should have the early 064140 850 frame part number. 2309?? also apparently had the 750 top end on '850' crankcases.

*(230935 officially the "last 750" either built or dispatched in October '73 as there was also the '235xxx' series)


Originally Posted by Dave Comeau
The italian frames do not appear to be significantly different except the rear loop.

...And normally 60mm O/D main spine tube instead of 2 1/4" (57.15mm).

Last edited by L.A.B.; 01/08/22 12:40 pm.
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Originally Posted by Dave Comeau
How ever one italian frame, I believe used as a 750, may have been repurposed to 750.

Not sure what you mean?
dd Not 100% sure whether a metric frame I own was originally 750 or 850, tag gone...

Originally Posted by Dave Comeau
Verifying the neck angle is a chore... Will have to reexamine the front of the LH tank mount for PN?

The last* 230xxx series 750s are supposed to have had '850' frames and 850 ANG yokes (ANG yokes fitted to '230' series has been verified at accessnorton) therefore, logically, should have the early 064140 850 frame part number. 2309?? also apparently had the 750 top end on '850' crankcases.

dd 750 top end on 300000' crankcases

*(230935 officially the "last 750" either built or dispatched in October '73 as there was also the '235xxx' series)

dd I'll try and find this thread on AN

Originally Posted by Dave Comeau
The italian frames do not appear to be significantly different except the rear loop. The fastback tail section issue therefore never mattered except for those try to re-body a late rolling chassis.

...And normally 60mm O/D main spine tube instead of 2 1/4" (57.15mm).
dd "SHAPE"..metric frame different tubing diameter is not in question, I could have added "no date stamps on the gusset"

Last edited by Dave Comeau; 01/08/22 3:31 pm.

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Originally Posted by Dave Comeau
Originally Posted by L.A.B.
*(230935 officially the "last 750" either built or dispatched in October '73 as there was also the '235xxx' series)

dd I'll try and find this thread on AN

No particular thread has been mentioned so I'm not sure what you'd be looking for as 230935 is officially the last 750 and there have been several threads on the 235 series, however, there has been no evidence of 235 series *750* long stroke models having '850' frames.

*(A few 850 models with 235xxx serial numbers are known to exist as well as the '235' 750 short-stroke engines)



Originally Posted by Dave Comeau
dd "SHAPE"..metric frame different tubing diameter is not in question, I could have added "no date stamps on the gusset"

Fair enough, as I thought you were comparing Italian frames to Reynolds. Edit: As you said in your second post "The 25mm or 25.4(1") tubing and the vin/date will determine how early the italian frames were possibly implimented. into the 750 production stream."

L.A.B. #868509 01/08/22 9:33 pm
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"No particular thread has been mentioned so I'm not sure what you'd be looking for as 230935 is officially the last 750 and there have been several threads on the 235 series, however, there has been no evidence of 235 series *750* long stroke models having '850' frames.

*(A few 850 models with 235xxx serial numbers are known to exist as well as the '235' 750 short-stroke engines)"



IIRC this was Jack at "classic bike experience" who had "on consignment", a bike with confusing characteristics like late model black clocks 73, 850/300000 style cases but with 750 top end. He asked me to help with the details and he also went to Les E,
We started opining ... a short stroke that had been removed for the racing bits and then sell off the carcass.
Noroton would not sell a complete short stroke motor IAW AMA rules for "production bikes" homologation..
IIRC this was just one of those "transition" bikes.and not originally a short stroke.that had been neutered .

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Originally Posted by Dave Comeau
IIRC this was Jack at "classic bike experience" who had "on consignment", a bike with confusing characteristics like late model black clocks 73, 850/300000 style cases but with 750 top end. He asked me to help with the details and he also went to Les E,
We started opining ... a short stroke that had been removed for the racing bits and then sell off the carcass.
Noroton would not sell a complete short stroke motor IAW AMA rules for "production bikes" homologation..
IIRC this was just one of those "transition" bikes.and not originally a short stroke.that had been neutered .

Are you referring to the '230' or '235'?

The short-stroke engines were 235 series with mostly Hi-Riders and a few drum braked Roadsters in the first 500.
There was supposed to have been 200 short-stroke homologation models (as shown in the brochure pic you posted) that were either never built or rebuilt in the USA as long-stroke models as none of the short-stroke 750s seems to have survived.

The last of the '230' series (2309xx) 750s with 850 cases and 850 frames were factory long-stroke models as far as I'm aware.

L.A.B. #868520 01/09/22 12:31 am
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I'd have to turn this story over to Ken Canaga and Brian Slark who filled me in on some details about the AMA SS version. I had no direct involvement at the time and did not even own a norton at that time. The thorough blow up of my 70 roadster turned me away onto and onto Honda and yamaha for about 8 iears.
Jack's consignment sparked the story I described and I participated to find out the details. Then the SS story grew....as you know forum stories tend to run off the tracks.


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So are we still investigating metric 750 frames ??

Rohan #868556 01/09/22 11:49 am
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I think a few more documented examples of 230 and 235 would be nice as they seem to be quite rare and North America (USA/Canada) was reported to have over 1/2 of all commandos.


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Ok Back to "frames" 235 bikes were factory anything goes engine & frame free for all..reviewed and believable.

Simple and up to the 230935 normal production end, did they slip in Italian/metric frames?
email or PM me
thanks


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