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#867978 01/03/22 2:24 pm
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Hi, I am pretty sure I know the answer, but ............ is there anyway to make the gearing of 4th a bit taller? B44 1967 (ish) I have put a large sprocket (56 tooth) on the back to make the gearing lower for the off road trail type stuff I do (and it looks mean!) but it has left top gear a bit short for the few bits of "road" we have in this country. All other cogs are standard.
The bike still gets up to 60 to 70 mph but it just feels cruel to rev it that much.
[img][img]https://i.postimg.cc/Cz4GK6T5/FF1.jpg[/img][/img]

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Nice looking bike, As for gearing, the 49 tooth sprocket standard on at least the later B44 VS is not bad for the slow off road stuff and reasonable for around town pavement.

However even that setup is not great for real high speed cruising. You just cannot have it both ways with an engine that does not like to rev really high.

Like you said, you pretty much already know that the compromise answer is all about priorities.

Gordo


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Originally Posted by Gordo in Comox
Nice looking bike, As for gearing, the 49 tooth sprocket standard on at least the later B44 VS is not bad for the slow off road stuff and reasonable for around town pavement.

However even that setup is not great for real high speed cruising. You just cannot have it both ways with an engine that does not like to rev really high.

Like you said, you pretty much already know that the compromise answer is all about priorities.

Gordo

Gordo's spot on...IMO.....Dual Sport means its not going to be the best at either one.

I've competed in vintage observed trials and have made 1500+ mile road trips on a BSA unit single. I also have a B44 sidecar rig. I've tried a BUNCH of different sprocket combos.

Stockish ????? for your 67 would be something like 17/49 for the enduro and 17/47 for the Roadster.

My "sweet" set up for the road used to be 18/47 until I got a bike from Richrd that uses 19/47. I did not like that combo on my B50 but LOVE it on that B44R. BUT even with that gearing I "can" do 70..........but I don't choose to. I run 55/60 mostly and the engine seems happy.

Assuming you have a 17 tooth CS sprocket......you're at 17/56. It all depends on what type of off road riding you're doing. 1st gear with a stock 17/49 will get you through a lot of different off road situations.

Down side to changing gearing is...........getting to the CS sprocket and dealing with chain lengths. I honestly believe I've tried every combo you can come up with easily for a unit single. I have rear sprockets from 47-60 and CS sprockets from 14-19.

I know this isn't much help......but unless you're tackling some really nasty stuff off road......the stock 17/49 should get you through most of it and not be such a strain on the highway. 16/49 would be my next try. But that's what it's going to take........trying different combos that will work with your situation.

BTW.........Beautiful motorcycle!!!!!!


Gordon in NC

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 01/03/22 5:15 pm.

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I'm running 19/47 on my B44 and whilst it makes cruising at 55/60 mph relatively relaxed, it does limit further acceleration and getting much past 75 or so is a struggle, which is just as well as I don't think these engines like to rev too much. When riding around town at 25-30mph, I don't really get much chance to get out of second gear.

For my bike, I suspect 19/49 is probably a better combination so might give that a try.

Great looking bike !


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I just got through changing my B50 from the 19/47, it just didn't like that combo.....not sure why. .

I had no clue what Richrd's bike's gearing was but was impressed right from the get go with it. The chain was worn so I replaced that and counted teeth. 19/47 is now my favorite combo for my road going Roadster. Luckily BOTH sprockets were in great shape with both being new ( I think?). I was patting him on the back about it.....but won't mention the worn out 530 chain he was running. laughing Thank goodness he'd only put 500 miles or so on it.

Chain sizes change and I've had to add links, use half links and cut chain........all in the search of the perfect combo.....for me. OH and you get real good at the primary side tear down/replace.

Gordon........who has changed them so many times he has to keep a journal to keep up.

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 01/03/22 9:34 pm.

Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........Life's a BEACH!!!!!!
Dave Martin #868042 01/03/22 11:00 pm
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Thanks, I was kinda hoping that some one would say " simple, just buy a 5 speed cluster from XXXX"!

Finally found where I had seen the table of ratios ...... in the back of The Blessed Rupert Ratio of course!
I am going to try dropping down to a 52 rear cog and see how that feels.
I hear what is said about the standard ratios on the VS being a fair compromise but my other B44 (VS) [Linked Image from i.postimg.cc] Is just too tall for my riding and conditions.

Dave Martin #868048 01/03/22 11:26 pm
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There is another solution, and that is to try to find one of the C15/B40 Trials transmissions. I don't know much about them except that 4th gear is supposed to be way higher than the lower gears.

Also, Mark Cook (PES) has made some lower 1st and 2nd gear sets to fit a standard B44/B50 transmission. I had one of his 1st gear sets for one of my land speed bikes, but you have to be careful about downshifting too soon as the layshaft and sleeve gear can go south if you let the clutch out too abruptly, as I found out.

Either of these solutions will let you go back to a smaller rear sprocket for cruising, but allow plunking around in the lower gears.

Tom

Last edited by koncretekid; 01/03/22 11:30 pm.

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Originally Posted by koncretekid
There is another solution, and that is to try to find one of the C15/B40 Trials transmissions. I don't know much about them except that 4th gear is supposed to be way higher than the lower gears.

That would be the WD B40 gears, sometimes found in trials bikes today. 1-3 are close ratio, with a wide gap to top gear.


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[Linked Image]


Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........Life's a BEACH!!!!!!
Dave Martin #868291 01/06/22 11:43 am
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Hmmm ......... where? and how much?

Dave Martin #868298 01/06/22 12:27 pm
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Sorry Dave……I’m not ready to let it go…..just showing off.

Gordon in NC USA


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Each change of sprocket improves something at the expense of something else. If you "Want to have your cake and wat it too" you really need a fifth gear. Remember when American cars had 3 speed transmissions uggg!. If you are going to run above 55mph most of the time the 19/47 keeps the vibes down. OTOH that combo doesn't work so good between 40-50mph as it requires a lot of running in 3rd gear. So, my advice is decide what speeds you'll be riding and get it right the first time, so you don't have to pull that whole primary side off to change the drive sprocket. One tooth on the drive sprocket gets you a little over 5% change whereas a change of the rear sprocket only gets a bit over 2% change.

IMO if you are gonna run on flat roads and occasionally on a four lane use a 19/47. If you are in exclusively hilly country roads, like TSMR 18/47 or even 17/47 might be the best. 17/47 was always too low for me.
Mr Mike

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Dave Martin #868407 01/07/22 11:30 pm
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Originally Posted by Dave Martin
Hmmm ......... where? and how much?

I likely have all the wide ratio gears, and ALOT is how much.

The wide ratio gears that would drop into a B44 motor are extremely thin on the ground. Earlier C15 wide ratio gears would not drop into an end fed side points motor.

Peter


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Mr Mike #868439 01/08/22 6:36 am
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Originally Posted by Mr Mike
Each change of sprocket improves something at the expense of something else. If you "Want to have your cake and wat it too" you really need a fifth gear. Remember when American cars had 3 speed transmissions uggg!. If you are going to run above 55mph most of the time the 19/47 keeps the vibes down. OTOH that combo doesn't work so good between 40-50mph as it requires a lot of running in 3rd gear. So, my advice is decide what speeds you'll be riding and get it right the first time, so you don't have to pull that whole primary side off to change the drive sprocket. One tooth on the drive sprocket gets you a little over 5% change whereas a change of the rear sprocket only gets a bit over 2% change.

IMO if you are gonna run on flat roads and occasionally on a four lane use a 19/47. If you are in exclusively hilly country roads, like TSMR 18/47 or even 17/47 might be the best. 17/47 was always too low for me.
Mr Mike

The trick to a long and happy life on you Brit Bike is to find the swet spot.

Because of the varations during manufacture all of them seem to have a sweet spot, ( where the vibrations tend to cancll out & the bike runs smoothly in a different rev range and for a different rev span . Once you know what revs the engine likes then you sprocket your bike so the bulk of the riding will be in that range.
Now what gearing you use to get there will depend upon how you ride. where & you ride
If you spemd all day on interstates then you will need taller gearing than if you spend all day in the twisties along mountain passes & river courses .
A daily comuter bike through suburban traffic will be beter with lower gearing and perhaps a smaller rear sprocket & chain for weekend sojourns in fun land.
I ran my bike over carbed & over geared so it would keep up with the A65's on the flat but that meant dropping down a gear or two & thrashing whenever anything that looks like an incline came into view .


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I'm glad you said that Peter. As I have just bought the new rear sprocket and chain from you I would have been well teed off if you said " Hey no problem, the gears are REAL cheap and a snip to fit" !!

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Originally Posted by Dave Martin
I'm glad you said that Peter. As I have just bought the new rear sprocket and chain from you I would have been well teed off if you said " Hey no problem, the gears are REAL cheap and a snip to fit" !!

I have to agree that the trials/WD40 type transmission "might" be just the perfect combo BUT......swapping the tranny out THEN finding out it isn't would be a pain........and Peter says ( and he'd know) costly. I have 2 of those transmissions but it never even crossed my mind to try one of them in a bike I'd ride on the road. ( I've given up all my off road riding.....while I still don't walk with a limp) I have the sprocket swap drill down and I like the fact that I can change it if I want to.

That said.......Trevor is spot on IMO. Each bike has a sweet spot for one reason or another. I have 4 unit singles on the road......no two have the same gearing even though they ride over the same roads. (C25, B44R x 2 and a B50)

My only advice from my personal experience.......unless you're tackling some REALLY nasty off road stuff that 56 tooth rear is to big. The B44 Enduro/Special was a sort of (IMO) a dual sport right from the factory (not the VR or SS) and those engineers were pretty smart. They had lots of real world data to draw off of.

YRMV..........Good luck, Gordon in NC

[Linked Image] Perfect example of if it isn't broken.......leave it alone. This was my Giro USA bike ( 1967 C25) and I was having trouble with the special sections. I was blaming it on too high of gearing. SO.......I changed it to the same as the later Triumph T25's lower gearing. Didn't help me in the sections one bit and absolutely ruined the bike for the open road. Had to repeat this to get it back to stock. Live and learn.

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 01/08/22 6:01 pm.

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Gordon,
As much as you tinker, you need a lift to put these bikes on. I built one out of plywood and 2x4's and it raises up with a garage jack. It goes from a ramp to level at 24 inches. A couple of ratchet straps keep it very stable. Then get one of those scoot around stools at Harbor Freight and you'll be doing your back and knees a favor.

Mr Mike

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Mr Mike #868796 01/11/22 11:07 pm
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Originally Posted by Mr Mike
Gordon,
As much as you tinker, you need a lift to put these bikes on. I built one out of plywood and 2x4's and it raises up with a garage jack. It goes from a ramp to level at 24 inches. A couple of ratchet straps keep it very stable. Then get one of those scoot around stools at Harbor Freight and you'll be doing your back and knees a favor.

Mr Mike


Mr Mike.........bless you sir. What I need is ANOTHER 3 lifts. I have one lift in the shop but it always seems to have a bike living on it when another one needs help. I'd like to have a set up like the Carter Brothers had........6-7 lifts. In the photo the shop is full so the work is being done in the garage......takes just a couple of hours.

I NEED to down size. It's coming, but I'm just not there yet.

Sprocket swaps.........I've done enough of them that it's not a big deal at all. Getting started is the hardest part......and fiddling with getting the wheels aligned and chain tension sorted. But the rest of it is a snap......even for an old man.....so far. I honestly "think" I have my bikes where I want them now. Not 100% sure about the B50.....it's my least favorite bike so it's not getting ridden much.

No more Giro USA ( just didn't fit in with that crowd) and my trials ( off road) days are over.

See ya at the beach........Gordon


Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........Life's a BEACH!!!!!!

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