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#865816 12/10/21 6:14 am
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I may have bought very NOS condensers. Does anyone have a lead on where to get fresh ones?

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Whilst condensors are meant to fail over time (even if unused) I found my bike ran better and started first kick with the originals than with the after market ones. Don't know why.... Just did.

I bought the after market ones as I did have an ignition problem.... Turned out the be the coil that was faulty, despite metering out ok.


Id give the ones you have a go first, then if you have a problem change them. The condesors available for britbikes are pretty poor, but you could find some OEM brand ones for a 70's Honda (which would also have been 12v and used a 4ohm coil) which will work much better, they might just need to mount a little differently.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

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71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

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those are way too good and don't cost enough.

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Thanks for the replies all. I'm pretty sure I found and fixed the sparking points problem. As Allan wrote, he has had little problem using older stock original condensers. My supplier offered the same advice even as these were in original dusty and very old Lucas packeting boxes, no shine left on these.

I already had a set of new Lucas points( maybe, new, maybe not. I'll get to that later) but because I had mixed up my wiring to my R/H coil (another thread I started previously), I was reluctant to introduce a different set of points and decided to just try to clean up my best set. I already had fairly low miles on them but were the ones installed when I had mistakenly reinstalled my R/H coil black yellow (or white ) to the coil negative terminal. All bad since then.

I installed the new? points today, retimed it, and still runs like poop, and is still missing on the L/H side, but no more sparking from the points. It seems to want to respond to the idle mixture screw, but not enough.

The Q on the points are; The ones I bought and shipped are in a Lucas box p/n WW10031 with 54419827. I got them a few months ago and installed them today. They are kinda rectangle-shaped springs. The ones I'm used to, have a crescent or circular shape. Anyway, I got them to fit with a bit of needle nose pliers and a bit of bending to line the contacts up. I then pulled the AAU out to check the travel, 12 degrees. I put it back in by biasing the centers from one cylinder to the next using the alternator rotor marks and scribes on the cam to even it out. I get the reason for wanting to lock the AAU cam out so points open are at 34 degrees, but still do not see how to maintain both the .015" dwell point gap and a 34 degree full advance timing ignition point open? I do understand the correct timing at cruise power, but now it seems to start ok with points plate at a somewhat middle position and no kickback as opposed to full travel the other way( cant remember which way?) I guess I need to find the cause of the miss first. It was detonating pretty bad after running for 2 minutes on the R/hH side and turned the pipe blue after the coil wiring mixup on that side.

I see a little oil now on the L/H side barrel. Maybe it's the head gasket? The plug looks good. Sorry for the venting

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Andy in BC,
Is it still running like poop? I hate that when it happens. If so, here are some thoughts that might help:

1. Dwell is not point gap. Dwell would be the number of degrees that the points are closed. Dwell is unimportant to your problem, but it stuck in my mind as needing clarification.

2. Those square spring points you biased and needle nosed and bent into place need to be removed and the crescent shaped ones put back in.

3. Sounds like you have lost timing, and you need to reset ignition timing. Gap the points as an independent step in the timing process.

4. The condensers are only there to prolong the life of the points. The motor will run fine without them for a while.

5. The oil at the cylinder has nothing to do with your ignition.

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Originally Posted by Bustednukel
4. The condensers are only there to prolong the life of the points. The motor will run fine without them for a while.

No, it will run badly without condensers.


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Originally Posted by triton thrasher
Originally Posted by Bustednukel
4. The condensers are only there to prolong the life of the points. The motor will run fine without them for a while.

No, it will run badly without condensers.

Agree; I worked on a Triumph that had a loose blade connector on one of the condensers. The engine would start to run on one cylinder as soon as I got it out on the road.


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"I get the reason for wanting to lock the AAU cam out so points open are at 34 degrees, but still do not see how to maintain both the .015" dwell point gap and a 34 degree full advance timing ignition point open?"

With the crank at 34 degrees BTDC and the AAU in the fully advanced position, the points are just starting to open; that is, they are not all the way open.

Set the points gap with the heel of the points aligned with the scribe mark on the dwell cam. Always re-check the gaps after making a timing adjustment.


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I don't know? Why use points? A Pazon has a 7 year warranty. Compared to fuel it's super cheap, I hate working on them when I can just get on, give it a kick and go. You can fiddle with points and stuff but it will not go better. And it will not stay the same for years.

I've melted a hole in the head of a trident getting one of the points wrong. I've seen an A65 followed by dense smoke from getting both points wrong, pistons were detonated to bits, oil dripping from mufflers. It's not that they cannot work but that they cannot work better. Going any distance was always, where is the timing light. It has a cover and people are more impressed when it starts first kick and goes without misfiring ever.


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Im no electrical guy for sure, but assume those are very similar to the ones I put in my A65 10 years ago...my mate is a genius regarding electrical matters ( not just on bikes) and he gave them to me ... I particularly liked the brand name of REFER . He said they were "self healing" what ever that means .

Don't ditch the original holder or capacitors I just wired mine in beside them but not connected, wrap loads of tape around the wires because as a single strand they might eventually break with vibration, probably not but it made me feel better....now I have 2 REFERS with me when ever I am out on the A65...problem solved.

He also recons you can use similar ones to replace the original ones in magneto windings if you ever have to rewind a mag.


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Originally Posted by andyame1974
Thanks for the replies all. I'm pretty sure I found and fixed the sparking points problem. As Allan wrote, he has had little problem using older stock original condensers. My supplier offered the same advice even as these were in original dusty and very old Lucas packeting boxes, no shine left on these.

(Edited down a bit by me)

I installed the new? points today, retimed it, and still runs like poop, and is still missing on the L/H side, but no more sparking from the points. It seems to want to respond to the idle mixture screw, but not enough.

The Q on the points are find the cause of the miss first. It was detonating pretty bad after running for 2 minutes on the R/hH side and turned the pipe blue after the coil wiring mixup on that side.

I see a little oil now on the L/H side barrel. Maybe it's the head gasket? The plug looks good. Sorry for the venting

you know what they say

80% of electrical problems are carburation and visa versa

Do a compression test and we go from there .


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Originally Posted by Mark Parker
I don't know? Why use points? A Pazon has a 7 year warranty. Compared to fuel it's super cheap, I hate working on them when I can just get on, give it a kick and go. You can fiddle with points and stuff but it will not go better. And it will not stay the same for years.

I've melted a hole in the head of a trident getting one of the points wrong. I've seen an A65 followed by dense smoke from getting both points wrong, pistons were detonated to bits, oil dripping from mufflers. It's not that they cannot work but that they cannot work better. Going any distance was always, where is the timing light. It has a cover and people are more impressed when it starts first kick and goes without misfiring ever.

I agree wholeheartedly with you but some guys like the originality and don't mind the hassle.
Electronic ignitions have been around for 70+ years now so i regard them as a 'classic' item.
The main thing about the points setup on all these old bikes is that the mechanical assembly wears
and rocks about etc, so consistent timing is always a problem without getting into higher rpm points
bounce etc.Even the simple EI's around will prevent that. With more modern micro based types, a
lot of improvements can be included such as dwell control and more suitable timing curves. Dwell
control results in cooler running coils so a more efficient setup.
BUT iv'e been shot down many times by very illustrious names for voicing my opinions on this so
let the points and mags guys carry on, they love all that.

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Originally Posted by Mark Parker
. It's not that they cannot work but that they cannot work better. Going any distance was always, where is the timing light. It has a cover and people are more impressed when it starts first kick and goes without misfiring ever.

mark, ^^^this is the key. the newedt, freshest, highest quality points and AAU on the first day after you install them will not be any better than the EI you installed a year ago and havent looked at since.

i have a Boyer in a bike i installed 36 years ago and the rotor has never been out of the points cavity.

i dont mind points and points plates and AAUs. they occupied much of my attention for years. but theyre all worn out now and take more tinkering than they used to. i like the way the EI units are alwsys as good as the points were on their best days.


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Just catching up on the forum again , waiting for more parts, and find and appreciate this thread being replied. I should admit , i made 2 threads within 2 days describing 2 related problems, roughly 3 weeks ago. At the time is was getting pretty rattled and out of ideas. Do a search if is of any interest, Not going over this again on this post.

The result was that i got fixated/tunnel vision T/S on a ignition/electrical problem. during the same time i was doing oil line re/re and l/h carb float bowel seeping

Yes i understand the benefits of Pazon, but my mindset was to bring a total top and bottom overhauled engine with about 400 miles on it back to life after 40 years in ifey storage, ignition timing was right on back then. All I want to see is any oil circulation, I want this to start up with what it had, with out introduceing any other factors like a brand new ignition system.

Which it did, first kick, but only fired up, would not want to run, next few attempts, major kickback, turned the points plate to full retard direction and viola it runs at a perfect idle and engine snaps to any twist grip, no misses, back to idle, oil is circulateing back to the tank. No oil pressure light or psi gauge

My plan was to complete the initial regristration MVC, get it running, ride it out to a shop, get the trany/shifter redone, while there update the ignition/ charging system.

Anyways all my problems were rectified after i reconnected the l/h main throttle metering pin, idles and snaps again with the twist grip,

But yeah i need to get a strobe on this again, Maybe more Just to ride it to Union Jack in Chilliwack BC

Last edited by andyame1974; 01/04/22 5:53 am.

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