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Mark Z Offline OP
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Not too long ago, I believe there was a thread on locking rings for A65 header pipes. I'm terrible at finding old threads, can someone help?

I'm getting ready to overhaul my A65 bitsa engine, and I'm thinking about possible improvements. It sure would be nice to have those header pipes sealed up tight in the head.


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That was my SpinRings. The links in the thread got broken so I will post it again here.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
The ports were not in the best of shape so I made steel inserts for it. The SpinRing parts are the exhaust spigot, lock ring, spiral ring and threaded header which is welded to the exhaust pipe. The spigot, spiral ring and header are stainless.

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No they are not locking rings they are just decorative heat radaitors .
Some do brill holes in the fins & then wire them to the head but all they really do is clamp on the pipe to supposedly stop the pipe blueing.


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The stock exhaust fins are, as you say, non-locking heat radiating clamps around the pipe. Mine are locking and hold the pipe into the head.

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I was afraid to ask "What's missing in my basket case A-65 that holds the pipe into the head?"

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Apparently nothing. smile

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Originally Posted by Bustednukel
I was afraid to ask "What's missing in my basket case A-65 that holds the pipe into the head?"

Depends on the year. Before '67 (or before '66?), nothing. Then they added a cross-brace, bolted to threaded bosses on the underside of the pipes. Then when the cross-balance pipe was added, that also served to secure the pipes.


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Originally Posted by DMadigan
That was my SpinRings. The links in the thread got broken so I will post it again here.
The ports were not in the best of shape so I made steel inserts for it. The SpinRing parts are the exhaust spigot, lock ring, spiral ring and threaded header which is welded to the exhaust pipe. The spigot, spiral ring and header are stainless.

Thank you but now I'm not sure this is what I'm looking for. I do have the '67-type cross brace, so holding the pipes in place is not the issue. The issue is exhaust gas leakage around the pipes, and I'm wondering if there's a solution that doesn't require all that machine work and welding.

I'm thinking I may have seen a spigot with a flange that bolts to the head, where you only have to drill and tap two small holes (per pipe) in the head. Then that spigot clamps onto the header pipe somehow. It seems that setup did not have finned heat sinks.


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The cross plate was used back to 1965. Before that it was a threaded rod.

I have had the end of the pipe expanded slightly to make a tigher fit into the head.


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Originally Posted by Gary E
The cross plate was used back to 1965. Before that it was a threaded rod.

But I have seen A65 header pipes with no bosses for a flat strap or a threaded rod. I had assumed those were from early years, but perhaps they were aftermarket pipes?

Originally Posted by Gary E
I have had the end of the pipe expanded slightly to make a tigher fit into the head.

Yes, that may be the solution, and I know someone who can do that.


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Dave, nice work as always

Question for you, the threaded (steel) inserts in the head...

Press fit or threaded into the head?

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Thanks Kyle, the inserts are threaded 1 3/4-16 on the outside, 1 1/2-16 on the inside. They were left long so they could be turned in then trimmed.

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Those look suspiciously like the spigots which screw into a pre-T140 Triumph head.
I had after-market adapters on my A65. PO said that the ports were worn out. However, they did require set screws between the fins to stay in place before I had them welded in.
I suppose that my late T120 will need something like that eventually. I haven't noticed any gas leakage where the pipes go into the head, but unless the crossover pipe, the little tabs which attach to the frame, and all the silencer mounts are not completely tight the pipes will move around in the ports.
Lovely design. crazy


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Quote
The issue is exhaust gas leakage around the pipes, and I'm wondering if there's a solution that doesn't require all that machine work and welding.

Using a expanding mandrel on the ends of the pipes to increase the diameter closer to that of the exhaust port will reduce most of the leak, on Unit Singles I use use a cooling ring clamped onto the pipe and use silicone sealant between the head and ring to achieve a final seal. 5 years in since the last application and the exhaust is starting to pop on the overrun again, so it either needs resealing or re tuning for the new E10.

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Originally Posted by DMadigan
Thanks Kyle, the inserts are threaded 1 3/4-16 on the outside, 1 1/2-16 on the inside. They were left long so they could be turned in then trimmed.

I figured so, to be able to lock the insert into the head

That is great

Thank you Dave

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Originally Posted by kommando
Quote
The issue is exhaust gas leakage around the pipes, and I'm wondering if there's a solution that doesn't require all that machine work and welding.

Using a expanding mandrel on the ends of the pipes to increase the diameter closer to that of the exhaust port will reduce most of the leak, on Unit Singles I use use a cooling ring clamped onto the pipe and use silicone sealant between the head and ring to achieve a final seal. 5 years in since the last application and the exhaust is starting to pop on the overrun again, so it either needs resealing or re tuning for the new E10.

I fear that if the holes in the cyl. head are out of round, expanding the pipes will not work. But I will measure and see. I've been using a product called "fingertip caulk" (a putty used to seal storm windows against the house) to stem the tide, but it deteriorates in a matter of months. Sounds like the silicone holds up better; I assume it must be "high heat" silicone.

I still think there was another sort of adapter, with a flange which bolts to the cylinder head, and which clamps tightly around the pipe. It requires that you drill and tap two holes (per side) in the cylinder head, but this is much less intrusive than boring and tapping the ports, and can be accomplished with just a drill press. If anyone recalls this adapter, please point me in the right direction.


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Quote
I assume it must be "high heat" silicone.

No, just silver silicone so hi temp should last longer, I believe is the give in the silicone which makes it work, any hard setting exhaust goo I have used in the past sets and then turns into powder over the next few weeks from the vibration

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Speedway engine builder advised me to use Permatex ultra copper on slide on/in exhaust joints. It is the only thing that stands up to the rigours of speedway


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I've used the Permatex copper on the joint for many years... and have had to re-do them also. The goop seems to deteriorate with time more than use, in my case anyway... I've had to re-do it every couple years on non-comp Victors, no heavy abusage. But it works well while it works, though somewhat unsightly. And easily re-applied.

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Ok, let me try this question one more time:

I'm pretty sure that SOMEWHERE I saw an adapter that was a spigot-like thing with a flange that bolts to the cyl.head, whereby you have to drill and tap two holes per exhaust port. The spigot is a snug fit around the pipe, and if I remember right, is secured with one or more set screws. I also remember that this setup precludes using the finned heat sinks.

Does anyone else remember this, or did I simply dream it up (or maybe it was in some FB group instead of on britbike)?


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Atticus Ogmore on Fece book, uses the set up you describe, it uses Ducati pipe flange and seals.
Link to Fece boak page, https://www.facebook.com/groups/4951224332/posts/10155730874344333

Last edited by gavin eisler; 11/25/21 9:57 am. Reason: spling

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Hi Mark,

I think what you're referring to was a piece of kit that Britcycle had in their "coming soon" category. Alas it is no longer there, but maybe a call to them will help. It had of a metal doughnut that slipped on the end of the pipe and was secured by some small lock bolts. The doughnut had two small holes that you would then drill and tap into the head. Two small bolts secured the doughnut on the pipe to the head.

I just drill for some tiny grub screw in the head to hold the pipes in.

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Hi Mark— google Shropshire Classic Motorcycles— they do a kit as you describe for the T140.
Maybe you were thinking of that?- or maybe they also do a kit for the A65?
HTH

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Isn't there a shop somewhere that can cut threads in the head to a size where you could use a threaded heat fin ring with a flange on the header pipe?

I had a Norton Atlas and had the exhaust port threads rewelded and recut back in the 70s for like $75 a hole. Would Atlas heat fin rings fit?

Better than permatex.

But not as good as DMad's stainless setup.

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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
Atticus Ogmore on Fece book, uses the set up you describe, it uses Ducati pipe flange and seals.
Link to Fece boak page, https://www.facebook.com/groups/4951224332/posts/10155730874344333

Gavin, I can't view that post unless I join the group. I'll chase a couple of these other leads first and then maybe join.


Mark Z

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