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MikeG #864157 11/25/21 4:11 am
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I am one of the “don’t use rim locks on my Brit bikes” school, but I’ve raced motocross for 50 years, and every dirt bike I raced had them because of 11 to 13 psi tires, which makes them necessary there. Almost all those dirt bikes had “modern” rubber covered rim locks that work quite well and don’t puncture a tube unless you really get it in wrong. The original British ones I’ve seen have rivets through the center and steel on the backside and can puncture or pinch a tube much more readily. If you are going to use rimlocks you might think about changing over to the more modern design. Just sayin’.

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Sorry, my mistake.

Gordon Gray #864170 11/25/21 6:42 am
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Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
Wow I’m trying to decided which reply to answer first.

1. Tack is in good shape.

New tire and the (black) tack fit perfectly in between the treads. I have no clue how long it had been in the tire.

2. KC had a rear come off the rim (but of course that can never happen)

Mine was the front. (that couldn’t have happened because racers don’t use rim locks)

3. I was riding with a group of forum members (this forum). One was directly behind me and saw it all unfold. The others turned around and found us on the side of the road. I’m known for getting my stories mixed up (MM’s don’t let facts get in the way of a good story) but this one had witnesses. My only injury was when I cut my hand on that tack while feeling around on the inside of the tire. A quick look at the outside didn’t reveal anything. Might have been the blood that made them finally (I'm pretty hardheaded) push me out of the way. Might have been this happened right BEFORE lunch and I really wasn't performing like the brightest bulb.

Gordon

PS........oops, mis credited the facts thing. NYBSAGUY admitted to that one.

My point about very high powered road racers and road bikes on modern tyres are that the pressures are approx. 50% higher than tyres used in the 70's so there is no slip betweenrim and tyre. So the chances of a 45 bhp road bike using modern tyres causing tyre slip are highly unlikely assuming the correct pressures are used. That tack must be an exttremely heavy duty variety - ther'se not a mark on it!

Last edited by Chris the camper.; 11/25/21 7:01 am.
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MikeG #864187 11/25/21 1:05 pm
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Chris the Camper wrote......"....So the chances of a 45 bhp road bike using modern tyres causing tyre slip are highly unlikely assuming the correct pressures are used."

Modern tires on an older rim design.....I agree with you 100%. You see, in my case "the correct pressure" was not maintained because of a leak.....it's that simple.

I'll also agree that it doesn't happen very often........kinda like how many of you have had your helmet actually save you from being killed. Yep there are the stories.....all true but for a lot of us it's never happened......but we still wear them because one day it might.

I don't know what to tell you about that tack...........send me your address and I'll send it to you for closer inspection. You can go ahead and keep it.....I've had it displayed long enough. The only wear I see on it are some very light scratches on the head. I don't think I cleaned it before I tossed it into my tool kit so there's probably still some DNA evidence on it. ( of course all that could be faked so at some point you're just going to have to show a little trust.......or go on believing nobody can be trusted)

Have a wonderful day.

Gordon

PS......this photo......so many memories. Some of you might see something of yours up there. Mark Z's special....poster from Steve E.....you probably can't make them out but there are a couple of hand written notes from Mr Healy when he sent my repaired cases back. Lots of other stuff from you guys......treasures in my book. That tack has been on that board since I got back from Pa that weekend.......a special place in my shop, I figure we all have one.

IMG_0085.JPG
Last edited by Gordon Gray; 11/25/21 1:47 pm.

Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........my son says..... "Everybody is stupid about something"
MikeG #864192 11/25/21 2:28 pm
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I can verify that that tack was almost pristine but I suspect the poster was only expressing surprise at how well it stood up to the treatment.
My rim lock story is: first few times I had to fix a flat rear on the Tbolt I put them back in. I pinch the tube about half the time. The last time I was struggling so bad with the second lock I threw it across the barn and put the tire on with only one in. Bad idea. First time I needed to balance a rear. Probably some of you remember me doing this at Windy's campground. Next tire change I took the other one out and haven't missed them. Carriage bolts in the holes.
I did experience a flat at speed on the rear once (when the locks were in). Never on a front. I too believe the modern tire will prevent tube creep as long as there's air in it. I'll probably continue to gamble and hope
Gordon, I think this is a record. My longest post


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MikeG #864193 11/25/21 2:35 pm
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Rim locks ......I don't use them with tube tires... I used to do a lot of drag racing years ago with a 650 Triumph street bike,4.25 K81 tire at normal pressures used then...Tire never slipped...Never had a blow out at speed so no opinion on that..
I know guys that won't ride unless they have full protective gear, helmet, armored gloves,jacket, pants, boots...


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No Name Man #864196 11/25/21 2:44 pm
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Originally Posted by No Name Man
I can verify that that tack was almost pristine but I suspect the poster was only expressing surprise at how well it stood up to the treatment.
My rim lock story is: first few times I had to fix a flat rear on the Tbolt I put them back in. I pinch the tube about half the time. The last time I was struggling so bad with the second lock I threw it across the barn and put the tire on with only one in. Bad idea. First time I needed to balance a rear. Probably some of you remember me doing this at Windy's campground. Next tire change I took the other one out and haven't missed them. Carriage bolts in the holes.
I did experience a flat at speed on the rear once (when the locks were in). Never on a front. I too believe the modern tire will prevent tube creep as long as there's air in it. I'll probably continue to gamble and hope
Gordon, I think this is a record. My longest post

WELL.........something good came out of this!!!!

You are probably correct about the poster expressing surprise......I sure might have missed judged that one....apologize if I did. I've always suspected that I got that thing in the parking lot at the breakfast restaurant ........we park out front, seems like a good place for a tack to fall out of a car when the door opens up???? lands perfectly vertical......I roll up on it??? Fits perfectly in between the treads.

It was an experience and I always enjoy reliving it when we drive by it again.........love it when you survive......could have been a different story.

Take care Bill.........Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 11/25/21 2:48 pm.

Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........my son says..... "Everybody is stupid about something"
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Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
R.....snip...

I know guys that won't ride unless they have full protective gear, helmet, armored gloves,jacket, pants, boots...


And I'd probably give it up if someone made me do that. Pick your own battles?

Gordon


Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........my son says..... "Everybody is stupid about something"
MikeG #864222 11/25/21 7:17 pm
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My race bike has a tubed 4.0/26 x 18" M&H racemaster slick on a 3" rim, 18 - 22psi, no security bolts. It has stood up to hundreds of hard launches without moving on the rim


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MikeG #864224 11/25/21 7:30 pm
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[Gordon Gray; "I don't know what to tell you about that tack...........send me your address and I'll send it to you for closer inspection. You can go ahead and keep it.....I've had it displayed long enough. The only wear I see on it are some very light scratches on the head. I don't think I cleaned it before I tossed it into my tool kit so there's probably still some DNA evidence on it. ( of course all that could be faked so at some point you're just going to have to show a little trust.......or go on believing nobody can be trusted)"]

Well that's a bit extreme, a bit too sensitive to some scrutiny perhaps. You have to watch out for these stationery items littering the road, paperclips, staples, tacks etc. I was involved in a head on collision with a filing cabinet once.

Last edited by Chris the camper.; 11/25/21 8:11 pm.
MikeG #864225 11/25/21 8:09 pm
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It’s hard to believe something so insignificant as a tack could cause harm. In my case no harm was done but it could have ended a lot differently.

One thing that keeps getting confused in this thread is I’m talking about losing tire pressure…….not tire creep. In my situation I lost air pressure. Keeping the tire on the rim if you lose pressure is what I'm talking about and that has nothing to do with the bike's HP or what it's being used for.

Let ALL the air out of your tires, ride around a bit and report back.

Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 11/26/21 12:01 am.

Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........my son says..... "Everybody is stupid about something"
MikeG #864252 11/26/21 3:33 am
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Yes, modern tires, run at maybe 4psi higher pressure than was originally specified, will probably stay on the rim very well.
It's that one time when you haven't ridden in a month and forget to check tire pressures....


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MikeG #864266 11/26/21 12:25 pm
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Well, this pretty much ended up going nowhere. Mike asked for tips for installing rim locks. KC mentioned a "wood spreader" but without further details. My only contribution was the brand of locks I use. I was interested because I hoped someone would teach me something new.

Honestly for those of us that use them I don't "think" we see them as much trouble but that seems to be the reoccurring theme for not using them. Too much trouble to install so the heck with them.......they're not needed on a road bike anyway.

KC did mention preventing "tire creep" as being one of the benefits of using them. (I didn't) KC and I shared our stories of tires coming off a rim. I'm not sure what caused KC's but mine was because I lost air pressure.

I do believe that if air pressure is maintained, modern tires on our older style rims will stay put. What I was trying to get across is.........there are reasons you can lose air pressure and when and if you do the lock "could" come into play.

Wonder what would happen if Andy launched with 0 pressure in that drag slick? Think he'd try it for us and report back?

So far we didn't help Mike one bit ........You Tube will probably be his best bet which is kinda sad. Maybe the guy he's doing the work for can be talked out of putting them back in?

You guys be safe out there.......stay healthy,

Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 11/26/21 1:18 pm.

Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........my son says..... "Everybody is stupid about something"
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Gordon Gray #864275 11/26/21 2:01 pm
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Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
Well, this pretty much ended up going nowhere.

Gordon

Well, I'd disagree with that a bit.

Six posts were just sort of back and forth silliness.
Four posts were requests for clarification.

So ten posts total weren't too much practical use.

BUT!

Three posts referred to "how to do it" with wooden spreaders or installing the rim locks first.
Ten posts were long term riders sharing their experience as to why they don't think rim locks are much use, and they don't use them.
Eight posts were long term riders sharing their experience as to why they are useful and why they use them.

Twenty-one posts sharing experience as to how, why, or why not seems pretty useful to me!

Lannis


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Lannis #864278 11/26/21 2:17 pm
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Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
Well, this pretty much ended up going nowhere.

Gordon

Well, I'd disagree with that a bit.

Six posts were just sort of back and forth silliness.
Four posts were requests for clarification.

So ten posts total weren't too much practical use.

BUT!

Three posts referred to "how to do it" with wooden spreaders or installing the rim locks first.
Ten posts were long term riders sharing their experience as to why they don't think rim locks are much use, and they don't use them.
Eight posts were long term riders sharing their experience as to why they are useful and why they use them.

Twenty-one posts sharing experience as to how, why, or why not seems pretty useful to me!

Lannis


AND.........Bill (aka no name man) made his longest thread reply ever!!!!

I was referring to if we actually helped Mike (the OP) with his request, which I'm not sure we did in any practical sense. I "thought" of going through the trouble of doing the task and recording it through photos.....but my give a shite ran out. laughing We've been down this road before (pun intended) and I think most of us knew what to expect. I was hoping someone ( I know you're out there) would share his/her tricks.

It's all good Lannis.... thumbsup....hope you and yours had a GREAT thanksgiving.....see ya in March.

Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 11/26/21 2:27 pm.

Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........my son says..... "Everybody is stupid about something"
MikeG #864280 11/26/21 2:45 pm
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I did get some help out of it Gordon. At the very least I know that the new rim locks available are compatible with the older rims I'm dealing with so I don't have the excuse of the old ones being too crappy to use.


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MikeG #864284 11/26/21 4:16 pm
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MikeG - this video may be helpful to you. I probably watched this 4 or 5 times before attempting to remount my rear Triumph tire (with double rim locks/security bolts). He makes it look so easy since he is a professional but I found it informative - and I was able to get that tire back on with minimal swearing. smile

Tire change video

Noel

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Falcon_52 #864289 11/26/21 5:09 pm
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Originally Posted by Falcon_52
MikeG - this video may be helpful to you. I probably watched this 4 or 5 times before attempting to remount my rear Triumph tire (with double rim locks/security bolts). He makes it look so easy since he is a professional but I found it informative - and I was able to get that tire back on with minimal swearing. smile

Tire change video

Noel

Bless you and YouTube Noel.

Gordon


Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........my son says..... "Everybody is stupid about something"
Gordon Gray #864310 11/26/21 9:56 pm
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Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
I was referring to if we actually helped Mike (the OP) with his request, which I'm not sure we did in any practical sense. I "thought" of going through the trouble of doing the task and recording it through photos.....but my give a shite ran out. laughing We've been down this road before (pun intended) and I think most of us knew what to expect. I was hoping someone ( I know you're out there) would share his/her tricks.

It's all good Lannis.... thumbsup....hope you and yours had a GREAT thanksgiving.....see ya in March.

Gordon

All he was asking for was advice on how to fit a tyre with rim locks. I agree, it looks like that the majority of members who agreed rim locks were a good idea couldn't explain why.

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Originally Posted by Chris the camper.
All he was asking for was advice on how to fit a tyre with rim locks. I agree, it looks like that the majority of members who agreed rim locks were a good idea couldn't explain why.
My advice, fit the locks under the rim strip and push them up into the tire upon installation. Tighten the nuts just snug before inflating the tube, then tighten completely once the bead is seated.
I'm satisfied that Triumph, et al, would not have spent the money for the locks unless they thought they were a useful safety feature. I've never had a tire come off the rim, never experienced a sudden deflation, but I suspect that it will happen the day after I discard my rim locks.


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MikeG #864345 11/27/21 1:27 pm
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If a bike has them I use them. I have several dirt bikes which need more frequent tire changes.
I usually duct tape the rim because the old tire bands get beat up. Punch a hole through for the rim lock and the valve stem.
Install the rim lock first and lightly tighten the nut so it is out of the way.
I change my tires by opening the tire and putting the whole rim inside the tire. One side is easily installed.
Use wooden blocks to widen the unmounted side and install the tube.
Put a little air into the tube and lever on the remaining side.
Loosen the rim lock and push in in. Air up the tube and tighten the rim lock.

The newer rim locks as mentioned are much better than the old ones. Dennis Kirk or Rocky mountain ATV have good quality cheap ones.
As my Triumph with rim locks is a scrambler this allows me to lower the tire pressure when extra traction is needed in the dirt.

MikeG #864352 11/27/21 2:11 pm
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I wish my method was as simple as the first video.....that fellow is GOOD. I've tried his way with limited success. I have to do my work on the shop floor and I think that makes it a little more difficult.

I fell down the rabbit hole.................and here are some videos.




I can't change my story now..( remember, Don't let facts get in the way of a good story) ...if you read one of my deleted reply's I mentioned using two wooden handled ball pen hammers.......pretty much like this fellow. BUT after watching that first video ( damn you Noel laughing ) it makes my way look REALLY lame.




Gordon


Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........my son says..... "Everybody is stupid about something"
MikeG #864367 11/27/21 3:52 pm
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This one is a bit painful to watch............................I'll have to admit that I have made some of these same mistakes. But he gets it done.



Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 11/27/21 4:19 pm.

Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........my son says..... "Everybody is stupid about something"
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MikeG #864384 11/27/21 7:29 pm
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I wouldn't let this chap near one of my wheels. The video was too disturbing to watch the whole thing!

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John Healy #864391 11/27/21 8:34 pm
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Unbelievable, an example of how not to change a tyre.

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