Britbike forum

Classic British SparesKlempf British PartsBaxter CycleBritBike Sponsor SteadfastCyclesThe Bonneville ShopLowbrow CustomsGirling Classic MotorcycleLucas Classic MotorcycleHepolite PistonsIndustrial tec supply Classic Bike Parts Cheshire

Upgrade Your membership! Premium Membership Gold Membership Vendor Membership

New Sponsor post
July 4th Sale at The Bonneville Shop
by The Bonneville Shop - 07/01/22 6:26 pm
New FAQ post
Member Spotlight
DavidP
DavidP
Crossville, TN
Posts: 7,846
Joined: October 2008
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Top Posters(30 Days)
quinten 65
kevin 60
DavidP 59
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
Lannis 23
MikeG 20
Newest Members
MartyH, Steve Sewell UK, BrokenLeg, Jeff Keller, Steveland
12,212 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
4 members (NickL, MaaseyRacer, Doug P, Magnetoman), 7 guests, and 25 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums35
Topics76,552
Posts776,406
Members12,212
Most Online204
Jul 10th, 2022
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,972
Likes: 291
gunner Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,972
Likes: 291
I'm about to button up the crankcases on my 72 Norton Combat engine and was wondering what others use when sealing the crank flanges?

I've got a tube of Wellseal and Blue Hylomar but was thinking if there is anything better?

I've heard good reports about Yamabond, 3 Bond and also Loctite 518 but never tried them.

I believe the Wellseal is runny and needs carefully painting on, same with the Hylomar but its not as runny.

Another consideration is how easily any excess is removed and what about in 20 years time when the engine is stripped, how easy is the old gasket removed?

All info welcome.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
British motorcycles on eBay
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 38
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 38
I tried to figure this out a while back and found that there are different types of each brand -example - 3 Bond elastomeric adhesive comes in 13 different product variations. As a result I have no experience with the products you mentioned - exept Loctite 518. I worked as a tractor mechanic for many years. The recommended product for holding the tractor together was 518. The only seal between the engine/transmission, transmission/rear axle was 518. Other sealents would shift and tear, then leak.
518 is a gel consistency anaerobic sealant adhesive. I've used it on mcy engine covers. Never had a crankcase apart, although there's an engine on my workbench right now. It comes apart with the thump of a rubber hammer or a light tap to wedge it apart with a putty knife.


Al Eckstadt
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,972
Likes: 291
gunner Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,972
Likes: 291
Thanks for the info, I;ve always been a bit wary of the Loctite 518 since it's anaerobic and sets really hard which makes subsequent removal difficult, but I'm sure it works well.

Mind you, the last time this Norton was put together it looks like they used WellSeal, and seal it did very well. I've been spending ages with all kinds of dedicated gaskets removal products, with little success. In the end, careful scraping with a blunt tool and a Scotch-Brite pad has yielded the most success.

Thank heavens no one resorted to using the dreaded red hermitite, or I would picking pieces out of the household carpet for weeks to come.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 806
Likes: 21
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 806
Likes: 21
Being in the restoration business I have used many sealers.
My current favorite is called The Right Stuff available at Autozone, dries semi hard. It is expensive but worth it.

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,654
Likes: 260
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,654
Likes: 260
Never had an issue taking cases apart after using 518. It sets but not that hard or it would not seal, it is still pliable.

1 member likes this: Allan G
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 14,548
Likes: 372
Well'ard Rocker
Offline
Well'ard Rocker
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 14,548
Likes: 372
Originally Posted by gunner
Thanks for the info, I;ve always been a bit wary of the Loctite 518 since it's anaerobic and sets really hard which makes subsequent removal difficult, but I'm sure it works well.

LocTite 518 and its partner 515 do not set up hard and are not hard to remove. It comes off as a rubbery thin strip when you separated the flange surfaces. It's all I use.

Lannis


I used mind control on a person at an auction.
They now do my bidding.
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 368
Likes: 23
W
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
W
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 368
Likes: 23
I have had had good luck with both Yamabond and Hondabond on my Triumphs.

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,055
Likes: 62
R
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
R
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,055
Likes: 62
Hi; what about the Loctite 5699 or 587?

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,972
Likes: 291
gunner Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,972
Likes: 291
Thanks for the comments, I've got a tube of Loctiite 518 on order now, so hopefully, that will cure all ills with the crankcase flanges.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,916
Likes: 88
A
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,916
Likes: 88
Yamabond, Hondabond etc are all branded versions of Threebond.
I use Threebond 1215, it is light grey and non setting. A small blob spread thinly is all that is needed


BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
Greeves 200 "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360
GM500 sprint bike "Deofol"
Rickman Jawa 500 "Llareggub"
'35 & '36 OK Supreme
Kawasaki ZZR1400 "Kuro No Senshi"
Kawasaki Ninja H2 "Fujin"
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,421
Likes: 36
T
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
T
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,421
Likes: 36
I still use plain old black auto silastic....a very light smear feathered by your finger tip prior to assembly. Trick is to not overuse. Tried others, including 518 and 515 but never very been as successful.

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,293
Likes: 219
B
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
B
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,293
Likes: 219
I have used blue Hylomar for abot 40 years
Dissolves in meto so not hard to get off.
In reality the sealant should not be doing anything becaue the cases are the same alloy & bolted together.
Know a couple of old timers who still use axel grease & silk thread & have done the same from time to time .


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 38
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 38
Let us know how well the 518 works. I expect it will be fine since it can hold the sections of a tractor togethher. I will repeat myself and say that it is not hard to separate when the time comes.


Al Eckstadt
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,252
Likes: 245
DOPE
Offline
DOPE
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,252
Likes: 245
wellseal gives all my motors that factory sticky-fingerprints look.


i'm old enough to remember when patriotism meant not trying to overthrow the government.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,972
Likes: 291
gunner Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,972
Likes: 291
Quote
Let us know how well the 518 works.

Yes will do, I'm not anticipating taking the engine apart for at least 20 years by which time it will either be languishing in the garage or long sold on to someone good at kick-starting these beasts.

I've previously use something similar to 518 which set like stone and needed chiseling off, hence my reluctance to use it, however the comments have given me new hope that it will work well.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 8,756
Likes: 266
A
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
A
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 8,756
Likes: 266
My 2c for what it’s worth. I am currently using 518 for a flange sealant, so rocker cover, barrel to crank case etc and any other face which oil isn’t passing through, with or without a gasket. ie not the oil pump gasket.

For the oil pump gasket I use Wellseal.

But the key thing is a clean, dry surface. Which is also flat with no burrs/raised spots.

You could always drop the compression a few points without doing any hard, a second base gasket or even a solid compression plate will work a treat.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 38
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 38
518 is removed easily with a sharp putty knife, dull chisel or a razor blade scraper. You want the surface to be smooth but 518 will fill gaps up to 0.001" (0.25mm). Before applying clean the surface with something like lacquer thinner, carb cleaner or brake wash.
Excess loctite on the outside is easily wiped off (easier than wiping off silicone adhesives). Small excess on the inside will not harm anything.
Gunner, at least we'll know whether it leaks or not (I suspect not).

Edit- Thanks NickL - 0.25mm equals 0.010 inch -ten thousandths.

Last edited by Al Eckstadt; 11/15/21 2:21 am.

Al Eckstadt
1 member likes this: Allan G
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,169
Likes: 375
N
Britbike forum member
Online Content
Britbike forum member
N
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,169
Likes: 375
0.25mm is closer to 0.01'' (10 thou)

I too am a 518 convert, although i still use welseal on some stuff like oil pumps etc.just 'cos
i'm an old fashioned old git.

Last edited by NickL; 11/14/21 10:45 pm.
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,524
Likes: 51
Parts Dealer
Offline
Parts Dealer
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,524
Likes: 51
Yamabond!

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,846
Likes: 281
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,846
Likes: 281
I've used 518 to seal the studs for the sump plate on an A65 and some other small things.
For cases I use Loctite Aviation Case sealer. It's pretty much a shellac gasket cement. Cleans up with lacquer thinner.


It's not a bug, it's 'character.'

72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,392
Likes: 29
D
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
D
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,392
Likes: 29
When you put the cases together with Loctite 518 how much time do you have for tapping the cases level at the base gasket flange, etc?

Dave

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,654
Likes: 260
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,654
Likes: 260
Loctite 518 has a 4 hr cure time but I would not want to be tapping the cases after an hour.

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,972
Likes: 291
gunner Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,972
Likes: 291
Used the Loctite 518 today to seal the cases, and it all seemed to go smoothly.

In preparation, I used brake cleaner to clean the flanges & the cam journals got a coating of Graphogen assembly paste, as did the main bearings. I made sure the cam washer was fitted the right way round and there is now minimal end float when assembled.

The con-rods were protected with foam pipe insulation and then the crank was inserted into the drive side case.

Loctite 518 was applied to the flanges and the cases brought together. The case bolts were tightened and any excess 518 wiped away.

The crank and cam both turn freely with minimal end float, so I'm pleased about that.

Next step is fitting the barrel which have the new +20 pistons already installed, should just be a case of supporting the barrel on a block of wood and getting the wrist pins installed through the pistons and con-rods, then installing the outer circlips (inners already installed).

After that I will be timing the cam using the new IWIS chain & rubber faced tensioner,


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,846
Likes: 281
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,846
Likes: 281
Originally Posted by gunner
The con-rods were protected with foam pipe insulation
In the US foam pool noodles work well. $1 buys a 4' piece at any discount store.


It's not a bug, it's 'character.'

72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,972
Likes: 291
gunner Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,972
Likes: 291
Quote
In the US foam pool noodles work well. $1 buys a 4' piece at any discount store.

Good idea, with the small amount I need there would be enough leftover to give to my daughter for her swimming lessons smile


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando

Moderated by  Jon W. Whitley 

Link Copied to Clipboard
British Cycle SupplyMorries PlaceKlempf British PartsBSA Unit SinglesPodtronicVintage MagazineBritBike SponsorBritish Tools & FastenersBritBike Sponsor






© 1996-2022 britbike.com
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5