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Born To Run
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Time for some help from the collective hive.

First this is a running bike. I’m transitioning to some LED lights, replacing oil lines, adding external oil filter, getting rid of two(!) oil coolers and generally inspecting systems.

It appears the bike is wired with the original zener, rectifier AND 3phase voltage regulator. Aren’t the zener and rectifier removed from the circuit when a voltage regulator is installed?

TIA,

Steve

11357FCE-6650-4718-B7C1-2F51E187E39B.jpeg C8ECBC47-76DF-4A42-A06E-B5CDB9C5636C.jpeg 65105A28-7B28-4669-9133-09763EE9BB86.jpeg
Last edited by JubeePrince; 10/22/21 7:48 pm.

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Originally Posted by JubeePrince
It appears the bike is wired with the original zener, rectifier AND 3phase voltage regulator. Aren’t the zener and rectifier removed from the circuit when a voltage regulator is installed?

Yes.

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Born To Run
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Thanks Les. The previous owner did not disconnect them, so the regulator was wired in the circuit to the three alternator wires I have removed the original zener and rectifier. I sent a message to the PO asking why. Perhaps to provide redundency?

Cheers,

Steve


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Just to double check -

I have two sets of alternator leads coming out of main harness. One for the 3 phase rectifier and one for the 3phase zener.

There is also the NU (brown blue) wire for the zener. I should be able to heat shrink those seven connectors now that I have just the 3 phase Sparx regulator wired on the bike,

Correct?

TIA,

Steve


'77 T140J Silver Jubilee
'82 T140ES TMA Royal
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Originally Posted by JubeePrince
There is also the NU (brown blue) wire for the zener.

Do you mean rectifier?
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]



Originally Posted by JubeePrince
I should be able to heat shrink those seven connectors now that I have just the 3 phase Sparx regulator wired on the bike,

Correct?

Assuming the Sparx regulator is connected directly to the three alternator AC wires (WB, GB, GY) and also assuming the Sparx positive wire is connected to NU somewhere or is connected to battery(+) then, going by the diagram I would say yes.

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why is there a red wire connected to ground at the sparx mount ?
red output from sparx rec/reg should connect to NU

NU is a hot-fused positive battery connection .
https://www.britbike.com/forums/ubb...-1982-t140es-royal#lg=859027&slide=2

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Originally Posted by quinten
why is there a red wire connected to ground at the sparx mount ?
red output from sparx rec/reg should connect to NU

NU is a hot-fused positive battery connection .
https://www.britbike.com/forums/ubb...-1982-t140es-royal#lg=859027&slide=2

It's obviously an earth/ground/negative wire due to where it has been attached (along with the black from the Sparx?) so I'd guess a PO has used a length of red as there's no indication of what or where that particular 'red' wire connects to, but it doesn't appear to be the Sparx box red.

I believe the Lucas RITA box (conspicuous by its absence in any pics) would normally be mounted to the rear of the LH airbox casting by the two 'L'-shaped brackets where the Sparx box was, so where is the RITA or other EI box and could the 'red ground' wire be something to do with it or perhaps a ground to the battery negative terminal for the Sparx?

Last edited by L.A.B.; 09/24/21 7:52 am.
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Born To Run
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Originally Posted by L.A.B.
Do you mean rectifier?

Oops. Yes. Rectifier.

Originally Posted by L.A.B.
Assuming the Sparx regulator is connected directly to the three alternator AC wires (WB, GB, GY) and also assuming the Sparx positive wire is connected to NU somewhere or is connected to battery(+) then, going by the diagram I would say yes.

Yup. Thanks for confirming.

Steve


'77 T140J Silver Jubilee
'82 T140ES TMA Royal
‘69 BSA Rocket 3 (patiently awaiting it's turn)
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

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Originally Posted by L.A.B.
Originally Posted by quinten
why is there a red wire connected to ground at the sparx mount ?
red output from sparx rec/reg should connect to NU

NU is a hot-fused positive battery connection .
https://www.britbike.com/forums/ubb...-1982-t140es-royal#lg=859027&slide=2

It's obviously an earth/ground/negative wire due to where it has been attached (along with the black from the Sparx?) so I'd guess a PO has used a length of red as there's no indication of what or where that particular 'red' wire connects to, but it doesn't appear to be the Sparx box red.

Correct. The length of red wire with yellow ring terminal was connected to the the white wire of the a Boyer MkIV (negative ground)

Originally Posted by L.A.B.
I believe the Lucas RITA box (conspicuous by its absence in any pics) would normally be mounted to the rear of the LH airbox casting by the two 'L'-shaped brackets where the Sparx box was, so where is the RITA or other EI box and could the 'red ground' wire be something to do with it or perhaps a ground to the battery negative terminal for the Sparx?

Yes, that length of red wire was negative ground for the white wire off the Boyer box. Ring terminal on one end, spade on the other under the seat.

Thanks for that info about Rita mount. I was wondering who built that bracket The Rita was replaced with a Boyer MkIV at some point (was mounted on the timing side on a piece of plywood wired to the frame seat loop).


I asked the PO if there was a reason he didn't disconnect the zener and rectifier when he installed the Sparx regulator his reply was "I don't know, it didn't affect anything."(!) As this bike was running before I delved into it, apparently you CAN wire a SS regulator in parallel with the zener/rectifier!

Cheers,

Steve


'77 T140J Silver Jubilee
'82 T140ES TMA Royal
‘69 BSA Rocket 3 (patiently awaiting it's turn)
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

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Electrical system is sorted. Next: gearbox. Ugh.

Had to pull the outer cover off of gearbox to replace oil lines. Gear oil sitting on bottom of inner cover when I pulled the outer cover was almost silver in color.

Gonna need the collective hive mind for this one. Put a magnet in it to confirm the presence of steel. Looks like I’m pulling the inner cover. I’m hoping it’s nothing too catastrophic. The bike was last rode in April.

More will be revealed when I pull the primary cover, clutch and inner gearbox cover.

Stay tuned,

Steve

6C4342F6-9F84-4E3F-8215-94654826E5AC.jpeg
Gearbox oil. Ugh.

B37A6C3A-5D23-4B6F-8048-8193FC4FD33F.jpeg
Steel on magnet


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Take a quick look at the kickstart spring and ratchet - if the spring is to correctly tensioned, it will hit the ratchet assembly.

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Thanks, Tink, did that. Looks good at this point

Steve


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‘69 BSA Rocket 3 (patiently awaiting it's turn)
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

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More info:

Upon inspection of the kickstart parts, I discovered wear in the KS quadrant stop (4:00-6:00 position) photo below.

I’m also enclosing photos of the two ends of the KS quadrant itself. I’m hoping that this is where the metal came from…

Can anyone confirm that the ends of the KS quadrant look normal/nominal or am I missing some metal and need to replace?


Thanks,

Steve

6F9548C5-4F5E-4D2A-B3B9-BFD9C5280143.jpeg
KS quadrant stop

CE1271D4-5123-41C4-87F1-04B92F603F4F.jpeg
KS quadrant

E112D017-7BD8-4AA8-ACC6-6546D8E9CB36.jpeg
KS quadrant (other end)


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My ‘82 Electro is bone stock except for the Pazon.. It has the 3 capacitor pack, and diodes. Got her started for the first time last night, putting out 13.5 plus or minus a volt or two. Almost done!


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More metal, this time on primary side. 😡 primary chain was s-l-a-c-k but the tensioner was hardly worn! 🙄

Not sure why, but I was expecting this bike to be well-cared for and sorted based on what the PO told me and his experience with these old bikes.

Just happy I decided to err on the side of caution and check everything before riding it.

P.S. gunge and rust in the rear brake caliper pots, no external oil filter, but TWO oil coolers: one on the feed side and one on the return side.

Beginning to wonder if I need to pull the head and cylinder (.20 over)

Ah, well, in for a penny, in for a pound!

Steve

63619581-F79B-40DC-9E60-C65FDC3B4A84.jpeg
Primary wear

F468D00E-E1A6-4475-9B03-571FAF583B69.jpeg
Top stator stud

679E542B-15AB-4B07-96CD-7CB576E70F0A.jpeg
Steel in chain case from stud


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Deeper into the gearbox we go. Fishing around with a magnet in the bottom of the gearbox/gearbox oil I found needles from a bearing.

The needle bearing in the inner cover is OK, so it's either the layshaft needle bearing or the two needle bearings in the high gear assembly. Finally got everything stripped away, gear cluster comes out tomorrow so hope the damage is minimal.

More will be revealed!

Steve

IMG_2694.jpg
Needle rollers


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shocked

The gift that keeps on giving.......we feel your pain and understand the quest.

Thanks for taking us along.......Gordon


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And the offending culprit:

Hope it’s a simple matter of flushing out the gearbox, replacing the lay shaft needle bearing and putting it back together after parts are inspected for damage, wear, etc…

Cheers,

Steve

30DD724B-87A5-4AAA-884D-6F2FF51AE4E2.jpeg 34B964B8-6C30-4B54-9A8F-81DCE6CFA190.jpeg

'77 T140J Silver Jubilee
'82 T140ES TMA Royal
‘69 BSA Rocket 3 (patiently awaiting it's turn)
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

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Hi Steve, Was high gear rubbing case? Looks like something was??
Don


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Hi Don -

Doesn’t look like it unless you see something I don’t?

Perhaps some needle bearing bits when it first got chewed up?

Steve

C2315D17-C9AC-4CF7-A741-3A0DA183203D.jpeg
High gear assembly

F921830E-5283-4501-BF9B-C6E8DE69FE7F.jpeg
High gear assembly (other side)

Last edited by JubeePrince; 10/21/21 3:53 pm.

'77 T140J Silver Jubilee
'82 T140ES TMA Royal
‘69 BSA Rocket 3 (patiently awaiting it's turn)
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
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Moving on to the engine:

As previously stated, this was a “running” bike. Last ridden in April of this year about 30-35 miles. Previous owner did keep meticulous notes regarding oil changes, every receipt generated, etc…

I mentioned the problems in the chaincase (chewed up stator stud from loose primary chain) I pulled the sump plug and sump plate. Two oil coolers, (one on feed, one on return) but no external filter. He told me he pulled the sump plate and plug at every oil change, but based on the coating of sludge I found in the base of the sump plate around the base of the top hat screen “filter “ I’m not so sure.

I ran a magnet through the oil from the sump and found some metal. No metal in the plug itself. I also found some metal in the base plate filter. Not sure how to classify what I found. Is this a “negligible amount, fit an external filter and forget about it” situation or is it more of a “that looks really bad you should tear it down the rest of the way” kind of thing…

Where I come from, we have a thing called Group Conscience. What do y’all think?

Cheers,

Steve

367F4278-31F3-49CA-AFC6-729B3E6BD82F.jpeg
From sump plug oil

96B5726E-C685-40EA-9E1B-AA25C41BB9CB.jpeg
Sump plate screen

E422D612-BF44-4071-A233-5663FCC6935B.jpeg
Sump base plate (sludge)

55B54898-D6FE-4FC2-B4E0-51B8253E6EE5.jpeg
Sump base plate too


'77 T140J Silver Jubilee
'82 T140ES TMA Royal
‘69 BSA Rocket 3 (patiently awaiting it's turn)
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

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Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
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Pulled the head, glad I did. Lots of oil down all 10 bolts, studs wrong way around (tit up), nice coat of cooked oil on pistons, but suppose it could have been worse.

Valve adjuster faces and valve tips hammered, probably b/c of incorrect placement of Thackeray washers. Exhaust side worst that inlet. One inlet and one exhaust valve adjusters were tight.

No sign of any O ring on top of pushrod tubes.

I could use some feedback on the state of the bores. Vertical striations in both, perhaps due to left over abrasive from the hone job when the bike went to .020” over (2011) and not properly washed/cleaned. Not sure if it’s serious enough to warrant a re-hone and new rings. What do y’all think?

Head/combustion chamber look ok. Still need to check for any warping, small divots on ex. Side from too small socket nut washers. Will spot-face areas and use the washers found on the outer head bolts.

Steve

28AC3D09-35AF-40C4-9B53-F24C801ECB5A.jpeg
Oil

DE771204-E61D-4D74-BAF8-A716EE85D7E0.jpeg
Pistons

4A4673E6-1409-4B0B-A1D5-F0830E24B201.jpeg
Piston crowns

CED863AE-F23F-460B-A2EE-D8FADFEB4246.jpeg
Drive Bore

BE64B297-4716-4893-B110-58FD20799257.jpeg
Drive Bore too

Last edited by JubeePrince; 10/25/21 6:11 pm.

'77 T140J Silver Jubilee
'82 T140ES TMA Royal
‘69 BSA Rocket 3 (patiently awaiting it's turn)
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

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Rest of pics

4A33DB2C-E2BA-4787-9464-BF2B22026BA7.jpeg
Timing Bore

11DBBE04-B92C-45A2-A59A-7BE87AA83CC9.jpeg
Timing Bore too

03919AE9-BA8C-4526-9BDA-B4570577953A.jpeg
Hammered valve tip

A2FB34C9-D9BE-4E9F-8EDF-30733EC461C9.jpeg
Valve Adjuster

4C4DF1F8-B61C-464D-8F81-89D3B43CA138.jpeg
Combustion Chamber


'77 T140J Silver Jubilee
'82 T140ES TMA Royal
‘69 BSA Rocket 3 (patiently awaiting it's turn)
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
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Hi Jubee Prince; seeing your post #86 1112 the photo "primary wear" showing the indentations of the chain adjuster etc; I have the same problem; I am thinking to refill there with aluminum. Or that is not possible due to the holes? Do not know another way to fix that anyway.
What will you do regarding that?

Thanks

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Reverb -

It wore some aluminum away, but not all the way through. No repair in that area needed.

Steve


'77 T140J Silver Jubilee
'82 T140ES TMA Royal
‘69 BSA Rocket 3 (patiently awaiting it's turn)
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
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