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#857001 08/25/21 7:10 pm
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Hi everyone, I am new to this forum and Ive searched for the answer to my question for quite a while... My 1967 B44 VS sometimes doesnt go into 2nd gear... it doesnt seem to be based off of RPM, ive missed 2nd at all rpms.. I dont want to take it apart until I have a clear direction what to do.. II used to only miss 2nd if I wound it up and didnt hold the shifter for a moment, mostly just a lazy shift... but now it seems more frequent and I am becoming frustrated with it.. any help is greatly appreciated.

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Jeremy N #857020 08/26/21 12:31 am
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Now I'm still new to my 67 B44 Enduro, but I can say that my neutral position is very positive. I miss 2nd from time to time just because the neutral "notch" makes it feel like it's in 2nd gear. It's almost the feeling of click-click when I shift to 2nd. Who knows if it's supposed to be like that or not but looking at the shift plate it seems reasonable...

Have you changed the gear oil and primary oil? Is the clutch dragging at all?

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Missed second going up or down or both ?


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BSA_WM20 #857055 08/26/21 12:37 pm
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only upshifting from 1st to 2nd...

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primary has been drained, clutch plates inspected, no drag at all.

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I dont want to take it apart until I have a clear direction what to do..

That's going to be hard to accomplish. Because from long distance all we're going to be able to do is guess.

My guess is.... it's probably something to do with one or all of these parts.

Cam Plate
Quad
Selector Forks
Plungers

IF you go in there might as well change out the Cam Plate Spring since it's known to break.

Unfortunately IF you open it up it's probably not going to be one of those things that just falls out of the case and you say "THERE IT IS!!!!!" ( fingers crossed it is something like that)

Excessive wear, damage, rough edges, misalignment.......it's something simple because the box isn't that complicated. I'm lucky enough to have a spare case with a BIG window cut out in it that I can mount the trans in and watch it work before putting back in it's cases.

My suggestion is........study the parts......know what your looking at that would cause the problem between the gears you're having trouble with. I really don't think someone can tell you......"hey all you need to do is........."

I KNOW this isn't what you're after but one way or the other you're going to have to go in there cause chances are real good it won't fix itself.

Gordon in NC, proud to be one of the BSA unit single guys.

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 08/26/21 1:44 pm.

Gordon Gray in NC, USA........my son says.... "Everybody is stupid about something"
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Could be the camplate is fouling on the rear leaf spring, once you open it up then you should see a witness mark 1/2 way down the spring. Fix is to reduce height of the peaks between the indents. See the black areas on this image.

[Linked Image from b50.org]

Leaf spring and where to look

[Linked Image from b50.org]

And the issue.

[Linked Image from b50.org]

Go to

https://www.b50.org/techindex.htm

and click on gearbox blueprint

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Excellent information kommando......as always.

Jeremy.......BSA UNIT SINGLES a sponsor on this site....
( banner at the bottom of the page) Has downloadable workshop manuals. You can print the pages that show the cam and selector forks.

At least now kommando has given you something to look for. My only other suggestion.....don't get frustrated if you have to go back in there. Use a non hardening sealer on the covers.....something that is easy to remove if you have to go back in.

It's one of those tasks that I dread, pretty much the same as anything to do with these relics except for putting gas in them....but it comes with the territory and when you're done and it's fixed.......it does feel good.

Gordon in NC, proud to be one of the BSA unit single guys.


Gordon Gray in NC, USA........my son says.... "Everybody is stupid about something"
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this is very interesting... I was considering the leaf spring or plunger spring both as possibilities. I would like to order any parts that could be issues while I have it open, I would like to try to fix it without it being down for a week waiting in parts...

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Assume all the tab washers need replacement, primary side gasket, cotter pin (buy a BSA one and buy from a BSA parts seller or you will get a Triumph one which won't fit), leaf spring and the backing plate. Bound to be more but until you take the covers off its a mystery.

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The transmission "can" come out without removing the primary side BUT........it's a bit fidgety getting it to go back together. Still not impossible and I do believe the procedure is written out on the B50.org site kommando mentioned. Not sure I'd recommend doing it that way if it's your first time in.

Having a look at all the bits that go into the primary is a good thing IMO.

Good luck and let us know how it goes if and when you get a chance.

Gordon


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I've heard of (but never tried) doubling up the leaf spring(s), in theory I guess it should eliminate grinding down the peaks? I've never cared/dared to try it because of, groan, consequences if it didn't work.

If someone here has, maybe they could comment on it?

I have replaced the old spring with a new one, and the restored tension made the plate then clear it freely.

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Double spring stiffens the gear change action, reducing the peaks reduces the stiffness and the risk of the spring breaking in half.

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I dont see a gasket for the timing side.... and BSA UNIT Singles doesnt list one... My a65 has one.. if no gasket, would you suggest just using
Gaskacinch? Ive had several transmissions apart on british bikes, including my 73 Norton... Im not worried about doing it, I just am looking for some opinions on things to look for to solve this.

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No gaskets on timing side. Yamabond 4 or something like it works for me.

I have doubled the spring. I was in there because I had one break. ( stuck in 3rd gear) I did a lot of miles with that engine after that. Don't remember it being a problem at all. I haven't done that with any other of my unit singles but I do replace it if I don't know it's history.


Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 08/26/21 7:33 pm.

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You can use pretty much any kind of gasket sealer on the timing side cover, the main thing is to ensure all flanges are flat with no burrs or high spots, clean the flanges with a solvent such as acetone, brake cleaner etc. and get them really clean first. Silicone RTV as sold by Permatex or Loctite works well but only of smeared on very thinly to avoid blocking oil ways, Aerobic gasket maker such as Loctite 518 is good and some find favor with Blue Hylomar or Wellseal, never heard of Gasgacinch, everyone has their favorite.

A few things to check as well as those mentioned above are that the correct shims are fitted between the gears, check the parts list for details. Also there should be virtually no end play on the mainshaft and layshaft with the cover fitted, if there is you may need to fit shims to take up any slack.

Check the selector forks are fitted the right way around, one fork has a 'turned witness' on the end where it fits on the slider, this end fits towards the clutch side. Check for wear in the cam plate tracks and that the fork rollers are OK.

Also check you have the right selector plate fitted, there was an early and later type fitted which was modified for better 3rd gear engagement. Your best best is to buy the Rupert Ratio unit singles manual which has all the details of gearbox blueprinting and how to tell the difference between camplates etc.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
gunner #857091 08/26/21 9:25 pm
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I have the Rupert book.... ive done a top end rebuild on it and a few other things, it runs well,,It has the ET ignition, starts on the first or 2nd kick... but this gearbox issue is annoying.. I want to fix it, as we may be doing a trip in October with our scramblers..I ride it frequently..

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as I recall, that was a known problem that the factory addressed in 1968 with a slight re-design of the shifter plate. the newer profile plates have "68" stamped on one of the little lobes adjacent to the 4 detent slots.

Mitch #857123 08/27/21 10:51 am
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Originally Posted by Mitch
as I recall, that was a known problem that the factory addressed in 1968 with a slight re-design of the shifter plate. the newer profile plates have "68" stamped on one of the little lobes adjacent to the 4 detent slots.

The change was in 69 not 68 and the stamp was 69 then they oddly decided to drop the stamp and go back to a T but at 90 degrees to the pre 69 T.

It was a fix to improve the 3rd gear engagement making it less like it dropped out of 3rd.

This thread has all the info

http://www.b50.org/phpBB2/viewtopic...=e125c72bb74561d0c6ef1ca6fed01169#p84405

Note as well as changing the camplate one of the shifter forks was changed, identified by a turned down section on the body. So you must change both items to get the improved 3rd gear engagement.

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Jeremy N #857160 08/28/21 12:10 am
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ha ha.... I'm in the prime of my senility...

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Mitch #857161 08/28/21 1:01 am
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Originally Posted by Mitch
ha ha.... I'm in the prime of my senility...

You're NOT the only one my friend. I forgot what I was talking about today when talking with my wife but for some reason I will never forget the fresh salmon you sent me.

My wife calls it selective memory.

Your friend way South of you........Gordon


Gordon Gray in NC, USA........my son says.... "Everybody is stupid about something"
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Check your shift forks to make sure they are perpendicular to the shift rail


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.

Moderated by  Allan G, Jon W. Whitley 

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