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#855454 08/05/21 4:43 am
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Hi John, Just seeing if you have a rectifirer for my 1969 with the 67 engine. i dont think it matters between the years. I,m planning to get power on the bike before i strap the electrical harness down after some routeing adjustments. With the wiring connections i installed 40 years ago using a drawing i made and also clymers and haynes manual for references which neither seem to match what am now looking at on my bike. I found a wiring drawing in a triumph year correct manual which seems to match and correspond how i have the order colored wires on the 3 rectifier spades.

There is a 4th spade on this rectifier which is connected to the thru bolt which is nutted to the frame tab, This is where i mounted the positive battery connection years ago, whether i had headlights or stop lights back then i do not remember, What i do remmeber is that the engine ran well enough to scare the hell out of me when the carbs slides stuck at full throttle while passing on a slowpoke on 2 lane bridge, i may have mounted this positive from battery wrong but sure did not affect the ignition coils.

And then again all this could be all erroneous because i just discovered that my fuse is connected between the negative battery terminal to a brown blue wire in to main frame harness, and then found this fuse blown and even worse i must have wrapped in foil at sometime ago.

In another section of the manuals i,m trying to use say that the 4th spade as above is used for the capacitance ignition system. would you be able to help confirm this?

Otherwise i think the other way to confirm would be to have access of a wiring that best relates a actual 1969 wiring diagram.

Which is my original reason to write you, Do you have any manual, Sources or links? which may have a better reference for a wireing diagram which is more correct on this model and year

Last edited by andyame1974; 08/05/21 4:47 am. Reason: additional
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who is john ?

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You don't mention what model bike this is, but wiring diagrams are plentiful online. Here is how the rectifier will usually be wired (taken from A65 manual):[Linked Image from motobrit.com]

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Ah Apologys For the Confusing thread, I had just wrote to my parts supplier. Then copied to here to request some help, intending to edit it, when the phone rang which then lead to long conversation, Forgot about the editing at hit post button.

Thanks for the Diagram, All i,m able to find are only up to 1966, This shows my rectifier wireing is correct. My rectifies has a ground on attacment bolt, I,m just not seeing what goes to the 4th spade connector if anything

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The wiring schematic I have for 1969 - 70 A65 shows the same rectifier wiring as what MarcB posted. Are you sure you have the correct rectifier mounted?


Current Bike: 1968 Triumph Bonneville T120R, 1969 BSA Victor Special, 1975 Norton 850 Commando John Player, M1030M1 U.S.M.C. Diesel
Previous British Bikes: 1968 BSA Lightning, 1969 BSA Lightning, 1969 BSA Firebird Scrambler, 1972 BSA B50 Gold Star, 1974 Triumph Trident
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The fourth Spade terminal in the center is a ground terminal
[Linked Image from i.ebayimg.com]
the outside yellow terminals are ac stator inputs .
the Center Blue terminal is negative output

if you need to buy a new rectifier threre are much better
And cheaper ones than the old fashioned Lucas finned rectifier .

bridge rectifiers are 6 bucks shipped to your door , 35 amp or 50 amp
The Lucas finned rectifiers are more than sixty bucks .

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Quote
Are you sure you have the correct rectifier mounted?

That's a good question .
Lucas did make 3-phase rectifiers ... I think only or mostly negative ground .
fitted from 1979

[Linked Image from britishbikebits.com]

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Hi Andy,

You're labouring with some misapprehensions that should've been clarified, should make the wiring simpler to understand:-
Originally Posted by andyame1974
where i mounted the positive battery connection years ago, whether i had headlights or stop lights
. Assuming the rectifier you're wanting at present (different recommendation further down) is the circular(-ish) plates one pictured by Quinten, whether or not it has a spade terminal on the central bolt is irrelevant; the rectifier "grounds" through that central bolt to the frame.

. Cycle and engine parts are by-and-large metal so - at least in theory - if you connect a wire between the battery positive terminal and any cycle or engine part, all cycle or engine parts are "positive ground". So it's irrelevant what's connected either to a spade terminal on a standard rectifier's central bolt or to a ring terminal under the nut that secures the rectifier's central bolt to the frame.

Originally Posted by andyame1974
before i strap the electrical harness down
. However, in practice, cycle or engine parts are either painted or corrode, neither conducts electricity, so Lucas didn't rely on them as electrical conductors:-

.. If the harness is either original '69 Lucas or modern pattern copy, it should contain a network of Red wires connecting most electrical components to battery +ve (the notable exception before about mid-'71 was the rear lamp frown ).

. No wiring diagram shows this Red wires' network but it was present in one form or another in every original Lucas harness.

.. If you've built the harness yourself, it also has a (Red?) wires' network connecting components to battery +ve?

Originally Posted by andyame1974
another section of the manuals i,m trying to use say that the 4th spade as above is used for the capacitance ignition system.
. As I say, nothing special about any terminal on a rectifier's central bolt, except mounting the rectifier connects it to one of the battery terminals (+ve as standard '69).

. A capacitor used to back-up or replace the battery is simply connected across or in place of the battery; i.e.:-

.. it's -ve terminal is connected to the Brown/Blue wire, which is connected to battery -ve;

.. it's +ve terminal is connected to a Red wire, which is connected to battery +ve.

Originally Posted by andyame1974
my fuse is connected between the negative battery terminal to a brown blue wire in to main frame harness,
Standard from about '68 on. Regrettably, it can't stop two important things:-

. Short-circuit caused by any contact between the battery -ve terminal itself and another metal cycle or engine part. Past posts in this and other Britbike internet forums indicate this contact can be by a loose tool, attempting to charge the battery on the bike (open seat falls on the battery-charger connections), seat pan bending or breaking.

. Short-circuit anywhere on the bike when the engine's running; fuse will blow but rectifier and Zener connected in standard positions (between fuse and ignition switch), the alternator can keep the engine running.

. Bike without an electric-start (any '69 Brit), if you reduce the number of wires actually connected to the battery's +ve terminal to one and put the main or single fuse in this wire, it will at least protect against the first short-circuit type.

To prevent the second type of short-circuit and - more importantly? wink - save you a great deal of money, don't buy another standard rectifier ...

. I just looked online, the standard rectifier Quinten pictured is stunningly-expensive; shocked more than the cost of even an expensive combined regulator/rectifier like a Podtronics.

. If your bike needs a rectifier, it must also have a Zener diode (in the finned heatsink under the fork yoke?). Bear in mind if that goes twang, you've negated your investment in the new rectifier unless you pay more money for a new Zener, the current new ones have a piss-poor rep. thumbsdown

. Otoh, paying either similar money to a new rectifier for a Podtronics reg./rec., or about one-third for a reliable pattern Honda reg./rec. from Ebay, you'll replace both rectifier and Zener diode and you can prevent the second type of short-circuit mentioned above.

. And you won't need to:-
Originally Posted by andyame1974
order colored wires on the 3 rectifier spades
... reg./rec. comes with its own AC and DC wires. thumbsup

Originally Posted by andyame1974
wiring connections i installed 40 years ago
Did you use bullets and snap connectors then? If yes, it's wise to have replaced the snap connectors, because the connectors' internal steel sleeves can split and then make only intermittent contact between the bullets. frown

Hth but post again if you want greater detail on any of the suggestions.

Regards,

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Thank so much and appreciation for your time your and generosity to share your experience and knowledge, i owe you one for this. Sorry for not getting back to this forum until now. As older brother went into hospital just have not been getting back to the bike.

(Assuming the rectifier you're wanting at present (different recommendation further down) is the circular(-ish) plates one pictured by Quinten, whether or not it has a spade terminal on the central bolt is irrelevant; the rectifier "grounds" through that central bolt to the frame.)

Yes I have this circular type of rectifier, I have original harness, with one 16 guage red wire coming from the rear section which goes to the ignition condensors mounting bracket 3/16th terminal and then tees off to one other 1/4 terminal which mounts the rectifier. I even have the original red wire spade connector which i assume can only be going from the + ve battery to the 4th spade which is under the bolt head of the rectifier.

(. No wiring diagram shows this Red wires' network but it was present in one form or another in every original Lucas harness. )

This was my main issue for the writing this thread, As any wiring diagrams that i have scrounged do not seem to compare with what i am seeing on my bike such as the Zenner diode connection to the ignition switch and the color code wires position on the switch itself. I usually make notes and pictures so i,m a am assuming also this is correct, but really just copying what i did 40 years ago. Your comment on this Red wire network is very helpfull

( As I say, nothing special about any terminal on a rectifier's central bolt, except mounting the rectifier connects it to one of the battery terminals (+ve as standard '69). )

Yes i have the brown blue which is correctly attached to the negative battery with the fuse holder.

( Standard from about '68 on. Regrettably, it can't stop two important things:- )

Ok i will look for those shorting issues
That explains why the engine stayed running
Ok will look at reposition of the fuse to + side once i get power
Thanks to you and Quinten about the rectifier cost info. mine just looked too old and thought replacement was just to eliminate any other issues,
But at the cost economic factor will try to test it, then go with the Podtronics install
Yeah the bullet connectors issue will be my troubleshooting starting point if the fuse keeps blowing without the seat installed

May need your help once more on the fuse relocation to the + side but seems straight forward, and maybe the Podtronics install once i get reading about it.

Thank you all very much for your help, Andy

Last edited by andyame1974; 08/07/21 7:28 pm. Reason: additional

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