Britbike forum

Classic British SparesKlempf British PartsBaxter CycleBritBike Sponsor SteadfastCyclesSRM EngineeringLucas Classic MotorcycleIndustrial tec supplyHepolite PistonsThe Bonneville Shop

Upgrade your membership to: Premium Membership | Gold Membership | Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Member Spotlight
royaloilfield
royaloilfield
Trenton, New Jersey
Posts: 1,215
Joined: February 2007
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Top Posters(30 Days)
Allan G 67
quinten 61
DavidP 55
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
Cyborg 24
Allan G 18
Newest Members
neilhart, Dguzzi, Peter McCarthy, Seb Clare, Trevi
11,779 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
8 members (BeezaBryan, Tridentman, Blown Income, gunner, Boomer, OriginalScott, quinten, LarryLebel), 36 guests, and 77 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 133 of 134 1 2 131 132 133 134
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,199
Likes: 402
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,199
Likes: 402
Today I drained the fuel from the tank and carburetor since the Ariel might be sitting for a while. However, when standing beside it waiting for the tank to drain I realized there was a possible clue to the problem of lack of oil flow, although that clue is so subtle I doubt someone of lesser skill even would have noticed it.

[Linked Image]

As I said, the clue is quite subtle, so you can be excused if you're unable to spot it in the photograph...

[Linked Image]

The line from the connection to the tank down to the bottom of the run is "dry," so it's not leaking from there, but the line from the engine connection is "wet." The distance on the right side of the bike is too tight to do much without temporarily moving the adjacent bike out of the garage, but I could reach far enough to try to wiggle the line at the place where it fastens to the engine. Although that connection felt tight, obviously it isn't tight (or there's a crack in the line).

I feel a lot better about the bike after having discovered this, since thoughts of a seized oil pump or broken oil pump plunger were on the top of my list of worries.

Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale: British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 893
Likes: 134
C
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
C
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 893
Likes: 134
HI MM and All

I have not been online since I posted my "method" so have not had a chance to reply
A Ruby wedding anniversary, weekend away in our newly acquired MGB roadster has taken up a few days

I could not open the link sent by John Healy (403 forbidden)
I also used a boroscope to check the innards of the UFM's I have cleaned out, I had tried several attempts using every kind of solvent available to me, and similarly used the parts washer pump to circulate fluid through the tank but still particles kept appearing in the cloth "filter" on the "return"
I made up a 12v 20w halogen bulb on a lead that I could light up areas of the tank where the scope images were too dark to see clearly
After the dishwasher treatments and then further solvent washes to remove the debris I could not see anything except the clean steel inside of the tank..

John

2 members like this: Magnetoman, NYBSAGUY
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,691
Likes: 280
Britbike forum member
Online Content
Britbike forum member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,691
Likes: 280
Congratulations, John--- both on your 40th wedding anniversary and on acquiring an MGB roadster!

2 members like this: Magnetoman, NYBSAGUY
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,691
Likes: 280
Britbike forum member
Online Content
Britbike forum member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,691
Likes: 280
People say that removal of the crap in the UFM by other than mechanical means is impossible.
However the crap got there by being deposited from a liquid over time so removal by another liquid over time must be possible IMHO.
Certainly conventional oil tanks on bikes I have worked on have always succumbed eventually using solvents, pressure and agitation so I dont see why the Vincent UFM should be any different.
The manhole approach so beloved of some Vincenteers seems to me to be a solution in search of a problem and advocated by people who have too much time on their hands.
Just my two cents worth of course.

1 member likes this: Magnetoman
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 292
Likes: 86
N
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
N
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 292
Likes: 86
Congratulations John! As for the car, a weekend away in an MGB can take quite a few days..weeks even.

3 members like this: Magnetoman, gunner, Hugh Jörgen
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 141
Britbike forum member
Online Content
Britbike forum member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 141
Quote
People say that removal of the crap in the UFM by other than mechanical means is impossible.

I agree, although I have never tried removing sludge from an UFM, I have done it various oil tanks including a BSA B25 OIF frame.

The BSA B25 OIF frame was problematic in that there was no way to access the settling pond other than by repeated soaking in various solvents etc. agitation and rinsing out with hot soapy water until no sparkiles or sludge came out and eventually patience and persistence succeeded.

Maybe one way to clean an UFM internally would be to add some solvent and a handful of small gravel, then seal all the openings and mount the UFM in some kind of device to rotate it for an hour or so.

This is similar to a technique used by some to clean rust from petrol tanks and having tried it myself, it does work, but you are left with the issue of getting the gravel out of the tank, usually done by holding the tank upside down and shaking it.

The UFM might have small nooks and crannies which could hold on to a small piece of gravel, so the only way of knowing you've got them all out would be to count them in and count them out.

Additionally it looks like there is some pipework in the UFM which could get damaged so best to use pea sized gravel followed by several rinses.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
1 member likes this: Magnetoman
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,199
Likes: 402
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,199
Likes: 402
Originally Posted by chaterlea25
A Ruby wedding anniversary, weekend away in our newly acquired MGB roadster
Congratulations, John! Or, double congratulations.

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,199
Likes: 402
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,199
Likes: 402
Tom, my Cannonball partner, called me from Ireland this morning to discuss various matters. It took me all of ten seconds, nine of which were unnecessary, to convince him to sign up to be on the 2022 'Cross-Country Chase' mailing list, "just in case." Not that either of us is seriously considering this, but he called me back ten minutes later to ask which of my bikes I was thinking of riding since if he arranged for a similar machine it would allow us to share spares and supplies.

Again, not that I'm seriously considering this, but if I did, it would mean a pause in the Vincent rebuild in order to get the BB Gold Star ready.

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 535
Likes: 220
S
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
S
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 535
Likes: 220
Originally Posted by Tridentman
People say that removal of the crap in the UFM by other than mechanical means is impossible......oil tanks on bikes I have worked on have always succumbed eventually using solvents, pressure and agitation.
Originally Posted by gunner
The BSA B25 OIF frame was problematic in that there was no way to access the settling pond other than by repeated soaking in various solvents etc. agitation and rinsing.....
It sounds like some cross pollination is beneficial for old bikes too, which calls into question the VOC's monastic approach to the old bike hobby.

My B50 dual sport bike, (bought as a basket case with a thrown rod BTW) Got a similar treatment although I did also modify it to also draw oil from that rear backwater of the frame that never sees real circulation unless going down a long long hill..

It got cleaned as per TM and Gunner's ideas with one possible enhancement. I cobbled up a long hose that reached approx. 2 1/2 feet all the way to the backmost end of the tank, punched several holes in the sides with a leather punch, made a restrictor orifice to stick in the end and hooked it up to a regulated compressed air source.

Then the frame was stood on end, half filled with solvent (probably gasoline) and the douche hose fed back in to supply air for agitation. It worked quite well. Lots of crud came out at first, (thrown rod remember) gradually becoming cleaner through several solvent changes, until I was satisfied it was clean. I see no reason why this method couldn't work on a Vincent or at least be part of a comprehensive approach..

I wonder what the Rickman guys or other exotic OIF guys would have to say?

1 member likes this: Magnetoman
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,813
Likes: 188
S
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
S
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,813
Likes: 188
Hmmm. A full dresser Gold Star?
Surely, the G80 would be more appropriate (with the 'M' turned upside-down, of course)

1 member likes this: Magnetoman
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 893
Likes: 134
C
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
C
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 893
Likes: 134
Hi All
Thanks for the kind words
My Better Half Bernice is without doubt a Saint for putting up with me and my follies for all these years
Ideally once I am happy with the MGB it will provide her with (independant) classic transport for the combined car and bike events
we run here, plus passenger space for our granddaughter too leaving me to take out an older bike too

BTY Joe Lucas's car components are no better on the car than some of his bike bits :-(

John

2 members like this: NYBSAGUY, Magnetoman
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,691
Likes: 280
Britbike forum member
Online Content
Britbike forum member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,691
Likes: 280
Stuart--- I did sometghing very similar on a 1972 B50SS I used to own.
Cleaned out the rear of the frame and then fitted a feed line to the engine from the drain fitting under the rear----piped in a small filter en route.
Then swopped the bike for a 1979 T140D with a friend --no cash exchanged hands!

2 members like this: Stuart Kirk, Magnetoman
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,199
Likes: 402
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,199
Likes: 402
Originally Posted by Shane in Oz
Hmmm. A full dresser Gold Star?
Surely, the G80 would be more appropriate
Unfortunately, my G80 is outside the 1930–60 range. However, the BB Gold Star was very comfortable on our 1300-mile cross-Texas experience the year before the Cannonball. A minor difference is the need to carry a week's worth of clothes, spares, tools and supplies on the bike instead of in an accompanying trailer. Oh, as the song says, a +50% difference is that Route 66 is "more than two-thousand miles all the way."

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 535
Likes: 220
S
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
S
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 535
Likes: 220
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
...... A minor difference is the need to carry a week's worth of clothes....
On a fast bike you can outrun the underwear police.

2 members like this: NYBSAGUY, Magnetoman
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 496
Likes: 116
G
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
G
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 496
Likes: 116
Originally Posted by chaterlea25
BTY Joe Lucas's car components are no better on the car than some of his bike bits :-(
Having owned a couple of MG's in the past I can testify that this is true. What did surprise me was a couple of years ago a friend of mine bought a Mk1 E-Type Jaguar and, apart from the longer bonnet (and bigger engine) it was not much different to an MG Roadster complete with the seemingly obligatory Lucas electrics and Smiths instruments.

John

1 member likes this: Magnetoman
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,199
Likes: 402
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,199
Likes: 402
Originally Posted by Stuart Kirk
On a fast bike you can outrun the underwear police.
Not long after signing up for the 'Chase' mailing list I realized doing so had been a kneejerk[*] response rather than one motivated by rational thinking. Further, thinking about hauling my bike to the start of the 'Chase' in a trailer that I wouldn't even be able to use for the duration of the event made me realize, I have a trailer.. This means I have two choices:

Stay in a different cheap motel each night for a week after having eaten pulled pork in two different H-D dealerships that day, and then up the next morning to an alarm set for the crack of dawn to pack and hit the road.

or

Haul the bikes to one or two nice locations for a week, eat meals at decent restaurants, and ride out each day from a fixed base at a nice motel/hotel after waking up at a reasonable hour, showering, and putting on clean clothes.

Hmm.

[*]I had to make this one word because the forum software doesn't like the second half of it when it's by itself.

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 862
Likes: 183
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 862
Likes: 183
Sign up here for the 2022 'Not Cross-Country Knee Jurk' mailing list.


1970 T120R - 'Anton'
1970 Commando - 'Bruno'
1967 T120R - 'Caesar'
1968 Lightning - 'Dora'
1 member likes this: NYBSAGUY
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,813
Likes: 188
S
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
S
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,813
Likes: 188
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
or

Haul the bikes to one or two nice locations for a week, eat meals at decent restaurants, and ride out each day from a fixed base at a nice motel/hotel after waking up at a reasonable hour, showering, and putting on clean clothes.
Where's the challenge in that?

1 member likes this: Magnetoman
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 535
Likes: 220
S
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
S
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 535
Likes: 220
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
....nice locations....decent restaurants......showering.....clean clothes.
Originally Posted by Shane in Oz
Where's the challenge in that?
Choosing a route through the rainbows and butterflies maybe?

2 members like this: NYBSAGUY, Magnetoman
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 921
Likes: 341
C
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
C
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 921
Likes: 341
Sounds like a bunch of wine swilling baked brie eating pussies.

Where do I sign up?

2 members like this: NYBSAGUY, Magnetoman
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,199
Likes: 402
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,199
Likes: 402
Originally Posted by Cyborg
Sounds like a bunch of wine swilling baked brie eating pussies.
"Swilling"? I beg your pardon. That's wine sipping pussies, mister.

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 921
Likes: 341
C
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
C
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 921
Likes: 341
My apologies for being crass. I tried sipping the other night…. it still had exactly the same results. The next morning I thought I was going to die.

Speaking of results… if your going to load the BB into the trailer, maybe install the pipe with the bung?

"How much “observer effect” is caused by the probe...."?

In the interests of maintaining cordial international relations with our neighbors to the north, after testing the new Mark II instrumentation system I'll shove a probe up the exhaust and see what effect the disruption causes”.

1 member likes this: Magnetoman
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,199
Likes: 402
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,199
Likes: 402
Originally Posted by Cyborg
if your going to load the BB into the trailer, maybe install the pipe with the bung?
"How much “observer effect” is caused by the probe...."?
For those who don't understand Cyborg's cryptic comment, what he's referring to is an instrumentation package I developed and used to determine what modifications to make to a 1036 or 1038 Concentric to make it work well on a Gold Star.

Somewhere in one of those threads I show the Gold Star pipe I modified by installing a bung to hold the air-fuel ratio (AFR) sensor barely in the exhaust stream, resulting in essentially no disruptions to the flow. Cyborg's interest is in knowing how much the AFR might be affected if instead the sensor is installed on a probe stuck up the exhaust pipe. Knowing this would be very useful for when using such a system on a lesser bike, like a Bantam or a Vincent, where someone didn't want to permanently modify (ruin) a pipe by welding a bung into it.

Especially on a bike having cams with a lot of overlap, the exhaust gasses spend a lot of time bouncing back and forth in the pipe and re-entering the combustion chamber, so it's not unreasonable to expect an effect on the AFR due to the presence of a probe. The question Cyborg is asking is, how much is the effect of that disruption on the measured AFR? Is it significant, or negligible? One of the uses of my trailer is to haul bikes more than 50 miles from the nearest donut shop, where I can make jetting runs with relatively small chance of getting a speeding ticket.

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 141
Britbike forum member
Online Content
Britbike forum member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 141
Quote
One of the uses of my trailer is to haul bikes more than 50 miles from the nearest donut shop, where I can make jetting runs with relatively small chance of getting a speeding ticket.

That sounds fine in the vast expanse of uninhabited land you have around together with long deserted roads.

In the UK, we are somewhat constrained with road space, even back in the 1920's & 30's it wasn't unusual to sneak up unexpectedly on a group and cause instant terror as shown in this cartoon below by H M Bateman.

Somehow this seems an appropriate cartoon given the era the Ariel comes from.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Last edited by gunner; 07/24/21 6:38 pm.

1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
2 members like this: Magnetoman, NYBSAGUY
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 292
Likes: 86
N
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
N
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 292
Likes: 86
And for a little more color on the brilliant cartoon that Gunner has unearthed, Rotten Row is a bridle path / ridiing track on the south side of Hyde Park in London, adjoining Kensington Gardens and Kensington Palace, home to various members of the Royal family.

It was a fashionable place for society types to exercise their horses, back in the day, and for upper class nannies to wheel their prams. Having a 'dirt track rider' invade this sacred space makes the cartoon even funnier.

1 member likes this: Magnetoman
Page 133 of 134 1 2 131 132 133 134

Link Copied to Clipboard
Job CycleBritish Cycle SupplyMorries PlaceKlempf British PartsPodtronicVintage MagazineBSA Unit SinglesBritBike SponsorBritish Tools & FastenersBritBike SponsorBritBike Sponsor






© 1996-2021 britbike.com
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5