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#850913 06/06/21 9:32 pm
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Does anyone have thoughts on why the long, solid cast, tapered, curved sidestand used on so many A65-A50s from 1964 thru 70 is NOT shown nor listed in any BSA parts catalog for those years?......only the short, straight, tube-stock, with foot-plate appears. I thought possibly a domestic vs export(USA) variation........but BSA catalogs usually listed those variations. Accessory item? Part # anyone? I've not seen any with a casting # either. Thanks for any clarification.

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The parts books isn’t a restoration Manual, it would have been incredibly expensive to alter the pages for the books (not as simple as changing it on a computer as would be done today) so small changes were often missed off. They also never corrected the side panel mounting bracket type for 68-70 when it started using the same one as off the single Carb models.


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68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

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Allan,... Point taken ....Inconsistency and omissions do appear, but at least in the side-cover bracket case they listed part #s for both components over those years. Erratic for sure....Armoury Road proofreaders needed better pay.

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"Incredibly expensive to alter (correct, update?) the pages of the books...", for a company that made millions of pounds per year selling this stuff?

C'mon, Allan!

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Yes, they made other updated changes thru the years, why not the drawing of the sidestand?


1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1965 Cyclone Competition Build
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If they made that much per year as profit and not loosing money in other ways then maybe, but maybe they would also still be trading pat 1973. (But that’s another topic)

Have you looked at the tank and handle bar section in the 71-72 A65 Manual.

The 72 tank shows the tank stripes tape and yet the 71 doesn’t (should be the other way around)

The throttle numbers shown in the 71 are one digit out yet make it for an entirely different part. That’s just one page. There’s also parts missing out of the 65’ Manual for the rear brake plate. It should have a spacer between the QD rear brake plate and the swing arm (unlike the pre unit bikes) the Manual doesn’t show nor label it.

Lots of anomalies.

Best thing is, have a selection of manuals and you can compare years, that gets around the part where the problem was rectified the following season.

But failing that, we’re on a fantastic forum with plenty of knowledge able people and spares being exchanged. You can always ask for someone to look at the casting number on such a part and that will probably get you closer than googling the part number. (Casting numbers were usually 1 number either side of the finished part number).


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68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

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I disagree.
These were different times.
The diagrams needed art work which was costly so not changed if not necessary to change.
The purpose of the parts lists was for dealers to look at the diagram to identify parts , reference the part number from the parts list and order parts from the factory or the distributor. On the lists referenced is there more than one side stand (kick stand)? No--then the parts list and diagram have fulfilled their functions.
The function was not to enable someone 50 years later to go to a swap meet and rummage through a pile of side stands to find one that looks like the one on the parts list diagram-- so it must be the correct one for my bike.
At the time these bikes were being made I was Chief Engineer at an engineering factory about 5 miles from Meriden.
The parts list was compiled by the lowest of the low in the drawing office--usually the youngest apprentice.
Mistakes were often made---very often because the lad was hung over from the night before or day dreaming about what he was going to do to his girl friend the coming night.
The parts lists and diagrams were not compiled for our convenience 50+ years on!
Indeed the thought that we would be messing around with these bikes 50+ years on would have astounded the guys who designed and built them "back in the day".
Just my two cents worth of course.

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My understanding of the various parts lists is this:
62 and 63 had the stand that looks like the one in the lists (42-4765) . Then in 64 two new stands arouse, 68-4757 for home market, and 42-4778 for the overseas customers, and the last mentioned is the one you want. During 65, 68-4757 was discontinued, and all got 42-4778 until OIF.

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Quote
"Incredibly expensive to alter (correct, update?) the pages of the books...", for a company that made millions of pounds per year selling this stuff?

C'mon, Allan!
BSA was doing so badly by 1969 they were broke. In 1969 BSA was begging for financing from "City" investors and being turned down. By 1969 the City had given up on investing in British Industry. Then in 1969 along came Peter Thornton in the USA. His expenditures on the Triple Racing program, his life style and warranty costs were draining millions of pounds a year from the coffers.

The art work for the drawings was done on type of Velum with pen and ink. They didn't have Adobe Illustrator to work with. Relative to the price of labor and materials if it was done today it would be considered expensive.

At least Triumph put out addendum sheets for each of their parts books when they sent them to dealers. After 60 years of Triumph, I am still correcting my parts books, and finding parts with duplicate part numbers.

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O.K..... Many good takes on the circumstances creating and the extent of the malady. But, back to the nub of the question - - - is there anyone extant that knows a correct part # for the side-stand I described?.... A major chassis component used for 6+ years, yet never identified. At least in `71-`72 when the Grim Reaper was looming, someone had the inclination to include the correct graphic and part # for the OIF sidestand. .... 83-1560. Hell! it could be the same damn thing as `64, but who knows?

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John’s account is more than just a “good take on circumstance”. He dealt with the issues first hand, with parts suppliers/makers today he’s still considered a guru. I think we all could wish to be a thought behind him on what he knows and what he has forgotten is more than many of us would ever learn.

………………..

In a pinch you could easily use the OIF side stand. It wouldn’t be a bad idea as the pre oif stand tucks tight against the silencer it’s hard to get your toe against it unless you have a 2-1 exhaust.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

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Originally Posted by pokie
O.K..... Many good takes on the circumstances creating and the extent of the malady. But, back to the nub of the question - - - is there anyone extant that knows a correct part # for the side-stand I described?.... A major chassis component used for 6+ years, yet never identified. At least in `71-`72 when the Grim Reaper was looming, someone had the inclination to include the correct graphic and part # for the OIF sidestand. .... 83-1560. Hell! it could be the same damn thing as `64, but who knows?
I'm surprised at the omission, only in that the '66 and '67 Spares manuals are very accurate in most other respects. I bought an all-original 1967 Lightning in 1972, and the Factory Spares Manual matched it in almost every respect. Ok, there were changes that HAD to be made, fuel tank, engine changes - I own that there was very little change to the frame though; maybe a different person or department was responsible for the frame drawing. I also noticed that the Spares manuals got worse after 1967, not only in the content but also the quality of the artwork.

But all this may be moot as far as your sourcing a side stand, if what you seek is even available new. I would suggest getting on the phone with a knowledgeable parts supplier and describing what you want. FWIW, I find the folks at British Cycle Supply to be very helpful in this regard. Likewise, if you seek a used part, the supplier is not going to rely on a part number to get you what you want. A good source for used parts is Skinner's Motorcycle in Alabama. They don't have a website, but you can find their phone number online.


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'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
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Originally Posted by Allan G
In a pinch you could easily use the OIF side stand. It wouldn’t be a bad idea as the pre oif stand tucks tight against the silencer it’s hard to get your toe against it unless you have a 2-1 exhaust.
My solution to that problem:
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
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Much bigger problem than lack of this part in any catalogue is a lack of physical part on the market. Wanted to buy one for the last 3 years, no luck. Mr Klemp has one for close to $200.-, little too dear for my pockets.

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Mark,.... I agree it's uncommon for BSA to drop the ball in their usually fine lit. But, another example, per your reference, the 1967 part cat completely left out the AMAL Concentric, which was used on every `67 Spitfire Mk III that I know of.... showing only the mono and TT10 GP2. Stuff happens. Regarding sourcing a sidestand, I'm not needing one - - I merely wanted to know why the 5 I have all vary slightly from each other, and why there wasn't a correct depiction in the cats until '71. I'm unable to post a photo of them here (only email),... they would have helped clarify this thread for sure. Thanks for the input.

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Adam,...Just saw your post..... I had found several of the apparently correct stands on fleabay recently, thinking a seller might have included a part #, to no avail. I'd offer you one of mine but they're each tied to a project bike. Do you know the part #? we kid Good luck in your search.

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I wondered the same thing when it took me three tries to find a center stand which didn't go past the stops when deployed. It's not just the parts book, these were all the same part number.
"Oh, just weld up the stops on the frame." And, I should have to do this why?


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As I am fond of saying
What makes you think those 5 different side stands on your bikes now are what they left BSA with.
Very common for riders to forget to retract the stand to the detriment of both the stand & rider at the next hard left hander .


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Originally Posted by DavidP
I wondered the same thing when it took me three tries to find a center stand which didn't go past the stops when deployed. It's not just the parts book, these were all the same part number.
"Oh, just weld up the stops on the frame." And, I should have to do this why?

I think it’s dreadful that 50 year old bikes need the old bit of TLC and fabrication. wink

The problem with welding the stops on the frame is it will fail again. It also won’t stop the stand from twisting.

If you have the engine out to do some welding, adding the strengthening sections as per the later triumphs also solves the centre stand issue. Mines set so the stand only just goes past vertical (if you look at a modern BMW, these stands are bang on vertical…. But I’m not quite that brave). It’s easy to get on and off stand (and in my garage I have to put it on stand from the right hand side so I don’t have the benefit of using the lever) and the back wheel is raised when the bike is on the stand. Take the front wheel out and the bike will rock onto the back wheel.


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68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

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BSA
Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
As I am fond of saying
What makes you think those 5 different side stands on your bikes now are what they left BSA with.
Very common for riders to forget to retract the stand to the detriment of both the stand & rider at the next hard left hander .
WM20,... As I am fond of replying, what makes you presume the stands are on bikes? All are unattached, and bear no signs of damage or torsion, even to the pivot flange .... just the common bit of wear at the foot-end. I only seek to find their part # or #s to correctly mate them with each project. Can anyone post a pic of a real #42-4778?

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AFAIK its the same as the stand fitted to 70s on Triumphs, plenty out there, heres an image from Burtons Bike Bits
https://burtonbikebits.net/images/cimg0552-web.jpg


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Thanks Gavin, I'll find some Triumph stands on this side of ocean for sure. I thought it was some differences between them. I have exactly the same stand on my Trident.

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The part number you seek is 67-4888; it's listed in the 1970 Master Price list as "Leg" at £2. All the ones I have here have the casting number 67-4889. There are slightly different lengths and curves among them and some are mangled beyond hope. I have a nice neat short one fitted to the Cyclone which doesn't allow the bike to lean over too far.

67-4888 was originally a plunger A10 part. Of course it could be that BSA used the same basic casting and gave the slightly longer A65 version a different part number, does anyone know what 68-4757 looks like? They did this with the 66/67 Victor brake pedal which has the same casting number as the Gold Star Scrambles pedal.but is shorter.

Last edited by VicCyclone; 06/10/21 8:14 pm.

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1966 Victor GP
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The triumph part no is 83 -1560 , from BBB advert, "BSA A65/
Triumph T100 Daytona 1970-74 /TR6 Trophy/T120 Bonneville 1970-74 / TR7 Tiger/T140 Bonneville 1973-79 & T150 Trident 1970-74"

Grins. my usual go to place for T bits in the UK has the very thing listed under 83-1560 for 67 quid.

later ts got a similar but shorter stand with an extra peg to help use it.


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Vic,......Thou hast found the Grail! ...for me, anyway. Your propstand with the casting # 67-4889 is the same as one of mine that I suspected was the correct long-used variant for most BSA twins 'til `71. Thanks lad. I'd still like to see an actual 42-4778 that mirrors the parts cat graphic. Whew!...I hope this thread wasn't too tedious - - love dem' academics.

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