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#849092 05/16/21 10:20 pm
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So, out of laziness I gave my front wheel to a "tyre expert" to fit the new boot.
Muppet well and truly screwed it up, did not seat it properly, trapped the innertube and damaged the rim tape. Bloody thing nearly came off the rim and the rim tape shredded and came out. Don't know what state the tyre is in.
I have a spare tyre (the old one), and a spare innertube. what I dont have is a new rim tape.
For me, getting a new rim tape is a 3 to 4 week process. (one of the joys of living on a rock in the sun).

Is there anything intrinsically wrong with bodging it and using duct tape or Gaff tape?

My guess is I will need a new tyre as well, the bead is ugly, so I can get a new tape then, so it would only be temporary.

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Dave Martin #849097 05/16/21 11:42 pm
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that will work. I've use electrician's tape with good success

Dave Martin #849114 05/17/21 6:55 am
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If you decide to fit it yourself, get some proper tyre soap and lather the tube and the tyre in the stuff. If it’s nice and slippy the tube won’t get trapped and everything should slip into place nicely. The tyre soap dries out by the time it’s all pumped up and fitted back on the bike.


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67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
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Allan G #849115 05/17/21 7:06 am
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Originally Posted by Allan G
If you decide to fit it yourself, get some proper tyre soap and lather the tube and the tyre in the stuff. If it’s nice and slippy the tube won’t get trapped and everything should slip into place nicely. The tyre soap dries out by the time it’s all pumped up and fitted back on the bike.

Very good advice and also put a bit of pressure in the inner tube before you lever the tyre home. It's very easy to nip the tube with the tyre levers if you don't do this.

Dave Martin #849123 05/17/21 12:24 pm
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If you use duct tape. Be careful to not use to much. More than one wrap....is to much IMO. I had used it for years but had heard it “can” cut a tube.

Well fast forward a few decades and I’m on the Blue Ridge Parkway on my Norton Commando. Rear tire starts loosing air fast. Picked up a nail? Nope......I had used duct tape in place of a rim strip and in American fashion I went with “ more has to be better”. Probably had three or four wraps around the rim. If you run your finger along the edge of 4 layers of duct tape you’ll notice the edge is pronounced and fairly sharp. It had cut a 2” slice in the tube. After all those years of not having a problem......what I had been told years ago came true. Rim strips are CHEAP.......spend the money on them and save a dime on something else. Just my opinion ( and real life experience). Worth exactly what you paid for it.

All that said....I think a single wrap of it is probably enough and I don’t think that edge would ever cause a problem.......but after I experienced what it can do I don’t use it any more.

PS: I would split the duct tape just wide enough so it fit into the well.

Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 05/17/21 12:57 pm.

Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........as Lannis says “Gordon is either all in or all out.....there’s no in between”
Dave Martin #849124 05/17/21 12:29 pm
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Good and earned advice Gordon.
I tried rim tape on some ductwork and it failed. laugh


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Hugh Jörgen #849125 05/17/21 12:31 pm
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Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
Good and earned advice Gordon.
I tried rim tape on some ductwork and it failed. laugh

There’s a LOT of wisdom right there.

Gordon


Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........as Lannis says “Gordon is either all in or all out.....there’s no in between”
Dave Martin #849126 05/17/21 12:33 pm
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Quote
If you decide to fit it yourself, get some proper tyre soap and lather the tube and the tyre in the stuff.
I have come to like using Talc (baby powder) on the tube and a rubber lube, like P-80, on the bead of the tire. Pre-inflate tube with just enough air so it will still fold in half by its own weight.

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Dave Martin #849127 05/17/21 12:40 pm
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I agree--just a bit of pressure in the inner tube and then use talc powder--on the inner tube and the tire.
Been doing it that way for 60 years without a pinched tube.
And no water in the rim to turn it rusty!
HTH

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Dave Martin #849135 05/17/21 2:09 pm
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Wouldn’t you get water in there when you have been riding in the rain or riding through any standing water?

I worked as a mechanic for a few years, as well as servicing and repairs we did tyres for bikes, cars, tractors... anything type of tyre that went on a run/hub.

Never nipped a tube once I started using the tyre soap method... but you use what you have to hand. I use tyre soap even since I changed career, I don’t have talc powder around the home.


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Allan G #849142 05/17/21 2:52 pm
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Allan my friend. There were tubes that came new with talc on them. Not sure if any still do. I’m thinking they’re talking about a light dusting......not enough to make biscuits out of. 😊

Dish soap is another product I hear people using......betcha they don’t realize some dish soaps have salts in them.

I’m the kind of fellow that when people like Mr Healy and Tridentman speaks....I listen. Mr Healy mentioned P-80 years ago on this board. It’s an amazing product. Once I used it I was sold and make sure I keep some in the shop. I never thought about using it on a stubborn tire bead.

Gordon.

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 05/17/21 3:47 pm.

Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........as Lannis says “Gordon is either all in or all out.....there’s no in between”
Dave Martin #849146 05/17/21 3:21 pm
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Do not use duct tape as a rim tape if you will be riding in high temperatures with a heavy load. My wife and I crossed Utah in July on a MSS Velocette with lots of luggage. Experienced numerous flats due to duct tape cuts. Got to where we could replace a tube in under 15 minutes but not fun in a hot desert with no shade available.


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slow learner #849148 05/17/21 3:39 pm
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Originally Posted by slow learner
Do not use duct tape as a rim tape if you will be riding in high temperatures with a heavy load. My wife and I crossed Utah in July on a MSS Velocette with lots of luggage. Experienced numerous flats due to duct tape cuts. Got to where we could replace a tube in under 15 minutes but not fun in a hot desert with no shade available.

And my bet is.......they were actual cuts....running parallel with the rim on the inside of the tube. Absolutely no other way it could have happened except for the exposed sides/edges of the duct tape. I never believed it until it happened to me.

Gordon


Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........as Lannis says “Gordon is either all in or all out.....there’s no in between”
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Dave Martin #849154 05/17/21 5:11 pm
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Thanks for all the input.
Interesting about duct tape cutting the innertube. I think I will try electrical tape, seems a safer bet. Will only be temporary anyway.

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Dave Martin #849155 05/17/21 5:17 pm
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Worth remembering that rim tapes are made of rubber and are pretty cheap.
I keep 2 or 3 18" rim tapes in stock because it is frustrating if you need one and have to wait for it.
18" tapes will stretch OK to 19", 20" and 21" rims.
HTH

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Dave Martin #849159 05/17/21 6:36 pm
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Sure learned my lesson Tridentman. smile

Dave, it's just my opinion but I think in the short term you could use any tape.....but don't layer it up. I'm pretty sure my problem was caused by the duct tape being at least 3 complete wraps. Not sure what my mindset was for doing that but I'm going to blame it on my desert racing days and a misspent youth. I think one wrap of electrical tape will do.....might be messy removing it later but so is the duct tape if left on long enough.

Gordon

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Last edited by Gordon Gray; 05/17/21 7:58 pm.

Gordon Gray in NC, USA.........as Lannis says “Gordon is either all in or all out.....there’s no in between”
Dave Martin #849169 05/17/21 9:08 pm
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I don’t have talc powder around the home.
Count your blessings!

last time I checked they sold baby powder at Tesco.

Now having had a few experiences with my lack of understanding of how the English use nouns like bonnet, mudguard, paraffin but the one that really caught me out was "cot".

Once (and only once, as sometimes I am a fast learner), I booked a room at a UK hotel. It was for three full sized American lads. You know 6 foot plus and a "svelte" 17 stone. Asked if they could put a cot in the room for the third lad. When we checked in we were curious why the lassy sorting out our keys, was acting a bit odd. She had a hard time containing her giggles. It all became clear when we entered the room to find a "cot".

Now is talc, perfumed and then called baby powder or do you have another moniker for baby powder?

Have seen people use Duct Tape. Can't say I ever heard of a problem. But I can see it might cause a problem with a slightly underinflated tube.

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Dave Martin #849170 05/17/21 9:16 pm
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I remember when living in UK I ran out of talc powder and went into a chemist (US: drugstore) to get some more.
I asked the assistant for the biggest cheapest container of talc powder that they had and I didn't care what perfume it smelt of.
I got a very strange look in return!---she obviously thought that I was going to use it in some sort of perverted ceremony----which in a way I guess I was!

Water doesn't normally find its way onto the inside of the rim to rust it.
Think about it--you have the inner tube pressed hard against the inside of the rim and the tire bead is forced against the rim lip.
Rusting is IMHO caused by the use of aqueous solutions to get the tire bead to move into the correct position in the rim on fitment.
Just my two cents worth of course.

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Dave Martin #849171 05/17/21 9:27 pm
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John-- the UK usage is that the perfumed talc powder is called "talc powder" whereas the nominally unperfumed talc used on babies posteriors is called ":baby powder".

I laughed with your description of the use of the word "cot".

In the reverse direction I was working as a young development engineer in UK in the automotive industry.
We were doing a project with a US company based in Detroit.
I visited the US company to discuss the project.
This was in the days before CAD etc and about 8 of us were gathered around a large horizontal drawing board discussing the drawing on the board.
I suggested a mod to the component and said " I will show you what I mean---we need to remove this line and move it across. Has anyone got a rubber?"
There was stunned silence and then a big fat guy from the south of US said in a drawl" What the hell do you need a rubber for at a time like this?"
We had a few laughs and a few beers about that one that evening!

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Dave Martin #849202 05/18/21 5:33 am
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The only baby powder I have lives in the shop for the one purpose of powdering up tubes. I don't know where one gets P-80, but NAPA sells a big jug of a product called RuGlide for a reasonable price. It really helps the levers slip on the rim while mounting a tire. laughing
I have used duct tape for a rim strip in an emergency. It was a lot of trouble to remove the tape PO used on a few occasions. It is a lot simpler to cut through if you use rim locks.
However, I always order a new rubber rim strip when I order the tire and tube.


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Dave Martin #849212 05/18/21 8:17 am
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you can make rim tapes from old inner tubes.


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Tridentman #849219 05/18/21 10:07 am
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Hi Richard,
Originally Posted by Tridentman
Has anyone got a rubber?
Yep, been there, done that ... laughing On a course to learn a computer language called "Mark IV", asked the Swedish guy sitting next to me if I could borrow his rubber ...

A.N. Other site, the Canadian owners have a list of "hate speech" words, converted to asterisks before posting. Can't post FAG when talking about bearings ...

Regards,

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Dave Martin #849221 05/18/21 11:03 am
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I use P-80 when mounting tires. Bought a case of bottles of it years ago. Kept a couple of bottles and supplied others on the forum with the rest of it.


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Dave Martin #849240 05/18/21 3:43 pm
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I bought a bottle of P-80 from Gary and it is good stuff


When given the choice between two evils I picked the one I haven't tried before
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Dave Martin #849320 05/19/21 11:09 am
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For mounting tires, I use baby powder inside the tire before inserting the slightly inflated tube, and ArmorAll as a lubricant on the tire bead. Don't know how it affects overall life of the rubber. I lay the wheel on a piece of plywood on the floor, and I find I have to use my knees to help hold down the tire as I work around the rim with the tire irons making sure the tube is out of the way with each new pinch. The last couple of pinches are the most likely to nick the tube. Don't know what I'd do if my knees were bad!

For my land speed racers, fitting tires on tubeless tire rims are So Much Easier and no chance of pinching a tube. And with the ArmorAll, they just about mount themselves. We just don't want to even think about the what-if's that can happen with a tube at 150 mph.

I have also noted that most new tubes today just do not maintain their air pressure like the old tubes did. Are there some tubes that do hold their air?

Tom

Last edited by koncretekid; 05/19/21 11:12 am.

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