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Moto Mojo
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Howdy guys.

So I just bought this bike, as you may be aware since I've posted about it here & in the R&T. I have some questions tho. For one thing the frame has tabs on the right & left side- 2 on the right & one on the left. I 1st saw the R side tabs and thought maybe it was for side car attachment points? But then noticed the single tab on the left.

[Linked Image from ricochetridersmotomojo.zenfolio.com]

[Linked Image from ricochetridersmotomojo.zenfolio.com]

Also, the fuel lines going to the carb are scrambled somewhat. I questioned this in my original thread and it was suggested perhaps they were done in such a way to accommodate the in-line fuel filters. Fair enough but how would the lines have been run from the factory?

[Linked Image from ricochetridersmotomojo.zenfolio.com]

[Linked Image from ricochetridersmotomojo.zenfolio.com]

Can anyone point me to a photo or diagram of the factory set-up please?

Would the filters be 100% necessary? I understand they could indeed be helpful.

Also this bike is very original.... but the current petcocks leak horribly. I know the cork could "swell" and oppose leakage but what's the harm in replacing them with better petcocks?

OK last question. I know (or have been told) the bike has a Boyer installed. If everything is working alright, is there any sense eliminating the zener diode and stator and installing modern replacement equipment?

Another note of interest, my bike also apparently has a new wiring harness- new that is, circa 2008-ish, under the ownership of the person I bought the bike from.

Let it be known (for anyone who doesn't already know me) that I'm not a purist level "rivet counter" type. Is it possible to celebrate a bike for being pretty darn original while simultaneously making smart changes and upgrades? I believe it is, so not sure why I even ask... laughing
MAYBE, as a "new" BSA owner, I'm not actively trying to p1ss the entire community off. Yet. wink

[Linked Image from ricochetridersmotomojo.zenfolio.com]

EDIT: you may note zip ties and varying errant cable routing in my pix. The goal is to button everything up and have things close to the way they should be or at least much cleaner than current.

Thanks guys!

Last edited by ricochetrider; 04/15/21 6:51 pm.

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I suspect someone added those tabs to mount saddle bags. From what I remember, the wiring was held in place by aluminum straps painted black.

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Can't help you with frame tabs, fuel lines could be moved around, depends how you set your banjo on the top of the carb and they should be black rubber type, these translucent plastic lines are junk, get hard after a season. You could use different fuel taps, but they need adapters ( different thread in a BSA tanks ) and with adapters space between them and a cylinder head could be a problem. Original Evart taps are good and don't leak with good cork inserts. It's only problem with good cork inserts, from my experience its easier to buy them complete with plungers instead of cork inserts alone usually made from substandard cork and impossible to install.
If you have a Boyer installed, its more convenient to install a solid state regulator / rectifier instead of original separate rectifier and Zener diode, because its more difficult to buy a good Zener and they are expensive. I'd switch to 3 phase stator and use cheap 3 phase regulator / rectifier used in modern bikes, not to have to think about lack of electricity, but your situation may be different.
Monoblock , if in good shape should give your bike better performance than Concentric what I can experience with my friend's TR6 during our rides.

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[Linked Image][Linked Image]Those tabs are on every 66 Tbolt I've seen. The hose from right would route behind carb and left along side of carb to fuel inlet. Company's make replacement valves for petcocks with orings instead of cork.


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Probably for high pipe mounting (on other models)...?

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Originally Posted by ricochetrider
OK last question. I know (or have been told) the bike has a Boyer installed. If everything is working alright, is there any sense eliminating the zener diode and stator and installing modern replacement equipment?
'66, so what's that have, an RM19? With lights on at all times it might be a problem on short trips?
My Trident is the only bike I have with the original rectifier and Zener system, but it works. I put a Tympanium on the Bonnie, but it came to me with no rectifier or regulator.
My A65 had trouble charging on short rides, so I found a 3-phase and upgraded. If the system on the Trident ever gives trouble I'll probably do the same for it.
In my experience the rectifier goes bad before the Zener. I've replaced a lot of rectifiers, never a Zener. You can replace the rectifier with a modern SS unit, nobody will notice as it lives under the seat.
Whatever you decide, hide the new stuff under the seat, just keep that cool looking heat sink. laugh


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Lower tab on right would have been for the rod type brake for the pre 65 models. The upper tabs were high level pipe exhaust mounts. Without seeing the number stamping it’s hard to tell but it’s possible one of the utility frames. They would make frames which covered several years, so if you had an accident and boogered the frame, your bsa dealer could fit a new frame abs restamp the numbers. (Often frames didn’t get stamped)


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"Let it be known (for anyone who doesn't already know me) that I'm not a purist level "rivet counter" type. Is it possible to celebrate a bike for being pretty darn original while simultaneously making smart changes and upgrades? I believe it is, so not sure why I even ask... laughing"

Rivet counting is fine for trailer queens, but if the bike is to be a reliable runner, upgrades, especially in the electrics, are essential, IMO.

Breaker point ignition is much more forgiving of low voltage levels than electronic ignition. IOW, electronic ignition requires a healthy charging system. To that end, it's advisable to upgrade the rectifier or the rectifier AND zener diode with a rectifier/regulator unit (Tympanium, Podtronics, Boyer, Sparx, etc.). Upgrading the alternator is a nicety but perhaps not absolutely necessary, depending on how and where you ride.

Another matter of opinion, I don't think inline fuel filters are necessary. The petcocks have screen filters inside the tank. Adapters were touched upon above. Most aftermarket petcocks, i.e., ones that work and don't leak, are 1/4" (i.d.), but the holes in the fuel tank are for 3/8" petcocks. Adapters are available to bring the hole diameter down to a more standard size.

Another alternative to fuel line is regularol' automotive fuel hose. Inexpensive by the foot in most automotive supply outlets. I don't know the fuel line routing on a Tbolt with Monobloc carb. If a double-spigot fuel banjo will work on the Monobloc, I would think that's the way to go.


Mark Z

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A 66 single carb would have two horizontal fuel lines from the taps , united with a T piece, then a short single line to a single banjo.
Clean out the tank and get rid of the in line filters.


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Thanks guys. Sounds like the solid state electronics units are the way to go, AND as I tend to sometimes ride at night, maybe the 3 phase upgrade makes sense.

Granted, I don't ride at night as often as I used to do- but the occasional night ride is in the cards for sure. Whether I am actually out at night, or just coming home after dark, the lighting needs to be absolutely reliable and efficient.

Cheers.
Tom


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FWIW, my 66 spitfire has the same frame tabs. purpose - don't have a clue.

Last edited by joe czech; 04/16/21 12:03 pm.
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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
A 66 single carb would have two horizontal fuel lines from the taps , united with a T piece, then a short single line to a single banjo.
Clean out the tank and get rid of the in line filters.

AH.

The fuel taps would be close to exactly 90 degrees to the tank, so they can be turned on easily? Each line coming off the taps would be short, and the "T" would be over the head with the single feed line then running close to centerline- straight back to the single banjo at the carb?

Seems nice & clean, if how I imagine this set-up is correct.

Thanks!

**********************************************************************************************************************************
**********************************************************************************************************************************

Originally Posted by joe czech
FWIW, my 66 spitfire has the same frame tabs. purpose - don't have a clue.

@AllanG explained it rather clearly, see quote:

Originally Posted by Allan G
Lower tab on right would have been for the rod type brake for the pre 65 models. The upper tabs were high level pipe exhaust mounts. Without seeing the number stamping it’s hard to tell but it’s possible one of the utility frames. They would make frames which covered several years, so if you had an accident and boogered the frame, your bsa dealer could fit a new frame abs restamp the numbers. (Often frames didn’t get stamped)

Last edited by ricochetrider; 04/16/21 12:25 pm.

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Like Allan says, the upper tabs were on most frames in that era for the Cyclone/Hornet/Wasp version high pipes. You do see the lower tab on some frames for the rear brake rod, but not others.

Tom - IMO.....use modern charge control, I happen to like the Podtronics, others have their preference. With a little creativity, you can hide it yet still have some air movement around it.

This is an opinion that may get some panties in a bunch...when you update to the modern charge control, convert to negative ground. I find it is easier on a fading memory banks and it allows you to run common LED bulbs for the rear tail light in particular. An LED in the rear gives you a small amount of extra power to the headlight. I still run a standard stator on my bikes, have never had an issue at night. But then I am not running anything extra.

Also, with some careful work, you can add "harness grounds" to the bike to allow the headlight, tail light, and engine to tie into the battery ground connection and not rely on the frame for a ground. Harness grounds are more efficient.

Last edited by Rich B; 04/16/21 12:28 pm.

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I looked through Bacons resto book for 66 images, it looks like the taps operate at 90 degrees to the bike long axis, ie push / pull in / out towards centre line., this will make access to the fuel pipe unions a bit fiddly but looks V neat. The 66 single carb is enshrouded by the side panels, so a central single fuel line makes sense. Your pics show a later type of side panels which do not fully enclose the carb

Last edited by gavin eisler; 04/16/21 12:31 pm.

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Here is pics of fuel line and part number. Think it shows orientation. Makes sense to me anyway.[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]


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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
. Your pics show a later type of side panels which do not fully enclose the carb

I’m pretty sure the 66 was the last of the winged badged side panels, so possibly the first or second year of the smaller panel? I know the Lightning rocket models of 64 had the over sized star and rocket type side covers.

IMO they didn’t get the size of these right until the OIF models.


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Interesting , the connection to the banjo in the picture above shows a threaded coupling, havnt seen one of those myself. it may be artistic license or a short lived item, it would be easy to wring the neck of a banjo with a seized thread.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 04/16/21 9:26 pm.

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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
Interesting , the connection to the banjo in the picture above shows a threaded coupling, havnt seen one of those myself. it may be artistic license or a short lived item, it would be easy to wring the neck of a banjo with a seized thread.
I thick that's a poor pic of the nylon fitting that gauze filter fits in and bolt goes thru to hold on carb. Like one in this pic only would have angled connector.[Linked Image]


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Originally Posted by Allan G
Originally Posted by gavin eisler
. Your pics show a later type of side panels which do not fully enclose the carb

I’m pretty sure the 66 was the last of the winged badged side panels, so possibly the first or second year of the smaller panel? I know the Lightning rocket models of 64 had the over sized star and rocket type side covers.

IMO they didn’t get the size of these right until the OIF models.

Bongo (RIP) and I believed there were 2 different fiberglass covers in late 64 into the 65 model year dual carb bikes. Early dual carb road bikes had large steel covers notched to clear the dual air cleaners. Then a short lived set of somewhat more bulbous fiberglass covers in the general shape of the more common fiberglass cover. And finally the more common slimmer style cover that largely ran to the end of the dual carb dry frame bikes.

The late 65 cover was carried over into 66, then a slightly modified version that ran to 70.


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Originally Posted by Rich B
Originally Posted by Allan G
Originally Posted by gavin eisler
. Your pics show a later type of side panels which do not fully enclose the carb

I’m pretty sure the 66 was the last of the winged badged side panels, so possibly the first or second year of the smaller panel? I know the Lightning rocket models of 64 had the over sized star and rocket type side covers.

IMO they didn’t get the size of these right until the OIF models.

Bongo (RIP) and I believed there were 2 different fiberglass covers in late 64 into the 65 model year dual carb bikes. Early dual carb road bikes had large steel covers notched to clear the dual air cleaners. Then a short lived set of somewhat more bulbous fiberglass covers in the general shape of the more common fiberglass cover. And finally the more common slimmer style cover that largely ran to the end of the dual carb dry frame bikes.

The late 65 cover was carried over into 66, then a slightly modified version that ran to 70.
My 65 LR has the slightly larger version of fiberglass covers. Looked like mine from my 66 but are def different. My 65 LR is an early model.


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I think the side covers are right for this machine.

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My charging system on my "65" Rocket was kinda flakey until I ran ground wires from everything back to the bolt where the battery is grounded to the
frame. It's been really reliable since. It's still all + ground.

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Hey Tom, when you decide what upgrade(s) you want to do, if you want to save yourself a little cash, I can head up there to help you do the work or you can bring it down here for a day or two. I've got everything needed to take the bike apart and put it back together in a nice, dry garage and a very comfortable bed in the guest room for a multi-day event.


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Hi JD, wow man thanks for the generous offer. It'd be good fun to hang out with you under any circumstances- let alone working on my bike!

For now I've arranged to take the bike up to Hugh Mackie in NYC, and Ill let those guys get it running. BUT can we think about doing some other work to the bike?

I'm forming a "to do" list, but much of this isn't essential to getting the bike running & ridable. ^th Street Specials can get it running for me and we can focus on updates and improvements?

I'll give you a shout soon and we can go over schedules etc.


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To address some of this other stuff...

I've looked a t he side covers- mine are indeed different than the ones showing in a brochure Andy Lorenz sent me, so I was wondering about them. Mine almost look as tho they were repainted at some point- but no time lately. If they were repainted it was along while ago- that said, it's really hard to tell for sure. I was wondering if there might have been an export vs home market difference?

The fuel line routing, as shown above, looks interesting! I wonder why instead of a short, direct run, they'd lengthen the lines and curve them back around to the T?

I THINK the "plan" for now is to get the bike running and not go much further with it.

The seller told me the primary chain needs to be tightened.
Carb cleaned or rebuilt.
Fuel lines restored to decent tubing and re-routed as close to original as possible, check fuel taps for functionality/leakage etc
Flush all oils and fluids, add new
Speedo cable
Tighten up, clean up cable routing, lube cables.
Inspect final drive chain?
Adjust front brake lever at hub to optimize braking (per Rich B)
Take a look at the clutch functions/plates etc - lever is tough tp pull in?
Meter electrical functions to make sure everything's working as it should.

Not sure it's essential immediately but I could see a benefit of having new cables from battery to coils, new spark plug leads.
Unsure how new/old the battery is but that's easy peasy.


Additional work would be to address electrical system changes (Podtronics, grounding, LED/lighting)
Upgrade to 3 phase? New alternator? Coils?

Caswell coating in tank?
Headlight upgrade?

The bike has basically "new" tires on it. That is to say the tires were put on probably years ago but they LOOK brand new. No cracking no wear. Against the advice of a few, I plan to leave these tires on at least for now. Tires can happen pretty much at any time. I'm getting response that range approximately 50/50 on change them/leave them. I hope to get this summer out fo them and I'll change tires over next winter. Unless somehow "new" tires fall into my lap OR I hit the lotto.

Open to any & all suggestions.

Thanks to al for your input!
Cheers.
Tom


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