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NickL #843674 03/21/21 7:54 am
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For a small country we had some amazing choice The old Silverstone, Oulton and Brands full circuit were my favourites. I found Cadwell a bit tight, you had to get it just right or be on the grass, I was chatting with Derek Brindley yesterday and he mentioned that Chris Vincent had a 500 bsa outfit, I didn't realise that, did you ever see it Nick?

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NickL #843731 03/21/21 11:13 pm
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Which one?????
He won the TT on an A 7 powered outfit. All 16in wheels.
I never saw a CV A50 powered outfit but he must have used one at some time.
I think i'm a few years younger than you two but i remember my brother in races against Chris Vincent
several times in the late 60's early 70's CV was on A65's and the Fath. Brands, Crystal Palace, Thruxton
Great choice of circuits back then, a lot are closed now or hardly ever used. Like here, there was a great track
here 'Lakeside' they built a bloody housing estate up the road and it's all but closed now something like an 80db
sound limit...... all corruption in council and parliament allow it to happen. They are all on the take.

NickL #843732 03/21/21 11:22 pm
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One of my enduring memories of Mallory was the Race of the Year when John Cooper (the local hero) on the triple beat Ago on his GP MV.
Must have been about 50,000 people there that day and everyone went totally wild.
Good memories!

NickL #843734 03/21/21 11:36 pm
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Mark, I thought i would drop the balance factor down as it's a longer stroke rather
than big bore but as the pistons are quite heavy i didn't want to go too far with it.
I am sure the cam will improve matters as the previous one was way to hairy for
a lower revving motor. It was better with wide tappet settings which is a bit of a
'giveaway' but it hammered like a machine gun when setup that way. As i said
the old cam suited the 650 quite well but Matt tends to ride that like it's a 2-stroke.
I'm afraid it he did that with that old A10 crank, he may be coming home with the
engine in a bucket.

I think the factory may had done a 90 as a 3 piece like Norton as it's a much easier
way of doing the crank and cheaper to forge. Stroke changes on a 3 piece are more
easily accommodated too.

NickL #843756 03/22/21 8:46 am
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That must be the one Nick, He didn't say A7 or A50 But did mention the TT. Seems like they couldn't get the A50 to work as well as the A65, any stand out reason for that you can think of? They have tried to buy and sell Mallory on several occasions to developers. plus the Noise brigade, you get a moneyed person move into a 50 house village that is encircled by a racetrack and complain about the noise! you couldn't make it up.

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Yep, saw that one too. A fantastic spectacle indeed. Apart from the sounds of the exotic foreign machines, the one that should strike a cord for you is the first Transatlantic race's, when all i think 12 where one Bsa or Triumph 3's on open pipes, All 12 in a bunch coming out of Gerrads Nailing the throttle open was a Glorious Sound!

NickL #843773 03/22/21 3:18 pm
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Yes--remember that well---IMHO nothing to beat the sound of a triple on full chat.
Even a road triple comes noticeably on the cam at about 4500 rpm.
Turns me into a real hooligan for a few seconds/minutes!
Makes me forget I am 75 and the Transatlantic Races were 50 years ago.

NickL #843844 03/23/21 4:33 am
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The big triples ruled the crmc sidecar class in the 90's, they were getting them out to 970cc
by stroking them as well as boring. A few were very fast but out of our league cost wise.
Then a few guys with imp's would beat them and of course Mr Digby on his big beezer a65.
There was also a very quick Saab 750/850 running, that was a lovely outfit, a Lynx frame,
beautifully made like most of their stuff. Ahh happy days even if we never won i always
reckoned a 4th or 5th against some of those blokes was well worth the ride. Given that my
old crate was 25+ years old then.

NickL #844911 04/02/21 7:16 am
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Nick, I have never quite understood the CRMC, 'they' want to reproduce 'of the period' racing, but allow not 'of the period' engines and modifications - like the oversize triples you detail.
I remember in the 80s having a conversation with 'an official' and when asked about thoughts I said overwhelmingly officious and overbearing, he was surprised at my statements! - only changed later when Ian Johnson (spelling!) became involved, more relaxed and friendly with common sense, better grids. Apparently has now gone back to the way it was - pot hunters throwing money at machinery.

PEH, Cadwell is fun because it is so narrow - it demands 'focus'. I remember Dave Hallam on his TZ750 outfit failing to turn right at park corner, the front hub ended up buried in the gearbox.

Oulton Park events are now limited due to newcomers and noise limits. The government refuses to grant 'grandfather rights' to circuits every time they are asked.

Chris Vincent's TT outfit was initially an A7 based engine, he later moved on to BMW engines to go faster. For mainland Open class events he used an A65 engine.

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NickL #844916 04/02/21 8:32 am
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The class i raced in was pre-72 with crmc
When i raced in the 70's i used to see and beat a lot of 750 weslakes
there were a couple of 850's about but quite rare and unreliable,
i never saw a successful trident motor in an outfit at club level then.
Likewise never a 900 weslake. That was in '76.
When i started with the crmc in the 90's most fast outfits were 900
Norrish motors or big triples, the imps and the Saab were eligible as
i remember a fair few of those being about. It was a bit potty really.
Mk2 amals, fully dyno'ed and tested motors available etc etc.
The club was a bit renowned for being the G50 and Manx club really.
It did get better but i just loved the racing, we used to do a few forgotten era
meetings with the modern stuff, they were great and used to love to see us.
Passengers were always asking to swing on my old crate.
They did get a bit shitty if we beat them in the wet though.
Over here it was all 1200cc honda 4's in the pre'72 class, i beat a lot of 'em but
the attrition rate with motors and gearboxes was huge plus i was getting older
and the good circuits are mostly 800+ miles away.
The last race but one in the uk i did was '99 at Brands, big meeting several clubs
i got a 6th i think. It's actually on utube i think, someone posted it.

NickL #845122 04/04/21 6:23 pm
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The beauty of being in
Blighty is much less miles to travel. And the pleasure of racing in rain.

PEH #845143 04/04/21 9:50 pm
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Originally Posted by PEH
... the pleasure of racing in rain.
Ho ho, oh yes, I well remember my very first race meeting as a competitor on the full circuit at Cadwell on an Easter Monday, nerves just starting while waiting in the collecting area ......and then it started to SNOW, what the...oh they are still going to let us all out on the circuit.......what, are they mad....
oh blimey everyone is going out and going fast, better do the same then, oh well here we go!!!
That started years of racing.

NickL #845244 04/05/21 11:14 pm
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At my last race at Snet it was sleeting. That place was cold in July!
The wind used to howl around that circuit. When it rained hard they
always sent the outfits out for practice first, to dry the track off.

NickL #845281 04/06/21 9:09 am
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Plum Pudding meeting on Boxing day Mallory Park , The track was white with Frost and ice. The organisers were determined to run the show, They sent a lorry out with 3 blokes spreading salt with shovels then they sent out 2 ambulances to compress the salt into the ice and break it up, Ending up with a track covered in salty slush, about 11 am they sent us out, I was on a brand new Spondon round tube alloy framed Rotax 640 Super Mono. My frame ended up looking like it had been covered in flour, The salt ate the frame, Utter madness, took me 3 days to get it right again, If sweary Bob had seen it he would have took off me, Suffice to say i never did that meeting again. Heavy Snow in the middle of may at a Donnington Park national, They said 15 mins to put your wets on lads, No cover, no Awning, just snow down the back of your leathers, then they sent us out!

NickL #845325 04/06/21 3:22 pm
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My recollection of Snetterton was that the icy east winds came blasting across all the way from Siberia.
Certainly felt that way!

PEH #845344 04/06/21 8:28 pm
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I never ever wanted to do the plum pudding meeting, just waaaayyy too cold to be fun on any level.
I was never interested in racing before late April/early May, the historic was just impossible to keep warm enough and the 'of the time' modern (TZ750) was a pig to keep at the right temperature.
Racing was serious, but still had to be fun and freezing bits off wasn't fun to me!

NickL #845356 04/06/21 11:02 pm
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Funny but i also moaned about sitting on the grid when it was 42 degs c as well..........................Talk about a difference.
At least we didn't push start in that heat though.

NickL #846015 04/13/21 8:23 pm
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Nice thing to moan about though Nick!!
My historic could not be bump started unless the engine was stinking hot, turn the motor off and it cooled down in a moment, even when the weather was hot.
This happened once at Snetterton - of all the places with its uphill start (held at the grid. engines off) and the sodding thing would not start and it was a stinking hot day.

NickL #846046 04/13/21 11:42 pm
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Bloody Snetterton!......i broke a clutch cable there once in practice so i did not
complete the required 5 laps to qualify. After some argy-bargy they said i could
start at the back of the grid...................... I couldn't even see the bloody start line,
and i almost had to turn left when we pushed off! With the tall gearing there, starts
were always harder anyway for us plebs with only 4 speeds.


BTW
A stinking hot day at Snetterton??????? I've never heard that before!

NickL #846206 04/15/21 7:19 pm
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Originally Posted by NickL
A stinking hot day at Snetterton??????? I've never heard that before!

Yes, honest early 1980s
For me it was either hot or soaking wet

The place was a bogy circuit for me, things only ever down that b***dy straight.
Historic -
Visit 1 Dropped a valve
Visit 2 Snapped a camfollower, which jammed against the rear cam and peeled it open
Visit 3 Snapped the crank timing side mainshaft (see visit 2)

Modern
Visit # Siezed on No.2 (when flat out) mad
Visit # Puncture
Visit # Siezed on No.3 (when flat out) mad

Happy daze (I think??)

NickL #846229 04/15/21 11:37 pm
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Sounds like some of my 'Happy Daze' too.

The silence in the van on the trip home eh?

NickL #846482 04/18/21 11:00 pm
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Just had a good weekend 5 wins from 6 races one 2nd place.
BUT.......the old 3rd gear syndrome is setting in .......bloody a65 'boxes!
Once the damn thing has jumped out of third once, it stuffs the dogs
and will only get worse. The mainshaft second sliding gear is the one that
gets stuffed and the ones that are hard to find, close ones anyway.

NickL #846498 04/19/21 3:24 am
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Is that a 23T Nick? I've had to weld the cam track to fully engage all the gears. You can only adjust the lay shaft to get one good not all without moving the selector with the track adjustment. My friend gave me a ball ended plunger that follows that selector cam and locks the gear, that's in Ben's and is the sweetest changing 4 speed ever.


mark
NickL #846502 04/19/21 7:04 am
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Who makes the ball plunger Mark? I was think about making a plunger with a 5mm roller
rather than the ball, but i would give that a try first.
Yes it's the 23t gear. The near unobtainium one!
By shunting both shafts in and out i have managed to get the full engagement
of the gears using the later better plate shimmed for side play etc. Even so, it
has still kicked third out on this one a few times. It may be the fact that he is using
an early timing cover with the early small shafted change quadrant, they changed
away from those after the first year i think. They were crap, even more so than the
later ones. Plus the spring arrangement is rubbish on the early setup.
I've told him to save his money and get a 5 speed, he is loosing out off the line to
others due to the tall first and no-one ever got those boxes to last in a sidecar.
CV told me he replaced most gears every meeting he did.
The box was designed for the triumph terrier and just made bigger over the years.

NickL #846509 04/19/21 10:16 am
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In '69, BSA changed the track in the shifter plate on the singles to more fully engage 3rd gear, at the expense of high gear. But they added a shim behind the mainshaft bearing to move the sleeve gear inward. I have on occasion added another shim on the sleeve gear to force the sleeve gear back towards the sliding gear, as there seems to be a bit more engagement to be had. Obviously, the shifter plate is hardened and it would be difficult to get it just right. Too bad nobody made new shift plates to achieve the same thing on the twins.
Tom


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