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demonfonzarelli
demonfonzarelli
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Yea, I hear ya Nick. I think your analogy is pretty accurate, at least at whatever RPM I'm running at 65-70+ MPH. At least that's what evidence suggest. I thought to, at least, check the plugs with some needle nose pliers, if easily turned, I will definitely have to address sooner rather than end of season.

For now I need to spend the next few days cleaning, polishing, and preparing for display at Fandango. I will decide whether to participate in the vintage bike rides on Sunday after I check on those plugs tomorrow. If those are supposed to be flush, then one of them is not far from falling out.

Thanks for explaining their purpose. Rather obvious once pointed out.

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The plugs are normally 1/8 bsp or similar and have no head on them, they just sit flush with the case.
If as suspected an allen bolt has been wound in, then you'll just have to try tightening them, it won't go
in flush. You will probably end up re-drilling/tapping the holes for a suitable plug maybe 1/8 npt. or 3/8 unf.

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Aren’t they a raper plug Nick? The ones in my oif are.

Weirdly I ordered some off Amazon, they weren’t deep enough and bottomed out before they tightened up. The ones from SRM were longer and dimensionally correct so I don’t know where they get them from???

It looks like Traceys plugs have been fitted with some PTFE tape also, or at least the uppermost one does. The correct plug with a thin smear of loctite thread seal on the threads won’t go a miss.

Tracey. With the oil tank, are you 100% it’s coming from the cap? The cap has a cork ring which can be picked out with a pick or a screw driver. And a new one popped in to place. However I’d also take the seat off, check that A, that oil isn’t coming out of the breather on the tank and B the triangular strap that’s welded to the tank hasn’t split along the welded seam as they are known to do this.

The little hole in the inner timing cover is a tell-tale hole, that’s supposed to be there. It lets you know that either the points oil seal is leaking or there is gearbox oil passing the kickstart shaft, or gearbox oil coming past the clutch actuating setup (push rod, etc) if it’s coming past the latter then there’s probably too much oil in there. Other wise is a seal for the idler gear or the bush for the kickstart quadrant is well worn.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

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Hi Tracy,
In the interest of research I looked through your previous posts. You have come a long way and stuck with it, well done.its been quite a ride.
I think you should forget about entering your bike in the show, there will be more shows in the future.
You appear to have two failed oil seals, the one behind the points and the one behind the engine sprocket, more importantly you need to properly seal the oil way drilling plugs. access to the plugs will mean removing exh pipes , motor mounts and jacking / lifting the motor to get access. The factory sealed these plugs with some sort of loctite originally, to get this to work the oil ways will need to be emptied and cleaned so the sealer goo has a chance of working. To replace the points seal the timing needs disturbed and the points AR mech, or EI rotor will have to be removed.To replace the crank drive side seal the whole primary side has to come off. At this point I would consider lifting the whole motor out so I could do the work on the bench.
All this is a fair bit of work, chin up , its only time and a little money. not something to be rushed because of a show.
if it was just the oil seals I would be happy leaving the motor in the frame, the oilway plugs are a different matter, Ive never attempted to fiddle with them with the motor in the frame, maybe jacking will be easier than complete removal. Certainly strip the primary with the motor in place, the rear brake and chain make removing the major nuts easier and anything you can do to lighten the lump will make life easier if you do decide to lift out the motor. hing in there.
PS Are you absolutely certain you have motor oil in the primary? ATF loses its red colour rapidly, is there definetly more oil in there than there should be?

Last edited by gavin eisler; 04/02/21 10:53 am.

71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
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Originally Posted by Allan G
Tracey. With the oil tank, are you 100% it’s coming from the cap? The cap has a cork ring which can be picked out with a pick or a screw driver. And a new one popped in to place. However I’d also take the seat off, check that A, that oil isn’t coming out of the breather on the tank and B the triangular strap that’s welded to the tank hasn’t split along the welded seam as they are known to do this.

Allan: Yes, oil was clearly coming out around the cap and running down. The outside of the tank was soaked, There was even some running down the side cover. And I can tell when tightening the cap there is little resistance that would provide a seal.

My cap is not quite as you describe. The gasket is neither cork nor rubberish. Rather it is some sort of fiber material much like gasket material, only thicker.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Since I have the later short dipstick, perhaps BSA changed the cap seal material?

Doesn't really matter, that's an easy fix.

The tank is another matter.
The triangular tab you mentioned did break off the tank. So the tank was rattling around. There is no evidence of crack or oil loss at the seam or out of the tank vent.

Eventually that tank will need to come out for repair. As a temporary repair I took a piece of oil line, sliced it open lengthwise, and with a little trimming formed a bumper around the edge of the tank. The tab broke with a bit of a lip, which hooked the rubber bumper. When tightened this configuration pulled the tank quite snugly against the frame rubbers. Seems better than banging around inside the frame.

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You need the proper cork gasket for the cap, its a lot wider than the one in you pic.

Here's the larger version for the petrol cap.

[Linked Image from picclickimg.com]

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Gavin:
Thank you for spending your time in research. It has been quite a ride, still is.... I've gone from a Honda CL70, to a'79 Bonnie, to a '74 Commando, to a 30 some odd year layoff to rear offspring. The last of which is self sufficient, and now I have this 51 year old BSA that I have completely disassembled and put back together thanks to this forum.

My intention, at some point, is to post pictures and a little history about the project, Until then I'm still sorting out the difference between running, and running well. I have a fair amount of mechanical aptitude, but no formal training. I have never rebuilt an engine. I took my time and sought help when needed, which was a LOT. Most of that help came from this forum. This project would not have come this far without the resources available here.
I made mistakes, it took three attempts at every major assembly to get it right. Which is probably why the crank seals are crap. I have learned a lot, obsessed about every detail, and been bitten by the bug. My next project on my bench is a 1979 Indian moped.

As for The Texas Fandango? Well show might be too strong, how about display. Since, I think, all of the AMCA events were cancelled last year. The Cherokee Chapter is Hosting Fandango, and has ask all members to get their bikes out of the garage, and put them on display. They want to assemble the largest collection of vintage/antique motorcycles in Texas. I didn't restore this bike to show. My plan was, and still is, to ride it. Cosmetically, it's period correct enough for John Q to admire. That and, where I am, the vintage category is dominated by Harley Davidson and Indian. So British style and all that chrome kinda stand out.

It's a huge swap meet, I have 3 Honda 305 Dreams, I'd like to find someone willing to show them some love. I'm keeping an eye out for a '69 or later T100R project donor. Not for restore but platform for a custom.

Attendance is expected to be high.
There's gonna be flat track races, vintage choppers, vintage bike rides, women too young wearing shorts too tight. Texas BBQ. Hell yea I'm goin'

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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
You appear to have two failed oil seals, the one behind the points and the one behind the engine sprocket, more importantly you need to properly seal the oil way drilling plugs. access to the plugs will mean removing exh pipes , motor mounts and jacking / lifting the motor to get access. The factory sealed these plugs with some sort of loctite originally, to get this to work the oil ways will need to be emptied and cleaned so the sealer goo has a chance of working. To replace the points seal the timing needs disturbed and the points AR mech, or EI rotor will have to be removed.To replace the crank drive side seal the whole primary side has to come off. At this point I would consider lifting the whole motor out so I could do the work on the bench......

PS Are you absolutely certain you have motor oil in the primary? ATF loses its red colour rapidly, is there definetly more oil in there than there should be?

Thank you Gavin, you have nicely summed up and confirmed what I've been mentally coming around to. It is what it is.
I'd like to see if I can get away with jacking the engine up in the frame. With the exhaust off the release valve can come out and make cleaning those ports easier. The reality of getting to the rear mounts may change that plan.

The amount of fluid in the primary was about right, I'm guessing. I'm calling it 40wt based on odor and feel. It doesn't feel or smell like ATF.

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Just wondering about the oil loss from the tank filler cap, maybe one explanation is that the tank is overfilled?

I'm not sure what the engine oil capacity is for a 69 A65, the workshop manuals for earlier bikes claim between 5 and 5 1/2 pints depending on which Manual you look at. This amount of oil seems excessive and more than what I put in my 68 firebird after an oil change even considering any remaining oil in the engine.

One quick fix for the filler cap sealing ring would be to remove the existing seal (which you have already done) and then fill the area in the filler cap with a thick layer of silicone and gently refit the old seal and let it dry. Hopefully, the old seal will then have sufficient thickness from the silicone backing to form a proper seal with the tank.

You can make your own filler cap seal using a sheet of fuel resistant cork/nitrile rubber, see This Link for a UK seller, I'm sure you can get it your side of the pond as well.


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Well..... It seems I'm going to have to make a parts list, timing and drive ol seals, larger drive sprocket, an oil tank cap gasket won't add much to the order.

Since the clutch basket will need to come out. I'm probably going to access and replace the final drive sprocket with one larger. Somewhere on the forum I've seen members recommend going from 27 to 28 teeth. All that from fuzzy memory, the numbers may be off. Regardless the underlying concept is to gear it up a bit to reduce RPM and vibration at highway speeds. Seems to have plenty of torque.

I can order up parts while I get my head in the right place for such a task. If I have the parts, and get busy, I ought to be able to knock all these corrections out in a day, perhaps a weekend. The riding season is early.

Minor setback. Interesting how one needs to thrash these old beast somewhat for such issues to surface. Removing the entire primary is a pain in the, but I can clean and inspect all the plates. The kick return spring is a pain in the... Oh well, I recon that's the price you pay. I can think of far worse problems an old neophyte bike builder might encounter.

Regarding overfilling: The A65 Service Manuel I've been using for reference list 5 pints. The dipstick has a 5H mark that is, according to the service sheet posted previously, supposed to apply to A65.
The only thing left is to drain the tank, measure out 5 pints, pour that in, and see where that shows on the dipstick. Of all my problems, that's the least and easiest to address.

I'd like to be able to close the thread in a few weeks with a report of a spirited ride without hemorrhaging ol all over God's creation.

Y'all take care, ride safe.

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Yo Tracy, the A65 can only take a 21 tooth gearbox sprocket as a max without difficulty, a stock 650 with std rear sprocket will not pull a 22 without running out of pech ,std, was either 19 or usually 20, sometimes lower for off road work or sidecar, if you have steep hills and twisties stay at 20, if you want to make progress on straight roads 21 might be better.i hesitate to say this , a 21 will give you more relaxed cruising at 65 but it will not pull through the wind at higher speeds. I just googled Oklahoma roads, lots of straight lines, fit a 21 with low bars.

A jubilee clip to hold the kickstart spring retaining washer while you wrestle the spring on takes some of the sting out,

The oil capacity is total, not the volume of the oil tank, its very diff to drain all the oil, i would fill with 4.5 pints then top up if needed after a run.

Check your oil tank breather is not plugged ,you have insects that like open ended pipes, oil froth neats space dont overfill, even with a bad cap seal you should not see much spew, I have made decent seals from thick leather at a push, grease it up with bacon fat.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
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