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#843048 03/15/21 11:15 pm
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Ragmanx Offline OP
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I burned out my Podtronics Reg/Rec. My fault, hooked up my battery Tender charger and forgot it was connected and burned out the rectifier.

It was a 200W single phase unit on a '68 A65L

Was about to order a new one from CBS when I saw another Podtronics 200 W, single phase that says I can eliminate the battery.
It is only $10 more.

Is anyone using this unit?

And does it work good?

Thank you,
SteveG

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Using the Boyer version, it’s basically like adding a capacitor but all built into the one box, you just disconnect the fuse to the battery and run the bike. The bike will perform just as if the battery was connected and working fine.

If you do fit one of these, I’d suggest fitting a fuse to it also. (Although in your case I’d do that even with the standard unit, then if you do start it again you should only pop the fuse)


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

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Thank you for your response.

I am running a Vape EI and the bike ran well before I burnt out the regulator so the new one should work well. I called CBS and they say they are recommend this Podtronic.

I will wire in the battery as before.and call it good.

If my battery goes out the capacitor will be used it restart the bike and get home.

The negative side of the battery is fused.

Is it still necessary to remove the fuse to the battery before restarting the bike?

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if the bike is wired correctly
no extra fuses are needed other than... the one fuse on the Negitive battery terminal .
( and pulling this fuse allows the bike to run off the capacitor )... within its limited capacity .

without a battery the bike needs no fuse .
the battey is the only dangerous power source ... the alternator is of such limited capacity
the a short circuit immediately drops voltage below ignition support and the engine stops .

the negjtive R/R output is added into the harness
right where the old original finned rectifier output
entered the harness ... ( which is not at the battery ) ...

i think the rectifier wire
was a brown with white stripe ... for a 68 A65
but where it is wired is more important than the wire color
colors change , but the wiring principal does not .

the R/R negitive output
enters the harness ... and maybe up to an ammeter , if there is one , before meeting
and changing color to (a blue/br wire ) and then to the one fuse located at the battery negitive .
( image shows wire color change at/through ammeter)
Brw/w connects to Blue/brw

..[Linked Image from cdn.shopify.com]

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I disagree quinten, a decent alternator has the ability to put out more than enough juice to power ignition and lighting at tick over with a cap of some form fitted. If I’m running the bike and a fault occurs in the wiring and happens to blow the battery fuse, normally the bike would die and you’d trouble shoot the issue, if there’s a cap fitted then it would run off the cap, until a) the fuse on the cap fails for the same reason, b) the fault then causes causes the cap to leak and fail.


You could put a single fuse between your grounding point or your live feed and then have the cap connected directly to the battery... this would work. But it also removes the advantage of having the cap (or a regulator rectifier unit with capacitance built in, the Boyer I mentioned was the Boyer power box, not the Boyer electronic ignition) so by the cap abs the battery having separate fuses, should you have an issue with the battery or lend your battery to a mate so he can continue his ride wink then you’d just disconnect the battery fuse (insulate the live lead if this isn’t the fused end and you’ve taken the battery off) and run the bike as normal.

The cap is like having a second battery, like the battery it will give a steady flow of DC power through the loom, and will remove all the peaks and troughs of voltage from the reg/rec which is ultimately what the battery is doing once it’s reached full charge. However unlike the battery, if you stopped the engine you’d be lucky if you got a toot from the horn. Any stored charge is lost very quickly once a circuit has been made.

But I’m no expert, I’d be interested to hear Stuart or NickL’s opinion to that?


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

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Quinten, just read your post again. I’m not sure if your aware that the OP is
Discussing the pod with the inbuilt cap, not just the standard reg/rec.

Cheers.

Al


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

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Simple explanation of adding a capacitor.
https://chselectricity.weebly.com/smoothing.html.
If like Allan your alternator setup is in good order, then the cap will allow
the engine to run on just the alternator output. If you wish to use a digital tacho
or electronic ignition it is also a good idea as any smoothing and spike suppressing
on the power supply is favourable for electronics.
A single fuse in the battery line will probably protect the bike's wiring but will not
protect the regulator if it's wired directly to the bike's supply. The alternator can
produce sufficient power to damage the rectifier/regulator, better to fuse that as
a separate entity. (In saying that,,,,,i haven't fused my ones separately............. bloody hypocrite eh??)

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I've learnt a bit about Rec/Reg. Thank you!

I think, in my case I will wire it up the same way since both are identical, except that the new one has a capacitor built in.

I'll still run a battery and if the battery fails. I should still get home with the capacitor.

My only question is- Should my battery fail, will I still disconnect the battery?

SteveG

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Originally Posted by Ragmanx
I've learnt a bit about Rec/Reg. Thank you!

I think, in my case I will wire it up the same way since both are identical, except that the new one has a capacitor built in.

I'll still run a battery and if the battery fails. I should still get home with the capacitor.

My only question is- Should my battery fail, will I still disconnect the battery?

SteveG

yes , disconnect the battery
because the failed battery should still be considered a competing or parasitic load
for the meager alternator output at lower RPMs .
you want and need all the power to go to the ignition when kicking over .

If the battery is only discharged and not failed ... it can be hooked back up as soon as the bike is running .
you may not even need to unhook a discharged battery ... the capacitor will help , somewhat with kickstart
even with a discharge battery ( you don't have to unhook anything till you need to unhook it )

how you wire the new R/R can make a difference in how easy it is to disable the battery
and still have the R/R with capacitor still in circuit .

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Thank you guys. Cleared up all my doubts.

Looks like the capacitor in the Podtronics reg. is a good feature.

Should receive the reg. on Saturday.

SteveG

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Hi Steve,

Sorry, late to the party. cool

Originally Posted by Ragmanx
I burned out my Podtronics Reg/Rec.
eek

Originally Posted by Ragmanx
200W single phase unit on a '68 A65L
Was about to order
when I saw another Podtronics 200 W, single phase that says I can eliminate the battery.
It is only $10 more
Originally Posted by Allan G
it’s basically like adding a capacitor but all built into the one box,
Ime, poor reasoning:-

. Capacitors have a limited life. When (not if) the capacitor you paid an extra ten bucks for (and ten bucks for a capacitor seems a lot) expires, you're going to throw away a fifty-buck reg./rec ...?

Originally Posted by Ragmanx
If my battery goes out the capacitor will be used it restart the bike and get home.
. Many, many things on these old heaps might stop you getting home. When the capacitor you paid an extra ten bucks for expires, it will take out the battery; far more likely than a modern AGM or gel battery "going out".

Ten bucks is better-spent towards breakdown insurance, that'd get you home if anything happened, including when the capacitor fails ...?

Originally Posted by Ragmanx
The negative side of the battery is fused.
Poor practice on 'positive ground' electrics.

If something metal touches the actual negative battery terminal and another part of the bike, a fuse in a wire connected to the negative battery terminal cannot prevent the short because the short is not through the fuse in that position. The wiring harness will be badly-damaged in only a few seconds, the bike itself shortly thereafter ... thumbsdown

'Positive ground' electrics, much better is to connect harness Red wires to one single Red wire, fuse in that single Red wire and only that single Red wire actually connected to the battery positive terminal. Then something metal touches the actual negative battery terminal and another part of the bike, only the fuse connected to battery positive will blow. thumbsup

As Quinten started to post, but you probably know already, the Podtronics Black wire is connected to the Brown/White wire that used to connect to the centre spade of the original rectifier. Brown/White also connects one ignition switch terminal and one Ammeter terminal (the other Ammeter terminal is connected by Brown/Blue to battery negative).

Podtronics fitting instructions about connecting the Red wire are confusing; thumbsdown to be clear, it should be connected to the battery positive terminal, nowhere else (because anywhere else is pointless).

Originally Posted by Allan G
I’d suggest fitting a fuse to it
Originally Posted by NickL
single fuse in the battery line
will not protect the regulator if it's wired directly to the bike's supply. The alternator can produce sufficient power to damage the rectifier/regulator, better to fuse that as a separate entity.
If you move the main/single fuse to the one-and-only (Red?) wire connected between the harness and the battery positive terminal, as I've written above, it protects more than any fuse in the Brown/Blue wire connected to the battery negative terminal.

The only thing neither of the above fuse positions protects is the reg./rec. itself. I concur with both Allan and Nick, the Pod should have a separate fuse in one of its DC wires, I suggest the Red one to battery positive.

Hth.

Regards,

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“Ime, poor reasoning:-
. Capacitors have a limited life. When (not if) the capacitor you paid an extra ten bucks for (and ten bucks for a capacitor seems a lot) expires, you're going to throw away a fifty-buck reg./rec ...?”

I think you are on shaky ground here Stuart. Of course all electronic, electrical and mechanical devices have a limited lifetime (MTBF).

I suspect you are thinking particularly of historical capacitors used in magnetos and traditional condensers. They were relatively short-lived, because of the materials available/used at the time.

However the capacitors available today offer much longer lifetimes, even electrolytics, which is what I guess is used in this application.
Such capacitors are common in PC’s and other electronics that continue to work for decades.

Perhaps NickL or someone else may enlighten, but these caps tend to last longer when they are used, rather than sitting idle in a flat discharged circuit for long periods.

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As far as i can see, they don't specify the capacitor material/type or value.
So, it's hard to say what sort of life you would get.
A typical electrolytic that i would pick would have a life of around 20,000hrs
That would include running at near maximum temperature (105C) for 50%
of it's working life. After that time the value would possibly deteriorate but
to be honest i've had the same old 6800uf cap on my t120 for around 20 years
that was one i'd had on the shelf for years as well. I can still start the bike
with just the cap and no battery. I've never measured it's value, it was one
out of an old power supply i had.
They do vary in quality and specification though.

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Thanks NickL, when you say 20,000hrs do you mean 2+ years or say 20+ years at 2.4 hrs per day? I suspect the latter but I know the bones are going to be picked. I don't imagine 105degC happening much in normal operation, so I suspect the cap will have a good chance of living well beyond that spec.
As you describe, your (presumably electrolytic) cap has lived for quite some time.

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Yes, the cap's life should be as you say, and yes this is an electrolytic cap.
The main thing to consider is the applicable ripple current, that governs the
cap's physical size so although you can get 10,00uf caps rated at 35 or 50v
that are very small, you really should use one's with a large ripple capacity
if you intent to run battery-less.
I would suspect a polymer or similar cap is what is embedded in those regulators
as they are small but i don't know for sure.

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Thanks NickL, food for thought.

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Holy Cow!

I don't mind saying that you guys are over my pay grade.

I read over the comments several and think I get the gist and am learning a lot.

Does this sound correct.

There 4 wires from reg. - 2 yellow, 1 black and 1 red.

1 yellow to each alternator lead

1 black to battery pos+ terminal

1 red to battery neg- terminal (this lead fused)

I think that is what the above comments indicate.

I don't intend to run the bike without a battery.

If some reason the battery quits I can un fuse the battery and run on the cap.

Sound about right?

RagmanX (SteveG)

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Normal colour code is;
Yellow =Alternator stator wires
Black = NEGATIVE - (put your fuse in here)
Red = POSITIVE + normally goes to frame

If the unit has a built in capacitor you cannot disconnect just the capacitor.
It will be in the circuit all the time. You won't notice it. (Until you want to start the bike with a flat battery)
Just connect the unit up and use it.

The above comments are related to fitting a separate capacitor, don't worry about them.

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OK, got it,
Thanx to one and all!
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Hi Nick, Steve,
Originally Posted by NickL
Normal colour code is;
Red = POSITIVE + normally goes to frame
Ime, no; connecting the Pod Red wire to the frame doesn't serve any useful purpose - there must then be another wire from the frame to battery +ve.

If electrical circuits are going to give problems, it's more often at connections, not in wires. Connecting the Pod Red wire to the frame and another wire to the frame to complete the Pod circuit to battery positive is two connections that don't serve any useful purpose. Hence I advise connecting the Pod Red wire directly to battery positive.

I'm sure the bike has other Red wires connected to the frame. But why would you depend on them for battery charging, and for charging the capacitor to run the ignition when the battery "goes out", when you don't have to?

Hth.

Regards,

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Hi Dave,
Originally Posted by koan58
Originally Posted by Stuart
Ime, poor reasoning:-

. Capacitors have a limited life. When (not if) the capacitor you paid an extra ten bucks for (and ten bucks for a capacitor seems a lot) expires, you're going to throw away a fifty-buck reg./rec ...?
I think you are on shaky ground here
Nope, you've missed my point:-
Originally Posted by Stuart
Many, many things on these old heaps might stop you getting home. When the capacitor you paid an extra ten bucks for expires, it will take out the battery; far more likely than a modern AGM or gel battery "going out".
... I've been riding for nearly fifty years and driving for nearly forty; I'd have to sit down and have a long think to remember all the vehicles I've ridden and driven, not just on nice smooth first-world tarmac roads. I've never experienced a battery "go out" suddenly, not ever, not even lead-'n'-liquid-acid batteries that spent their entire lives being shaken ridden or driven over unmade tracks. Afaicr, the shortest life I've ever had from a battery was four years from an original Lucas T160 battery - it was accidentally kicked over by the guy who made my first set of Goodridge hoses. Ime, failing batteries ordinarily give plenty of warning.

... Otoh, whichever way you want to theorise, afaict if I'd ever bothered with even a 21st century capacitor, if it failed suddenly, I'd have been stranded.

Originally Posted by koan58
these caps tend to last longer when they are used, rather than sitting idle in a flat discharged circuit for long periods.
Another factor Steve might want to consider, depending how often he plans to use his bike?

Hth.

Regards,

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I’d think any cap that you bought off the shelf would have been in a discharged state for a long period, however if kept in circuit with a battery (and if both are coupled on the same side of the key switch) The cap would be kept charged for a reasonable length of time until the battery was drained or the fuse removed from the cap (granted I don’t know how long the cap would hold a charge for in a disconnected state???

Thinking that caps and ignition condensers are much the same thing, I’ve had ignition condensers with the 1970 stamping on them work better than brand new condensers


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68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
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I'll be wiring it up on Saturday.

While we are on the subject;

I usually hook up my battery Tender charger after a ride to keep the battery topped off.

Been doing it for years on my bikes and lawn equipment. Always served me well and extends the life on these small batteries for years, in most cases.

The BSA is different, as you know, because or the positive ground.

I wired the charger the usual way, and worked as usual

But last week I forgot to disconnect it before starting the bike, That move destroyed the charger.

Also the battery stopped accepting a charge.

Do you think that was also the cause of my Podtronic reg. failure?

SteveG

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Originally Posted by Ragmanx
The BSA is different, as you know, because or the positive ground.

I wired the charger the usual way, and worked as usual

But last week I forgot to disconnect it before starting the bike, That move destroyed the charger.

Also the battery stopped accepting a charge.

Do you think that was also the cause of my Podtronic reg. failure?

SteveG
Wired the charger the usual way. I hope that doesn't mean that you reversed the polarity to match your other vehicles.
There's a reason they put that sticker under the seat, "Warning, positive Earth."


Knowledge speaks. Wisdom listens.

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Are you saying I should wire the charger with it's positive connection to the negative post of the battery and the neg to the positive?

SteveG

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