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#837991 01/25/21 9:59 am
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Peter R Offline OP
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I have read that the oil flow from the tank to the engine can be improved by enlaging the feed line fron 5/16 to 3/8 inch.
The T160 had this setup from new, I am not sure if older engines will benefit much from this modification so, opinions please.

I also would like to know how to proceed when performing this mod.
How are the inlet stubs fixed in the engine casing ? are they threaded or shrunk in ?
The oil inlet in the casing to the pump must be enlarged as well I suppose.

Any opinion on the necessity of this mod, and/or do's and dont's will be welcome.
Thanks


Peter.
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1972 Trident T150T
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1969 Benelli 250 sport special
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Hi Peter,

Originally Posted by Peter R
I have read that the oil flow from the tank to the engine can be improved by enlaging the feed line fron 5/16 to 3/8 inch.
The T160 had this setup from new, I am not sure if older engines will benefit much from this modification
Not even all T160's had it. Recent TOL thread.

Benefit? If the bike will never be ridden when it is cold, possibly the modification is not needed?

But it is a modification that does not have any downside; if you are rebuilding the engine, the modifications are wise imho.

Hth.

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Originally Posted by Peter R
I also would like to know how to proceed when performing this mod.
How are the inlet stubs fixed in the engine casing ? are they threaded or shrunk in ?
The oil inlet in the casing to the pump must be enlarged as well I suppose.


"...does require some expertise with a special piloted reamer,..."

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If you are the sort of guy who gets his bike out on a winter morning, starts it up and then uses high revs from the get go then you need to do the mod.
If you have the engine in pieces for other reasons then it is good to do the mod as there is no downside.
If your bike does not have the mod and is running well then just be careful not to use high revs for the first few miles--especially in the winter.
Many thousands of triples have not been modded and give good service so IMHO it is a "nice to have" but not essential.
Just my two cents worth of course.

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Peter R Offline OP
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I have no intention to rev the sh*t out of my bike on a cold winter morning, I actually never use the full potential of my triple.
This is because the older I get, the faster a rider I used to be. (lol)
So I decided not to bother with the oil supply line modification.
Thanks all for your input.

Last edited by Peter R; 01/26/21 11:46 am.

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Hi Guys I am new to this forum, I am doing a rebuild on my 1973 T150v. she is all apart. so this seems like a good idea.
What is the best way to proceed with the oil feed enlargement. I do have a reamer that is sized down for this job. Are there any unexpected. pitfalls ? Also does the oil pump internal passages need enlarging?
many thanks.

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Suggest a read through of the thread second from the top of this board might be quite useful "T150 common sense engine mods"
HTH

Last edited by Tridentman; 02/20/21 3:09 am.
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so, what's the tolerance on an interference fit for the pipe?
Doesn't matter, I'd screw it up.


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I did this conversion on a Rocket 3 I had. I used a drill with the same diameter as the pipe and drove it in. I couldn't pull it out again for the life of me so I trusted it. I can remember thinking about drilling out the holes in the backplate of the pump, but can't remember if I did. It was nearly 30 ago.

Later on I thought it thoroughly through and came to the conclusion that it's nothing to bother with. After all, Doug Hele who developed these engines, and who has been deservedly elevated to a saint-like figure after his death, arrived at the dimensions by careful calculations and lots of testing. True, the IOM marshal bikes was expected to be started on a sometimes very cold mountain and be revved right out, but this is 1) a very unlikely scenario for today's owners and 2) we can use free flowing modern multigrade oils very different from 50 years ago.

I currently ride a 72 Trident equipped with an oil pressure gauge and the pressure shoots right up to 80+ psi however cold. I gave it a crank transplant this fall but never really considered the oil pipe mod.
I'm with Tridentman on this and think Peter made a wise decision.

SR

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Thanks I will have a look through as you suggested....

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The inlet stub is shrunk/pressed in... no thread. ! I removed one many moons ago.
What I did was put a .250" drill into the oil feed pipe, shank first, not the cutting end. then heated the casing, as though it was a bearing replacement. type of heat. then clamped a tap wrench to the pipe with the drill inserted to prevent it collapsing. vice grips would probably work too. then rotated the pipe and drill about a quarter of a turn back and forward while pulling on it. the oil feed pipe came out without any issues.
hope this is of use.
I also opened up the crankcase hole and corresponding oil pump hole to 5/16".
Remember, to put larger oil feed rubber piping and oil tank filter ( T160)

Last edited by Tridentguy; 02/22/21 8:25 pm. Reason: forgot to add last sentence
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Peter, Hi , do you mean opening up the oil feed pipe from T150 size which is .1/4 dia to 5/16, which is the T160 oil feed pipe size.
3/8" diameter would be the outside diameter of the pipe. Or perhaps You were talking about a high output pump, which is something I know absolutely nothing about... sorry.

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Originally Posted by Tridentguy
Peter, Hi , do you mean opening up the oil feed pipe from T150 size which is .1/4 dia to 5/16, which is the T160 oil feed pipe size.
3/8" diameter would be the outside diameter of the pipe. Or perhaps You were talking about a high output pump, which is something I know absolutely nothing about... sorry.
The inlet pipe is, as you say, originally 1/4" ID and 5/16 OD. The Outlet stub from the oil tank is the same. Now remember that the hose fits over the stubs so it's 5/16" ID. This means that there's around 5" to 6" of small bore pipes combined, compared to 12" of larger bore hose. As the knowledgeable says no real problem if unless you plan to take off like a drag bike from start on a winters day.

Having said that, I just did it anyway...

I'm not sure I've cracked my oil pressure mystery yet, but I discovered something that meant engine out again. More on that later. Now I know a bigger feed won't matter one bit with a warm engine, so that's not why I did it.
Not sure why really, but as I do sometimes take the bike out for a run in freezing temperatures, it may possibly be of some benefit.
Some people, like John Healy, contends that this modification is an absolute must. I confess that when Healy speaks, I listen...
I cut the old pipe off almost at the root and then drilled it with a 7 mm drill. That's .276" if you insist. As I approached the end of the stub, it came loose and I simply pulled it out. I then drilled an 8 mm hole to the bottom, followed by a 9,5 mm or 3/8" drill not quite all the way. I drove the new stub in, with some bearing retainer on it for luck, and could feel it really biting in. I also drilled the passage to the oil pump to 7 mm, and enlarged the pump backplate to 7 mm. Believe me, over such a short distance it matters very little if the bore is a little smaller, I did it to preserve some gasket area. I drilled out the oil tank fitting to 8 mm and adapted an 8 mm copper pipe to fit. The nut had to be drilled out too of course.
So now I have 5/16" ID pipes combined with a 10 mm ID hose. That should give me plenty of oil even on a frosty morning, and as they say, that can't be wrong.

SR

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Hi Stein,

Interesting! do you also have a thermostat in place?


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Originally Posted by BigBars
Hi Stein,

Interesting! do you also have a thermostat in place?
Yes I have, courtesy of Tridentman. I've never known it to open even after a brisk ride in the summer. To start with, I rode around with an infrared thermometer in the tank bag, but to determine if it's open you just put your hand on the right hand side of the cooler. During oil pressure testing in the garage it did open, but when the oil temp in the tank reached 80C I stopped the test. Most of the time, or even all the time in many cases, we ride around with over cooled oil, even without the cooler in the loop. I suspect many of the "80psi all day long" observations are due to over cooled oil. I suppose a long hard ride on a motorway would let the temps exceed 80C so I prefer to have the cooler in place, but thermostat controlled.

It's a compact little unit, the only slight problem is the size of the stubs, which are on the small side. I'd have bought a unit from David Madigan today.
As Tridentman has related. the cooler was designed to let the engine survive a full bore sprint in the desert. Far from a Norwegian summer, +30C days are rare, and I try to avoid riding on those days anyway. My cooler is mainly there to impress people! thumbsup

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I found my cooler helping, during summer 30+ days in traffic my oil in the tank gets really hot and I can feel it. through my pants July in Toronto can get very hot and muggy.
Instead of all this work I just use synthetic oil in my bike and never really use it in lover temperatures, not because of the oil scare, but because my old body doesn't like it anymore.

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I have one of the transmission cooler thermostats. On longer rides the oil cooler gets warm. On most of my shorter rides around town the oil only reaches the temperature where the thermostat opens, 180F.
Once a long time ago I had my oil cooler stolen. I joined the lines together with a straight pipe. Without the cooler my oil temps got up to 200F.
I used to ride year round. These days I only ride when it's between 50 and 90 degrees.
Sorry, but every time I use the degree symbol it comes out looking stupid in web postings.


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330 Kilograms (me and bike) not good, got to get back in shape...

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Rode around for an hour (back roads and twisties) and the Madigan thermostat never opened (air temp around 10 degrees)


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Looking good, Brett.
The oil stat not opening really proves its worth--the oil would otherwise be even more overcooled.

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I do wonder about the oil in the cooler. Unless I take long enough rides, in hot enough weather the thermostat never opens and the oil in the cooler never circulates.
I guess this means that the additives in that oil don't get worn out? But, it also means that that oil never gets filtered. Should I drain the cooler at each oil change?


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The thermostat does not completely block the flow through the cooler.
You can filter the return oil before the cooler so the dirt does not collect in the cooler and tank or go back through the pump before being filtered by the internal filter. this one fits under the gearbox on the right frame tube:
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+1 with Dave--there is always a small flow of oil through the cooler even when the stat is "closed".
The "sealing" at closure is deliberately not perfect.
HTH


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