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I had privelage to have personal contact with Brian Jones chief engineer at Triumph Meriden, the worker's cooperative and LF Harris. For 5 odd years Coventry Spares Ltd traded as LF Harris International here in the States. I used a lot of that time asking him questions. One that still stands out was the answer he gave when I asked him about the valve stem clearances listed in the workshop Manual, "I have never looked a Workshop Manual." I told them what they were and he answered, "That's not right."

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I am constantly amazed by how much you guys know about mechanics and Triumphs - two subjects about which I obviously know very, little.

However, it's pretty obvious that you guys know little about database design or computer programming, a couple of the skills which I have managed to pick up on along the way.

Koan58 - if you actually take a few minutes to look at TED you'll see that I included demonstrations of my program's ability to publish unlimited additional information via hyperlinks. In fact, TED can link every document (RPC, SB, WS Man or any other) in its database to a unique webpage for that document. And that webpage can include text, images, internal links (links to other documents and/or parts in the TED database), and external links - links to anything accessible out there on the internet: a post on a forum, a YouTube video, a web page, an image, or even a sound file. Get it? TED talks. Oh, never mind.

Likewise, TED can link each individual error in the database directly to an image and/or to it's own webpage, which can include text and as many images and as many links to anything else on the Internet as it takes to explain the particulars of an error.

Can a piece of paper in your hand do that? I think not.

Please, look at the demo! I'll walk you through it...

1) Bring up the TED index page (www.hermit.cc/tmc/parts/errors/index.htm)

2) Scroll down to 1969 and the SPC7 parts book entry. Notice TED can keep notes on every document - take the "Document Notes" link

3) Notice that the document notes page can include links to, well, anything.

4) Go back to TED's index and click on the link "6 issues" beneath the TED entry for SPC7..

5) You're now looking at the list of document errors for SPC7.

6) Click on the "Error Notes" link for the last error in the list (Error #100204)

7) Now you're looking at the demo notes on error 100204.

8) I've included links on this page to Koan58's first post in this thread, as well as a direct link to an image on the Baxter server, a direct link to Baxter's product page for the part, and a link to a YouTube video on how to position the inner quadrant on a Triumph 5-speed.

(Yes, I know - wrong model, wrong part. It's a DEMO!)

So let's just lay to rest the notion that there's anything so complicated about parts book errors
that they can't be represented by a "simple database" like TED. There is NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING about a parts book error that TED cannot convey.

Furthermore, TED can travel to anywhere on the planet at the speed of light and then be converted to a piece of paper using a ubiquitous device known as a printer. Why, even reverb could snag a copy of an error list without having to make a two-day (one-way) ride on a flat tire on his 1949 Triumph (hi reverb! smile good-natured kidding).

Now, speaking of error lists, I see no one has posted a link to the "mother lode" of those ephemeral parts list addendum. The operative phrase regarding those seems to be "if you can get your hands on them".

But it does make me wonder why, since Mr. Healy himself was a Triumph dealer and has been involved with Triumph since the late 1950's, and since he obviously has at least some of these documents
in his possession, and since he has said that copyright is not an issue, why he hasn't simply published them on his website?

And you Trident owners - have you seen what Mr. Healy said about YOUR parts book errors? Perhaps even the unobtainium addendum won't be of much help for your bikes. What're you going to do when Mr. Klemph is no longer willing or able to convert all your erroneous parts numbers? Are they still making good Trident parts men? What does it say about the future of Tridents, or Triumphs in general? Plexiglas, that's what.

And have you guys thought about what the likelihood is of one of these Triumph error correction addendum to be error-free? Personally I'd have more faith in a list of parts errors crowd-sourced from you guys.

They say you can't teach old dogs new tricks. I say (in my 74th year), it all depends on the dog.

You guys have fun swapping Triumph parts error horror stories. Actions speak louder than words, and being a man of action I have lots of other projects to move on to.

Tail light.


Bruce Miller
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The Bonnie Ref: https://www.hermit.cc/tmc/om/manual.htm
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Don't worry Bruce,
You do right! All of us afflicted by anno domini will take some useful information to the underside of soil, obviously some more so than others, but trying to get as much as possible in an accessible form has got to be a good thing. There will be errors in the errors, of course, but those who know should be able to minimise this (in a similar way to what is done in Wikipedia?).
My twopenn'orth,
Mick.

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What's TED?


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
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Hermit, so the first TED RDC I scrolled down to was
RDC (99-2251) 1974 750 #100174 page 35
ref. # 13. 57-4550 listed the correct part number is 57-4791

Good luck trying to do that! 57-4791 is wider and has the groove
for the locating circlip used in the later iteration of the layshaft.

57-4791 is used with the 57-4900 5 speed layshaft. Please note that the related parts for the early layshaft are also listed improperly.

All of my references have been written in my parts books, and cover more than was given to us in the addendum sheets. If you want to come down and copy them your more than welcome.

I live by Henry Fords words: "Never complain never explain. But I make exceptions. "At 82 my work load still includes working 7 days a week (one quarter of a day Sunday). Now that I am semi-retired I typically work half a day monday thru saturday: That's 8am to 8pm. This includes servicing over 300 dealers for Triumph, Norton and BSA parts and over 1,000 Vincent customers. Writing software for our business system and maintaining 2 Linux servers. We also publish quarterly magazine: Vintage Bike for the TIOC.

With the Covid we are short staffed and the staff we have have been working 60 plus hours a week. What was a stressful business has become even more so. We are constantly chasing shipments. Customs has become a nightmare. Having to arrange for shipments be trucked from Europe to the UK because freight rates from Europe have become punitive and now with Brexit freight is not getting out of the EU into England.

We have had more shipments lost in the last year than we have had in 50 plus years of business. Collecting insurance monies for thousands of dollars can take 3 to 4 months and then only if you stay on their case. Meanwhile you are out of product.

And then the phone rings and someone want us to explain how to time his magneto on a Vincent, or diagnosis his electronic ignition, that has never changed a light bulb...

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Hello John,
The 1974 T140 Manual lists the layshaft as being 57-4900, the late one, so the gears listed for reference would be the wrong ones too. AFAIK the late layshaft came in referenced by service bulletin #439 at engine number EH33674, May 1973, is this wrong?
Mick.

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Originally Posted by John Healy
Then there is a group of years where parts books were printed that contained so many mistakes that they were reprinted. In some manner, or way, the dicarder books found thier way into local salvage houses (MCE comes to mind) that specialized in buying production scrap. Has anyone that is reading this been in MCE's celler? Selling rejected parts, and scrap to local motorcycle trade was a small side occupation for a few factory workers. A lot of these parts that failed inspection, and the odd rejected parts books found their way in to the market only to make the whole what-fits-what, and what is new-old-stock a whole different problem.

This is one good thread.. Yes I have been a few times in MCE's celler or basement in the 1980's. it was good experience to haggle with Sid and I still have some parts NOS BSA parts that I bought from him. I must have been lucky cause they fit.

Last edited by Morgan aka Admin; 02/15/21 10:20 am.

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Originally Posted by Hermit
You guys have fun swapping Triumph parts error horror stories. Actions speak louder than words, and being a man of action I have lots of other projects to move on to.

Tail light.

Keep up the good work Hermit, the project will be fantastic, even if those with deep experience can find some difficult to capture edge cases, its going to be fantastic in 99% of the problems found. If we try to throw out data simply into the forums most will be lost exact to the few who search long and hard. your project can make this knowledge last....


3D TV: A format that lost a format war without even having an opponent.
Bikes: '69 T120 on average (1967 rolling frame and 1971 Bonnie engine) + '56 1/2 T110 on average (58 rolling frame - with 55 iron head engine) + 74 T150 Home model.
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