Classic British SparesKlempf British PartsBaxter CycleBritBike Sponsor SteadfastCyclesSRM EngineeringLucas Classic MotorcycleHepolite PistonsIndustrial tec supply

Upgrade your membership to: Premium Membership | Gold Membership | Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Welcome to BritBike Forum!
Britbike forum logo
Member Spotlight
Peter-L
Peter-L
Schilde, Belgium
Posts: 82
Joined: May 2006
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#839490 02/09/21 1:28 pm
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Beach Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Just got a new CWC rim for 8" half brake front wheel and having problems lacing it correctly. Usually I lace them the same way the original was and everything works out fine. This rim seems to be drilled differently and is causing problems. I think it matters which way the rim goes but don't know how to figure that out. Hoping the rim wasn't drilled completely wrong. With wheel laced as in pictures the hub side outer spokes are about 1/2" too long. Usually means it's laced wrong. Also brake side spokes will only go in opposite direction of oem rim and spokes.[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Any help appreciated.


Bill
1974 Norton Commando
1966 Lightning
1965 Lightning Rocket
1966 Norton Atlas
1967 Norton Atlas
1948 Panhead
Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale: British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,054
Likes: 92
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,054
Likes: 92
The rim is sided and should be marked usually inside the rim. I stopped using CWC as they do not always mark the rims and use changes to suit them and not either the end user or originality.

On the non CWC rim I have it has brakeside written inside the rim on one side.

On the small hub side between each pair of parallel spokes there should be 7 other spoke heads.

Your 3rd image does not show to me.

Also be useful if you read this thread on problems with the same hub.

https://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=552625

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Beach Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Read the thread and it might help. Least now think I can identify the brake side. On my wheel as in the pics, there are 7 spoke heads between the parallel spokes. Will look at it after bit with a clear head and maybe will figure it out. The 3rd pic was deleted( wrong one).


Bill
1974 Norton Commando
1966 Lightning
1965 Lightning Rocket
1966 Norton Atlas
1967 Norton Atlas
1948 Panhead
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 314
Likes: 6
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 314
Likes: 6
If you go to Devonrimcompany.com, the have a nice video for the BSA 8” front wheel lacing.


1951 ZB GS
1953 BB GS
1953 Super Flash
1954 Vincent BS
1963 RGS
1956 Triumph T110

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Beach Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Thanks. Was using that.


Bill
1974 Norton Commando
1966 Lightning
1965 Lightning Rocket
1966 Norton Atlas
1967 Norton Atlas
1948 Panhead
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,340
Likes: 20
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,340
Likes: 20
Bill: Did you try to build it flipped over to the other side? You might have the correct holes for the two sides of the hub but they are coming from the wrong side so as to influence the effective 'length'.

Gordo


The roadside repairs make for the best post ride stories.
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Beach Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Good idea. Will try that next.


Bill
1974 Norton Commando
1966 Lightning
1965 Lightning Rocket
1966 Norton Atlas
1967 Norton Atlas
1948 Panhead
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 907
Likes: 14
Sponsor
Offline
Sponsor
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 907
Likes: 14
I have found that there are a couple different ways the rims can be drilled and still lace up fine with the correct spokes. Rather then try to duplicate your old rim pattern, clear you mind and approach each side sort of separately. Meaning the pattern for each side will be the same as on your old rim but how they relate to the other side may be a bit different. This is also true for the 6" conical hubs on the B50s. A couple different drillings that use the same spoke lengths and lacing pattern on each side. CWC rims seem to use the "alternate" drilling from what most of the stock rims come with. Folks often enough call me an say I must have sent them the wrong spokes, but with a bit of encouragement they always end up figuring it out.


check out: www.bsaunitsingles.com
2500 BSA part numbers with inventory in stock just for the unit singles!
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Beach Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Originally Posted by Peter Quick
I have found that there are a couple different ways the rims can be drilled and still lace up fine with the correct spokes. Rather then try to duplicate your old rim pattern, clear you mind and approach each side sort of separately. Meaning the pattern for each side will be the same as on your old rim but how they relate to the other side may be a bit different. This is also true for the 6" conical hubs on the B50s. A couple different drillings that use the same spoke lengths and lacing pattern on each side. CWC rims seem to use the "alternate" drilling from what most of the stock rims come with. Folks often enough call me an say I must have sent them the wrong spokes, but with a bit of encouragement they always end up figuring it out.
Appreciate the info. Using my original spokes, so know they're right. I think your clearing my mind and just figuring it out is a great idea. Was kind of stuck on how original was laced.


Bill
1974 Norton Commando
1966 Lightning
1965 Lightning Rocket
1966 Norton Atlas
1967 Norton Atlas
1948 Panhead
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,721
Likes: 28
A
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,721
Likes: 28
Using old spokes is not a good idea, they are highly stressed in use


BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
Greeves 200 "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500 sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500 "Llareggub"
Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 & '36 OK Supreme
Kawasaki ZZR1400 "Kuro no senshi"
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 107
Likes: 15
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 107
Likes: 15
Originally Posted by Beach
Just got a new CWC rim for 8" half brake front wheel and having problems lacing it correctly. Usually I lace them the same way the original was and everything works out fine. This rim seems to be drilled differently and is causing problems. I think it matters which way the rim goes but don't know how to figure that out. Hoping the rim wasn't drilled completely wrong. With wheel laced as in pictures the hub side outer spokes are about 1/2" too long. Usually means it's laced wrong. Also brake side spokes will only go in opposite direction of oem rim and spokes.
Any help appreciated.

Hi Beach,

Don't know if it will help you but I bought a stainless steel rim and spoke set from the Devon rim Company and used their online wheel building video. It all went perfectly and the rim was marked up by them as to which side was the brake drum side and where the brake side inner spokes started. I have attached pictures and hope they might help you.

Kev E

IMG_1380.JPG IMG_1379.JPG IMG_1382.JPG
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 63
P
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
P
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 63
After looking at your wheel, I noticed that you have a cross 3 spoke pattern on the hub side. On my BSA 441 Victor Special my wheel has a cross 4 spoke pattern. I believe your wheel should be laced in a cross 4 spoke pattern as well. That would definitely explain why your spokes are 1/2 inch too long.
I could submit a picture if you would like.

Peter Joe

Last edited by Peter_Joe; 02/11/21 4:45 pm.
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Beach Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Originally Posted by Peter_Joe
After looking at your wheel, I noticed that you have a cross 3 spoke pattern on the hub side. On my BSA 441 Victor Special my wheel has a cross 4 spoke pattern. I believe your wheel should be laced in a cross 4 spoke pattern as well. That would definitely explain why your spokes are 1/2 inch too long.
I could submit a picture if you would like.

Peter Joe
I think brake side is cross 2 and hub side is cross 4. Pics of yours would be appreciated.


Bill
1974 Norton Commando
1966 Lightning
1965 Lightning Rocket
1966 Norton Atlas
1967 Norton Atlas
1948 Panhead
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 63
P
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
P
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 63
Here are a few pictures of my 441 front wheel spokes. The drum size is definitely a cross 2 spoke pattern and the hub side a cross 4 spoke pattern. On your wheel it appears that the spoke pair that does the initial crossing at the hub goes out to the rim with 11 spoke hole spacing. On mine with a cross 4 it has a 15 hole spacing at the rim. It might be easier to see if I draw a picture if that would be of more help.


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


Peter Joe

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Beach Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Sure picture appreciated


Bill
1974 Norton Commando
1966 Lightning
1965 Lightning Rocket
1966 Norton Atlas
1967 Norton Atlas
1948 Panhead
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Beach Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Originally Posted by Peter Quick
I have found that there are a couple different ways the rims can be drilled and still lace up fine with the correct spokes. Rather then try to duplicate your old rim pattern, clear you mind and approach each side sort of separately. Meaning the pattern for each side will be the same as on your old rim but how they relate to the other side may be a bit different. This is also true for the 6" conical hubs on the B50s. A couple different drillings that use the same spoke lengths and lacing pattern on each side. CWC rims seem to use the "alternate" drilling from what most of the stock rims come with. Folks often enough call me an say I must have sent them the wrong spokes, but with a bit of encouragement they always end up figuring it out.
Still having same problem. In pics attached is laced a bit different with same result...Outer spokes,hub side 1/2" too long. Contacted CWC and said they'd help if I sent pics of wheel but haven't heard back yet.


Bill
1974 Norton Commando
1966 Lightning
1965 Lightning Rocket
1966 Norton Atlas
1967 Norton Atlas
1948 Panhead
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,597
Likes: 53
J
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,597
Likes: 53
Looking at the pictures it looks like your nipples are the Metric version (.281 inch in diameter) while the hole is for the .300 inch nipples. In the wheel building world this is not acceptable. When .281 inch nipples are properly tightened they tend to pull through .300 inch holes in the rim. Now it could be the angle the picture was aken, but I would get my verniers.

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 834
Likes: 97
C
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
C
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 834
Likes: 97
Hi Beach,
Have you checked the spoke lengths against the BSA data?
Look at this https://bsac10c11c12.co.uk/smf/brakes-wheels-service-sheets/spokes-all-models/
I am sure I saw a better set of images on some other forum ???
If I remember I have a wheel I can measure the short length spokes on tomorrow

John

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Beach Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 991
Likes: 39
Originally Posted by John Healy
Looking at the pictures it looks like your nipples are the Metric version (.281 inch in diameter) while the hole is for the .300 inch nipples. In the wheel building world this is not acceptable. When .281 inch nipples are properly tightened they tend to pull through .300 inch holes in the rim. Now it could be the angle the picture was aken, but I would get my verniers.
Actually am using oem spokes and nipples. Nipples are .250 and hole is .275. Hope CWC didn't drill holes in rim too large.

Last edited by Beach; 02/18/21 11:10 pm.

Bill
1974 Norton Commando
1966 Lightning
1965 Lightning Rocket
1966 Norton Atlas
1967 Norton Atlas
1948 Panhead

Moderated by  Allan G, Jon W. Whitley 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Job CycleBritish Cycle SupplyMorries PlaceKlempf British PartsPodtronicVintage MagazineBSA Unit SinglesBritBike SponsorBritish Tools & FastenersBritBike SponsorBritBike Sponsor






© 1996-2021 britbike.com
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5