Britbike forum Forums British motorcycles in general The triple forum Waste of time and money

I spent about $25 to have the TR3OC research my T150V, #KG 03828.
I took pictures of both serial numbers, and took rubbings of both.
The statement I got says September of 1969!
They also included a hand-written note saying, "I am sorry we have no further information on that particular Trident."
Did BSA burn the records when they bugged out at Small Heath?

I'd want my money back, wrong and incomplete to boot. 5 speed gearbox in 69 ?

Hi David,
People make mistakes ... email back reminding him it's a "G", not a "C"?

No, it's part of the guy misreading the "G" as a "C"; the TR3OC doesn't have the early T150 records (the Hinckley museum has them?); however, irrelevant to you as yours is a '72, for which the TR3OC does have the records.

Btw, the high number indicates yours was made in calendar September 1972 (there are also KG's built in September 1971 but they have low numbers and 4-speed 'boxes).

As he screwed up, ask him if he'll relate the reason why Small Heath continued to number and date-code T150's built in August, September and October 1972 as '72 in the '72 number sequence, but Hurricane engines built at the same time were date-coded as '73 and numbered from (KH)00101?

Hth.

Regards,

Hi, doesn't conventional wisdom have it that the next model year started in August of the preceding year ? This being the case then a KG prefix would indicate a September 1971 build of a 1972 model year machine. Surely by Setember 1972 Triumph would have had the 1973 model year machines rolling down the production line ?
If this is not the case then is the suggestion that '72 model year machines were continuing to be made in Sept '72 ?

Hi, having asked an old friend - Roy Allen who used to be the dating officer for the TR3OC it would seem that the first machines numbered from JG 00101 were built in August 1971 and the production sequcence ran right through to around NG 05725 in October 1972 making DavidP's machine as Stuart has said a September 1972 build. Roy has said that the late '72 machines were being built in tandem with both the '73 model year machines as well as the Hurricane.

Probably still had some wire guards to get rid of or some such.

Total cockup! The first line of the certificate says, "Make: Triumph Trident T150T"
Below that they list the correct frame and engine number.
I believe that you mentioned that they kept the G until October in an earlier post. That is precisely why I spent the money to confirm that mine was built in September of '72. The title says 1973, probably sat at the dealer until then. It's definitely a '72, had the conical front end when I bought it. At least the five speed box hasn't exploded yet. I kind of wonder if maybe it came with the improved '73 box?
Maybe they had a backlog of '72 machines with all the labor troubles, or just decided to clear out leftover parts?

Hi,
If "conventional wisdom" = old wives' tale, yes; doesn't have anything to do with reality.

Not with a number as 'high' (in BSA/Triumph's sense of the word) as David's bike's; as I say, it's easy to tell September 1971-built KG's (and JG's and NG's) from September 1972-built KG's (and JG's and NG's) by the number.

That's the odd thing, they did have if it was a Hurricane, just not a T150 ...

Please give Roy my regards when you speak to him next?

That's the odd thing aiui:-

. September 1972 through to January 1973, Small Heath built batches of T150 engines interspersed with batches of Hurricane engines (Small Heath built all triple engines; before the Meriden sit-in, Triumphs were then trucked over to Meriden to be assembled into cycle parts and dispatched);

. September and October 1972, T150 engines were date-coded as '72 (G year letter) and numbered in the '72 sequence, Hurricane engines were date-coded as '73 (H year letter) and numbered in a new sequence;

. December 1972-on, T150 engines were date-coded as '73 (H year letter) and numbered in the same sequence as Hurricanes (aiui that's why the highest Hurricane engine number is in the 02xxx range but less than 1200 actual Hurricanes were built); the earliest '73 T150's interspersed with Hurricanes were "Series 1" and look like '72 - small rear lamp, conical front brake, etc.; it's only some time after Hurricane production ended that Meriden started making '73 "Series 2" T150's - large rear lamp, disc front brake, etc.

Nah, they fitted 'em to Hurricanes ...

Not discernible in the '73 build records?

Hth.

Regards,

Hi Stuart.

Its a long time since I looked at production figures, the conventional wisdom piece on the next years model being produced from August after the factory holiday shutdown used to hold good, 1972 obviously bucking the trend.......

Hi,
Something I've wanted to do for a long time; blessed with a little more spare time as of last year, I had hoped to be able to go and waste some of it in the VMCC Library satisfying my curiosity; sadly, the current medical crisis has screwed that.

Reason I'm curious and want to check actual factory records is books by people like John Nelson and Harry Woolridge - whom you'd expect to know what they're talking about - appear to show "conventional wisdom" is an old wives tale certainly '69-on, the changeover is more often not in August - it wasn't for '69, '70 or '71; was for '72 and '73 (apparently except the '73 T150 ...), wasn't for '74, '75 or '76, etc., etc.

Regards,

I emailed the club registrar. Graham apologized for the error, something about his printer acting up that day. He will re-investigate as time allows.
For now I guess I'll just assume that mine came down the line in September of '72.

I joined the TROC for a year. Thinking it would be a good source for triple info. It is mainly for the brits. They get all caught up in the administration of the club. Not technical stuff like I was looking for. I never renewed!! And came to the conclusion that it was a waste also. This fourm is way better!!

Graham replied again this morning. He promised to send a correct certificate. He also confirmed that my bike was indeed built in September of 1972.
I did find TR3OC more useful when the club was based in North America back in the 90's. The newsletter contained more technical articles then. These days it's more about British and European rides and rallies. With the lockdown, the latest issue has some great articles on the racing triples. Members can also access an archive of old issues and technical articles on the club website.
I just like to support the club, as well as this forum.

Hi David,
The TR3OC's never been based in North America; you're perhaps thinking of Kim Rowden's newsletter, from which the Triples On Line website emerged? Kim believed TOL was a cheaper way of reaching more people.

Regards,

Well, they certainly called themselves the Trident and Rocket 3 Owners' Club. Before Kim the newsletter was published by some guy in West Virginia.
Different organization, yes. I'm looking at issue #65 from March of 1992. Issue #65 in the British archive is from 1990. Though they have the same cover, totally different content.
I have a T-shirt from the North American club, but it no longer fits.
But, my point was that their newsletter had articles about keeping your triple running, or improving it. It wasn't all about regional meets and rides, or trips to museums to look at the prototype.

Cheaper way of reaching more people, AKA the interweb where people go because they're too cheap to actually pay for something.

I got the correct certificate in today's mail. Assembled at Meriden, September of 1972. Dispatched to Triumph Corp, Baltimore.

Hi David,
Out of curiosity, does the certificate differentiate between when the engine was built at Small Heath, when the engine and cycle parts were assembled together at Meriden and when it was dispatched?

Regards,

Stuart,
The certificate merely states, "Built by Triumph Motorcycles, Meriden, England in September 1972."
A separate note states, "The build records that we have do vary with their content between what was built at Meriden and what was built at Small Heath, I cannot be 100% certain but it does appear that it was originally dispatched to Triumph Corp at Baltimore, as were many at that time."
I still wonder if the 5-speed was built to 73 standards, but I won't know that unless I need to open the box. The parts book which I bought a couple of years ago includes a couple of sheets of updates, dated July 19, 1972. Some of the changes include the later gear part numbers. Mine has the plunger index, not the leaf spring.