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George Kaplan #835573 01/05/21 7:47 am
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Originally Posted by George Kaplan
I have bought loads of stuff from the USA and the problem (in the past) has been that HMRC charge vat and duty (if applicable) on the combined cost of goods plus shipping. Plus, from the USA, Parcel Force/Post Office always charge a £12 handling fee to collect the vat/duty. I have also bought stuff from Europe and Europe (for me) has always been cheaper for like for like items.

Not sure if the Ebay Global Shipping Program will be impacted by this change either.

John

Parcel force are a rob dog. I just received a bill from Fed Ex, I wasn’t happy receiving it but it was much cheaper than parcel force would have been. The eBay global system is good, you put before you start but it works out cheaper than paying parcel force... and you get the items quicker. If everyone had this option other than just eBay then the world
Would move a lot quicker.

With Europe I have paid more % vat, but in general the parts were cheaper.. whether they be new off a private dealer or off eBay.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

British motorcycles on eBay
Tridentman #835643 01/05/21 8:41 pm
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To be fair, the comments about buying stuff from Holland (?) before 31st Dec and after Jan 1 from Germany means that different rules applied.
The tax didn't come in until 2021.

Tridentman #835645 01/05/21 8:53 pm
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eBay Global Shipping seems to work as a freight consolidator. Their volumes would be high enough to warrant airfreight pallets or containers to most countries, then break down and post the shipment at a hub.

I know eBay now applies Australia's GST on purchases from other countries, so I assume they will do something similar for the UK.


DHL seems to have a similar shipping arrangement in place, tied in with the postal system. Based on a sample size of 1 (our order from Wideline), it works very well.

AngloBike #835650 01/05/21 9:48 pm
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Originally Posted by AngloBike
To be fair, the comments about buying stuff from Holland (?) before 31st Dec and after Jan 1 from Germany means that different rules applied.
The tax didn't come in until 2021.


You are correct. The initial comment was that it seemed that some European retailers were holding on orders placed in mid December due to post Brexit rules uncertainty.

Its now seems that there is post Brext hesitance by some retailers due to better understanding of the rules.

John

Tridentman #835662 01/05/21 11:20 pm
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I was also giving a comparable of the tax according to the country items were being bought from. If it’s being done by the book then it can be less or more depending on the sellers country tax rate vs the UK.

Countries wishing to sell items to the uk have to register for UK VAT (regardless of being in Europe or not), thus instead of charging 15,20,25% or what ever tax they do for their own country they have to sell it at UK 20% rate. This has to be received each year and a lot of companies are wondering whether to get on board with this or not. (Something I’ve taken from a work discussion today, we import and export a lot of equipment). For some retailers it’s not worth the hassle. However to get a better prospective it would be interesting to know what our American cousins that are also vendors (on here) have to do when sending an item to the UK?


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Irish Swede #835665 01/05/21 11:31 pm
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Originally Posted by Irish Swede
If this is so, now I will buy more used parts from the UK, as the reduced price will help compensate for the outrageous British postal costs.

Postage costs world wide have gone up.
Apparently this is because the old postal conference has expired .
The conferance ( why it is not called a contract I have no idea ) regulated how much different countries got paid for moving post through their borders .
Apparently i is very complex as mail traveling dirctly across some ones air space had to be paid for and if a parcel went across a dozen counries then there was a dozen paymens to be made.
According to the reporter the nations culd not come to an agreement as to how the new rates would be set & paid so it broke down and the big discouns for mail vanished , never to return.

Any ne involved in freight knows that shifting bulk freight depot to depot is quite profitable.
So profitable that Australia's previous richest man , Kerry Packer lobbied hard to have the depot to depot postal haulage privatised .

With the collapse of the internaonal postal conference this is what has happened
So private companies bulk parcels to ship between states or countries then pu them into the destinations postal system for the heavy loss making depot to door leg .
To compensate for the loss of the profitable depot to depot section and the vast increase in the loss making depot to door section , all postal services increased their postal rates for packages drastically.
The higher rates provided more space for private delivery services ( ebay parcel fror instance ) to enter the parcel market .
This again reduce the profitability of parcel post so the price goes up which allows more competitors and thus it continues .
Eventually the private enerprise delivery companies will send the postal service broke because they can charge silly rates for anything that is out of the way where as most postal services charge flat rate or distance rate that has no volume element in it .

So a parcel going from a small own with low volume to another low volume small town will cost 10 to 20 times the price of the same carcel going from a high volume city to another high volume city .

When i was delivering air satchels the delivery fee the company got was around $ 7.50 flat any where in the state.
I delivered around 1000 city satchels at 25¢ each which subsidized the outer west driver who was paid $ 4.50 each and of course the remote deliveries which could run up to $ 35 .
There were new entrants into the satchel market almost daily offering discounts to companies who only sent satchels from major cities to major cities.
Ultimately they all failed because sooner or latter a big customer demands deliveries to obscure destinations but enough of them came in to drop the volune enough to make it very difficult for us to survive.
The exact same forces are now being exerted on parcels .

EvilPay make up to 20 times what they get from the sales fee on the e-parcel service .


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Tridentman #835689 01/06/21 5:15 am
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I too would be curious about taxes. I know that we in the US do not pay VAT for items we buy from the UK. Do you pay VAT on purchases from the US?
I've also ordered from Greece and New Zealand with no VAT charged.
Of course, virtually everything from China comes with free shipping. I suspect that their government subsidizes postage to encourage export business.
eBay and Amazon have started charging state sales taxes on all purchases. Used to be they only charged sales tax on items ordered from vendors in one's own state.


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DavidP #835702 01/06/21 8:25 am
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Originally Posted by DavidP
I too would be curious about taxes. I know that we in the US do not pay VAT for items we buy from the UK. Do you pay VAT on purchases from the US?
I've also ordered

In the UK (at least up to the end of 2020) orders from the USA were held up by the postal service in the UK and you had to pay VAT, import duty (if applicable) and a £12 admin fee before you could get the item delivered.

So yes, we do pay vat.

John

George Kaplan #835705 01/06/21 9:35 am
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Originally Posted by George Kaplan
Originally Posted by DavidP
I too would be curious about taxes. I know that we in the US do not pay VAT for items we buy from the UK. Do you pay VAT on purchases from the US?
I've also ordered

In the UK (at least up to the end of 2020) orders from the USA were held up by the postal service in the UK and you had to pay VAT, import duty (if applicable) and a £12 admin fee before you could get the item delivered.

So yes, we do pay vat.

John

I think its more of a question if we pay US rate of tax as well, or just our tax.

It used to be anything under a certain value used to be ignored, now you can have a $10 item and still get stung (vat + £12 handling fee)


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Tridentman #835852 01/07/21 5:59 am
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AFAIK We have no national tax on most purchases. The individual states impose their own sales tax at their own rates. Each state imposes its own tax, then "municipal options" add to that. Still, it's less than half of your 20% rate.
Used to be we didn't pay sales tax on items ordered from another state. That is no longer true.


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Allan G #835859 01/07/21 9:21 am
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Allen,

I also received an invoice from Fedex for import duties.
You should thank Marino/MAP for this not berate Parcel Force, although I have cursed PF many times for stuff I have imported from the US which has been held in the depot until I stumped up import charges.

Look at your invoice, you paid import tax on goods valued at $115 so with the exchange rate the £17.45 is the 20% VAT/Import Tax , plus there is also an "handling" charge of £12 , so not so different to the charges PF apply.

So we have Marino/MAP to thank for using a bit of foresight and common sense.

KevRasen #835863 01/07/21 10:58 am
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Originally Posted by KevRasen
Allen,

I also received an invoice from Fedex for import duties.
You should thank Marino/MAP for this not berate Parcel Force, although I have cursed PF many times for stuff I have imported from the US which has been held in the depot until I stumped up import charges.

Look at your invoice, you paid import tax on goods valued at $115 so with the exchange rate the £17.45 is the 20% VAT/Import Tax , plus there is also an "handling" charge of £12 , so not so different to the charges PF apply.

So we have Marino/MAP to thank for using a bit of foresight and common sense.


I wasn't making any refrence to Marino/MAP (I don't believe I mentioned them) I have purchased hundreds of items from the US, Canada. Aus and europe in the last 15 years or probably more. Mostly they have been from the US.

My point/question is where VAT is applicable from a Vendor, has it been charged at the home country rate and then UK C&E charge VAT again on top of that. It shouldn't have been... but this doesn't mean it hasn't, as to not charge VAT the vendor would have to apply for a export licence to the UK. That can be costly and a lot of work to some vendors and tbh I don't blame them... I just think the UK C&E system gets to be a bit expensive.

I have purchased items from CBS, Ed V, Vintage cables in Canada, MAP, Brit Cycle, Rabers and many more that I cannot think of at the moment. I continue to do so because I want to buy from them and like the quality of the products they sell.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Allan G #835876 01/07/21 2:15 pm
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OK my mistake as I wrongly assumed your Fedex invoice was for a set of rods from Map as that's what mine was for , notably the first I have received in this way.
I was just highlighting that Fedex and/or Parcel Force will only apply import duty / VAT on the declared value of the goods , sometimes they will also include the cost of the carriage and my recent experience had been positive because the vendor had been very fair with the documentation.
I've bought plenty of BSA bits from the US and to date haven't been charged US tax, some have attracted UK tax when arriving and some have come through without being stopped.

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Tridentman #835879 01/07/21 2:57 pm
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Sorry Kev, I just re-read my response and it seamed a bit sharp. I did get one for the MAP parts but it was very reasonable as you pointed out, I didn't want to vindicate Marino as I have found him/and MAP really good to deal with. (wierdly I got the invoice a few weeks after receiving the parts)

My response was more around the expected question of "why am I importing parts if I don't like the charges?" least thats what I would be inclined to think if I saw someone else complaining bitterly.

Years ago I used to get a few parts through without being stopped, If i bought a few then some would get stopped, if I waited 6 months I'd get a few parcels through before being billed, I think now I am on the C&E black list or something as I always get charged now. eek

If I had the option I'd rather receive the parcels by fed-ex rather than Parcel Force (USPS), the parts arrived within days of the order being made and no extra hold up from the handling aspect.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Allan G #835897 01/07/21 5:04 pm
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Allan,

Forget the "sharpness" , bounced off.
Agreed the Fedex experience is a damned sight more convenient than Parcel Force delaying your goods until you pay upfront.
As for what gets taxed and what doesn't it's a complete crap shoot, the last thing I received tax free was a A65 frame so it was hardly inconspicuous, can't remember who the courier was.
Buying direct from US main Britbike vendors is still a go for me but US ebay doesn't have the bargains it once had when you factor in the dollar to pound rate and the chance of adding 20% plus £12 to it.
But then again UK ebay prices are getting diabolical for what most of the time is borderline crap, certainly for A65 stuff.
These looked quality but £1420 for a set of rear sets !!!!!!!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-A65-rearset-footrests/184603282508

Last edited by KevRasen; 01/07/21 7:07 pm. Reason: added info
KevRasen #835983 01/08/21 2:15 pm
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Originally Posted by KevRasen
These looked quality but £1420 for a set of rear sets !!!!!!!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-A65-rearset-footrests/184603282508

Yikes I wondered what those sold for!! they are not even original parts and the brake lever is definately a chop shop one (probably C15)
Even the brackets are not correct nor their mounting points.

I was lucky when I got my rear sets, almost everything on them was original old stock, the only parts I had to fabricate myself was the right hand bracket for the foot rest, I omitted the stop plate (which is also ommited here) plus a few spacers (missing on the ebay set), linkage (used 5/16" which improved the brake) and the fulcrum/bolts.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

George Kaplan #836011 01/08/21 5:55 pm
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Originally Posted by George Kaplan
Some people on here might be interested in this "Real" feedback.

I ordered a motorcycle part from Germany on the 18th December. A few days later I got this.

"Dear John,
we’re sorry but the order you successfully made (and paid for) cannot be processed at this time due to Brexit related changes in our book keeping system not being completed.
Our ordering system should have prevented this from happening, but we made a mistake here. Our bad.
Until our book keeping has been updated, all orders from the UK will have to be cancelled (we’re really sorry for this), and payments will be returned to you.
As soon as we’re ready for UK orders again, we will notify you. We’re confident that we’ll be up and running again in January. "


Then today I got

"sorry again for having to temporarily disable your access to your account. We still have not been able to get reliable information as to how deliveries to the UK shall be handled due to changed customs regulations after Brexit. We are doing some trial-and-error test shipments this week to get some solid feedback on how the new process is supposed to work. As soon as we’re confident that we can ship to your address with the usual reliability, we’ll let you know and normal use of your account will be resumed. Until then, please bear with us a little longer. Thanks for your patience, we’re working on it."

The part is not available in the UK although it is available in the USA but obviously usually Europe is much easier and cheaper. I will be interested to see how this pans out.

John

So today I got an update from the company in Germany as follows:

"after this week’s test shippings have safely arrived at their UK destinations, we’re able to reopen your accounts. From tonight on, normal usage of your UK accounts will be possible.

Well, almost. To alleviate the consequences of Brexit to mail order businesses, orders up to GBP 135 are exempt from customs duties. Sounds great, but in effect means shippings below this threshold must be processed using a british tax accountant. There is a solution on the way in the bureaucracy, but was not ready to be implemented by 1.1.2021 and has been postponed to mid-2021.

Up to then we’d recommend avoiding orders below the GBP 135 threshold if possible, as this may unreasonably delay processing and shipping.

Again, sorry for all the fuss. Keep on wrenching, spring is round the corner."


I may have mentioned that I tried ordering the parts from Holland after the order from Germany was cancelled. The Dutch supplier emailed to say the parts were being sent Thursday so I am hoping that they will turn up soon, I will let you know.

John

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Tridentman #836069 01/09/21 9:46 am
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Might be good to have a buddy in Europe who can repost some parts on your behalf.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

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Pre Brexit, within the EU, any vat was charged at the retailer's local EU rate and no extra tax was charged
With EU to outside the union, it was possible for the sale to be made vat free. There was the expectation that vat (or equivalent) would be charged on entry to the foreign country.
In the past, I have been forced to stump up VAT on second hand parts with a low value from the USA. In general, the parts were still a bargain compared to the same rare part in the uk.

What seems to be weird is the way that the UK Government are insisting that companies outside the uk act as tax collectors for them.
I don't think any other government does this, although I could be wrong?

AngloBike #836100 01/09/21 6:57 pm
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Originally Posted by AngloBike
...What seems to be weird is the way that the UK Government are insisting that companies outside the uk act as tax collectors for them.
I don't think any other government does this, although I could be wrong?
In Germany it depends mostly on the courier service subject to a proper goods declaration by the seller/sender..

FedEx does collect the VAT and tariff (where applicable), delivers the goods to your door and sends you some days later an invoice with a nominal service charge, around 10 or 12 EUR.
DHL sometimes collects the VAT and tariff and you pay those upon delivery of the parcel, IIRC no service charge.

From my perspective both solutions are okay, as you don not have to get to the custom office, open the parcel there to prove the content to be in line with the declaration, pay VAT and tariff and finally get your goods.

I myself, I am well off as the next customs office is 6 mls away from my home.

If you lived on the countryside it might be 30 or 40 mls to the next customs office, so I suppose people living rurally will appreciate such tax collection services. .

IME especially FedEx has proven a good and quick service. I ordered a set of pistons from Marino on Tuesday, they were delivered on Friday. Amazing, indeed. And as additional benefit they seem to have slipped through custom-wise. I never got an invoice, neither from FedEx nor from the German customs office.

Cheers!

Ph.

Last edited by Phil in Germany; 01/10/21 8:45 am.

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Originally Posted by Phil in Germany
I ordered a set of pistons from Marino on Tuesday, they were delivered on Friday. Amazing, indeed. And as additional benefit they seem to have slipped thorugh custom-wise. I never got an invoice, neither from FedEx nor from the German customs office.

Cheers!

Ph.
Marino has been in business as long as I've owned British bikes, longer. If there's a way to make the transaction easier I'm sure he knows how. Four days to Germany is amazing, it usually takes that long to get here, only 700 miles away.


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To conclude my comments regarding the purchase of motorcycle parts from the EU post Brexit.

The parts from the Dutch vendor arrived on Wednesday this week which wasn't too bad given that I think that there was a delay due to the Christmas holiday.

My impression is that the Dutch vendor seemed to have got his act together and in real terms the parts only took a short time longer to arrive than pre-Brexit.

The German vendor wasn't as well prepared so needed more of a learning period. Furthermore the German vendor is recommending that all orders are over £135 GBP until the rules are amended in, maybe, 6 months time. This is obviously not ideal because the parts that I wanted came to approx £60 GBP and I don't want/need additional items from this vendor to the additional value.

I am pretty sure that in a few month time most vendors will have worked the rules out and also the UK government may have sorted out some of the more stupid rules.

John

P.S. I forgot to mention, the parts arrived by regular mail with no customs charges or tax so the vendor seems to have sorted out his paperwork to the satisfaction of the UK authorities.

Last edited by George Kaplan; 01/15/21 8:55 pm. Reason: P.S.
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On January 1 of 2021 the UK tax folks invoked the following rule:

Direct sellers - businesses making sales direct to GB customers
Businesses making sales of goods not exceeding £135 in value (per consignment) to customers in the UK, where the goods are outside the UK at the point of sale, will become liable to register and account for VAT on those sales.

Record keeping
OMPs and direct sellers will be required to keep electronic records of their sales for a period of 6 years and to provide records electronically to HMRC on request.


So for me this would entail collecting 20% on each sale, including 20% on shipping costs from the purchaser. Then programs would have to be written to create sales reports to satisfy UK bureaucrats report form specifications. Then I would have to make something like quarterly payments of collected VAT collections to the UK. Of course since the exchange rate is constantly changing what I pay will never be the same as what I collect. Sometimes more and sometimes less. So how does one balance that out with out spending inordinate amounts of time analyzing data? You can imagine that a sale of $ 30 worth of parts where my profit might be less than $ 10 makes even considering collecting VAT for lower invoiced values to be a total money looser.

What this means to a small business like mine is that it is simply not worth having sales of less than $ 150 USD (or say $ 180 USD including shipping) to the UK anymore. Sales exceeding £135 in value will be fine as the VAT will continue to be collected in the UK from the purchasers before delivery.

With this in mind I'll sadly have to not accept orders with a total invoice value under $ 180.00 to the UK. Presently this is the only country in the developed world (that I ship BSA parts to) that expects foreigners to help administer domestic tax collections, in this case in the UK.

Peter


check out: www.bsaunitsingles.com
2500 BSA part numbers with inventory in stock just for the unit singles!
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Originally Posted by Peter Quick
Presently this is the only country in the developed world (that I ship BSA parts to) that expects foreigners to help administer domestic tax collections, in this case in the UK.
Yes, this new UK law is ridiculous and clearly thought up by a total f**kwit

John

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Joined: Mar 2019
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This seems like minor carping considering these new rules will hasten the return of the farthing and with it the Empire.


1970 T120R - 'Anton'
1970 Commando - 'Bruno'
1967 T120R - 'Caesar'
1968 Lightning - 'Dora'
1 member likes this: gavin eisler
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