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Hi Splash, There is no happy medium. Proper operation friction point, lever feel is a product of correct assembly & correct parts.

Going back to basics.

Not too much wear in spider, cush hub & retlated parts.

The 1.400 nominal thickness determines spring nut position.

Correct 650 springs set to depth by the calculation.

Correct push rod adjustment. 1/2-5/8 turn. With free play in cable.

Free play in cable. If you have wrong lever extra cable free play can compensate.

Suppose lever is correct. If all the other items are correct, the lever will feel right. The friction point will feel right. It will not slip & it will release properly as expected.

You cannot cheat physics. The more from correct any of the above is, the worse clutch will work.

Did you follow Raber’s video exactly?

If you followed Rabers video exactly & friction point is too far out, the spring nuts need to be deeper. Or springs are too weak. The 1.400” calculation is not a myth. It really works. Correct springs are imperative. Old springs are way better than incorrect new springs.

I know you had wear in spider. I’d consider using the calculation then 1 turn deeper to compensate.

If spring coil #s , wire diameter & overall length are correct the springs will be correct.

If springs are too strong or nuts adjusted too deep friction point will be too close to grip. Again... this is with all good parts & perfect rod & cable adjustment.

If your adjustments are not perfect the lever feel & friction point will reflect that.

If rod has clearance, lever has free play & clutch slips, the problem is in clutch. Spring tension is too light and/or wear in other parts.

So, following Raber exactly what does clutch do? We’ll go from there.
Don

1973 Tiger 750


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Hi,
Originally Posted by splash
[quote=TR7RVMan]I think I over corrected. Clutch is way up too high on the lever.
as soon as I pull on the lever it opens the basket almost as if the basket is not closing all the way when I really goose it.
confused What do you mean by, "really goose it"?

The procedure is detailed in the 1970 650 Owner's Handbook, page 18, "To adjust the clutch operating mechanism".

Did you follow my suggestion to adjust the clutch screw holding the screwdriver only between a thumb and forefinger? If the driver is held with more fingers, ime it isn't always easy to detect when the screw starts to lift the pressure plate; if the screw has started to lift the pressure plate, the1/2-turn anti-clockwise won't be accurate.

When adjusting the cable at the handlebar lever, how are you measuring the "approximately 1/8 in. free movement in the cable" detailed in the handbook? Fwiw, I measure by pressing on the lever with the end of one finger then measuring the gap between the lever and the pivot casting - one finger pressing on the lever will detect when the cable "free movement" is taken up as much greater pressure is required to actually lift the clutch pressure plate ("open the basket").

Hth.

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It's hard to figure how well that home made clutch cable is doing it's job. You will save yourself a lot of grief and frustration by fitting a correct cable. It will not be cheap but at least you will know that is not part of the problem. There are what, 4 or 5 adjustment on the clutch. Each has to be pretty much perfect. Until you have all the correct parts and know they are all working correctly you are just beating your head against the wall.
Good luck.


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Originally Posted by desco
It's hard to figure how well that home made clutch cable is doing it's job. You will save yourself a lot of grief and frustration by fitting a correct cable. It will not be cheap but at least you will know that is not part of the problem. There are what, 4 or 5 adjustment on the clutch. Each has to be pretty much perfect. Until you have all the correct parts and know they are all working correctly you are just beating your head against the wall.
Good luck.

Some of these parts shops are way too proud IMHO. I'd rather buy stainless steel solder and mold my own ball at the end of this cable than buy some marked up 900% profit cable that's just might leave me on the side of the road somewhere again. Can't and won't talk me into it bud.


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Originally Posted by kevin
here's the american set. stanley, 10-piece. US$145, set of 10

https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Prot...et+wrench&qid=1608405746&sr=8-11

i don't know why these things are so expensive.

I don't get how this sort of wrench helps - it doesn't look like you can put a screwdriver through the socket.
Originally Posted by L.A.B.
A less expensive 9/16" deep offset ring* spanner fits my T140 and would be the same for a 650 I'd have thought.
*(US = 'box-end' wrench)

This I get! Also, a socket with an external hex shape at the back end. Then you don't mar the outside of the socket with a Vise-Grip.


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I guess a pass-through ratchet would work as well.
pass thru


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Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
I guess a pass-through ratchet would work as well.
pass thru

Hmm, that's a new one on me!

Leafing back through, I just noticed Dmadigan's reply, where he suggested pulling in the clutch lever to load the screw so it doesn't turn as you tighten the lock nut - kind of makes all the "special tool" talk superfluous!


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Hi Mark,
Originally Posted by Mark Z
I don't get how this sort of wrench helps - it doesn't look like you can put a screwdriver through the socket.
That's exactly how it works - not visible in the solitary Amazon image is the outside of the curve is a hole - wrench on the locknut hex., screwdriver through the hole in the wrench curve to the adjuster screw, hold screw with screwdriver, tighten (or loosen) locknut with wrench. thumbsup

From the linked Amazon webpage:-
Quote
Angle and through-hole design helps accommodate threaded rods or a bar for extra leverage,
Just an aside but, when I started touring abroad in the early 1980's, these hollow hex. wrenches were then common particularly in French workshops.

Hth.

Regards,

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I always have trouble feeling the point at which the screw makes contact with the push rod. What I do is reach across to feel the lever in the gearbox case to see when it won't move. Back the screw off until I can feel movement at the lever. Then I put the screwdriver in through a socket and hold while I finger tighten the lock nut. Back off the screw a bit and tighten the nut. Check for free play at the lever in the gearbox cover.
Great tip about tightening the nut with the clutch deployed, thanks Dave!


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Turning the screwdriver with thumb & fingertip is ideal when that's possible, but often the threads are much too stiff to allow this. It ought to be easy enough to just watch the pressure plate for signs of lifting, though this may be difficult to see with the chaincase on. It's a job better done with the chaincase off, if that's the case. Once the pushrod is set up properly it shouldn't need thinking about for many thousands of miles, so worth putting a bit of effort into getting it right.


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Don't you guys have feeling your fingers? ,LOL......Geez,you all sound like government workers. grin


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
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Hi All, The rod adjustment changes rapidly as plates wear or bed in if new.

I’ve observed a large factor in premature clutch wear is lack of rod clearance. I recommend checking at every oil change. That’s shout every 1500 miles. Now that we have the hang of it, takes 3 minutes in real life.

The #1 problem during adjustment is lack of cable free play!!! This cannot be overstated. With the screw ran in tight, reach up & verify the lever still has plenty of play.

The lack play with screw ran in is why owners get the clicking.

Also if cable is gummy or stiff, not sliding freely it’s hard to accurately feel the free play.

At the same time, zero rod clearance causes clutch wear, it can cause rod to spin against pressure pad in cam, causing great heat. This ruins the rod bushing in main shaft as well as rod + pressure pad & tip of adjuster screws. We’ve seen this happen on this group a few times already.

So this is not set & forget. It’s routine maintenance.
Don


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Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
Don't you guys have feeling your fingers? ,LOL......Geez,you all sound like government workers. grin

Like I said, with some pressure plates (those fancy looking alloy ones are often like this), the threads are too tight to give any 'feel' for when the screw contacts the rod. Only way to do it in that case is by sight.

Don is right of course - new friction plates can wear down fairly quickly. But once initial bedding-in is out of the way, and if you can find neutral whenever you want and don;t make a habit of keeping the bike in gear with the clutch pulled in, there should be very little wear, certainly between oil changes.


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Originally Posted by Tigernuts
Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
Don't you guys have feeling your fingers? ,LOL......Geez,you all sound like government workers. grin

Like I said, with some pressure plates (those fancy looking alloy ones are often like this), the threads are too tight to give any 'feel' for when the screw contacts the rod. Only way to do it in that case is by sight.

Don is right of course - new friction plates can wear down fairly quickly. But once initial bedding-in is out of the way, and if you can find neutral whenever you want and don;t make a habit of keeping the bike in gear with the clutch pulled in, there should be very little wear, certainly between oil changes.
Since you work on bikes as a hobbyst, your eye sight should be able to detect the slightest lift...Or a slim screwdriver placed in the inspection hole while you adjust the screw...You can feel the lift...


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
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