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#833807 12/19/20 7:14 am
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splash Offline OP
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How far should this lever travel? Something just ain’t right. This is the bottom of travel in picture for mine and it doesn’t travel much further up from here. The pull on the clutch handle seems much shorter than I can remember. If I go too tight with the adjustment it goes about half way and makes this click/pop sound again as it suddenly losses tension but does not come loose at the bottom end by gear box as it feels like it did at the top of the clutch handle. I been fighting this issue for some time now off and on. I just don’t understand. Is a part worn out in the mechanism assembly in picture causing this lever not to go down all the way? If I loose cable enough I can easily pull it down with a screwdriver blade in the inspection hole, sloppy. I seem to remember at one time this lever in picture was about half way of the inspection hole. See picture below.

https://ibb.co/7jgCxdq

Last edited by splash; 12/19/20 7:21 am.

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My bike did the popping thing and it is cured by a full clutch pushrod adjustment. This is the procedure where you slacken the handlebar adjustment right off and then do the clutch pressure plate adjustment.

My 1967 bike also suffered from a lack of clutch cable travel. The clutch dragged really badly. In my case it was the cable nipple at the gearbox end getting caught on the abutment that screws into the top of the outer gearbox cover. I think that the cable nipple position is lower down on your bike so this might not be able to happen.

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Yes the mechanism may well be worn. Replacement is the cure.
BUT, have you followed the correct installation procedure? You need to slacken off the cable completely, then go to the primary side and remove the inspection cover. Release the 9/16" locknut and back it out a bit. Now screw the adjuster in until you feel it touching the pushrod. Back the screw out half a turn and set the locknut. Take up the slack in the cable and all should be well.
That's a strange looking cable though. I use Venhill Featherlight cables, they work great.

If that doesn't work, ask Bill "Hawaiian Tiger" if you can contact him. He's a good guy and I miss him.

SR

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Originally Posted by splash
If I go too tight with the adjustment it goes about half way and makes this click/pop sound again as it suddenly losses tension but does not come loose at the bottom end by gear box as it feels like it did at the top of the clutch handle.

The click at the end of the lever travel is typical of an incorrectly adjusted pushrod as dave jones says.



The cable 'nipple' in your photo is a bodge-up (crimped wire cable ferrule).
[Linked Image from i.ebayimg.com]

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Thanks for the Tech Tips link L.A.B..

The fix is straightforward (especially if you have that cool socket).
Out of curiosity, I take it the clicking sound is the lifter skipping back a dimple?


1970 T120R - 'Anton'
1970 Commando - 'Bruno'
1967 T120R - 'Caesar'
1968 Lightning - 'Dora'
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Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
Out of curiosity, I take it the clicking sound is the lifter skipping back a dimple?

If the pushrod is under adjusted then the cable has to be over adjusted to compensate which advances the 'at rest' position of the lifter arm (and looks as if it is in the photo) the balls, therefore, are already partially climbing the ramps before the lifter mechanism begins to operate so the balls reach the ends of the ramps probably causing them to jump back or skid before the lifter arm stops rotating and I believe that is what causes the clicking sound.

Last edited by L.A.B.; 12/19/20 2:25 pm.
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Fits with the comment "probably got some new plates in it".


1970 T120R - 'Anton'
1970 Commando - 'Bruno'
1967 T120R - 'Caesar'
1968 Lightning - 'Dora'
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Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
The fix is straightforward (especially if you have that cool socket).

hugh, sears used to sell those in a set-- hollow head socket wrenches. i foolishly never bought them when craftsman was still around in quality. they are hard to locate these days and generally expensive, but i found a set of five for US$72

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

https://www.misterworker.com/en-us/usag/set-of-5-hollow-offset-socket-wrenches-291-n-se5/9590.html

i've always used a socket held in a pair of vise grips for the same purpose, but its a clumsy bodge.


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Cool. Thanks Kevin.
Hey. Clumsy bodge = SOP in my garage.


1970 T120R - 'Anton'
1970 Commando - 'Bruno'
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1968 Lightning - 'Dora'
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Originally Posted by kevin
Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
The fix is straightforward (especially if you have that cool socket).

hugh, sears used to sell those in a set-- hollow head socket wrenches. i foolishly never bought them when craftsman was still around in quality. they are hard to locate these days and generally expensive, but i found a set of five for US$72

i've always used a socket held in a pair of vise grips for the same purpose, but its a clumsy bodge.
Nice tool I suppose but I never used anything but a 9/16" socket and a screwdriver. Or a spanner if the primary cover is off.
Once I have the adjustment I spin the socket and nut in with my fingers while holding the screwdriver. Then I install the T-handle and simply nip it up.

SR

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Originally Posted by kevin
hugh, sears used to sell those in a set-- hollow head socket wrenches. i foolishly never bought them when craftsman was still around in quality. they are hard to locate these days and generally expensive, but i found a set of five for US$72

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

https://www.misterworker.com/en-us/usag/set-of-5-hollow-offset-socket-wrenches-291-n-se5/9590.html

That's a metric set, none of which are close to 9/16".

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Facom-75...3828232?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

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Wish I could get a hold of Hawaiian tiger. Here was the only way I had contact with him. I had his return address on a box he sent me with Wit sockets inside but tossed it thinking if I needed to send him something I could just ask for it. He is an over the top nice guy like that. Someone must have really got under his skin.

Fellas, thanks for all the helpful tips and a much better understanding now. I’ll have to use the socket in vice grip method. Last time I took the primary cover off.


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here's the american set. stanley, 10-piece. US$145, set of 10

https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Prot...et+wrench&qid=1608405746&sr=8-11

i don't know why these things are so expensive.


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Oh, and about the different look at bottom end cable... ball popped off on me one ride months ago. I order new cable. Waited a week to come in. Lasted a month or two and wham, same f’n thing. I was hot about it! A friend had a wonderful suggestion to go buy a stainless steel cable from one of these deep sea fishing supply stores down by the harbor and they have crimps that hold some pretty heavy f’ing fish. I was SOLD! Under $10 investment working awesome. Same thing at the top of the handle as well.


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splash Offline OP
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Thanks Kevin but I’ll save the money... that is ridiculous in my humble opinion.


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well, that's the reason i still use the socket and the vise grips.


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A less expensive 9/16" deep offset ring* spanner fits my T140 and would be the same for a 650 I'd have thought.
*(US = 'box-end' wrench)

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Last edited by L.A.B.; 12/19/20 8:23 pm.
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Hi Splash, A few thoughts. I have great interest in clutch cables & durability.

First, exactly what brand of clutch cable were you using prior?

The strength of the cable wire is seldom a problem, but the end attachments can vary greatly on how easily they pull off.

Your home made cable may look odd, but could prove durable. Time will tell. In every case the cable will need lube. I'd use motor oil. It tends to work well * allows free return of cable & the lever which is important.

It looks like your lever did not have enough free play during clutch adjustment. That always leads to the click. Click happens when balls run onto the flat part of the cam, out of the dimple. That never happens with proper adjustment. But if it does, few things can happen. First you run out of effective clutch release, depending on how far out the rod adjustment was. Next, the ball can set on top of flat & not allow the lever to return. In this case you have to use a screwdriver or the like & push the lever down through the trans fill hole. The cam has a washer & cotter pin that retains the 2 halves together. This can be bent or compromised. In many cases the cam runs out of proper travel & doesn't want to rotate further. This puts great strain on cable.

Cam wear generally consists of wear in the center hole where retainer & return spring are. The lost motion allows sideways movement of lever rather than forcing lever to rotate cam. I've only seen this a few times. If all adjustments & lever fulcrum distance, cable etc are all perfect, then worn cam is suspect. I doubt your cam is worn. I've covered 36k miles on my bike & cam still works perfectly. But keep that in mind if all else is good.

Also the rod length & adjuster screw length are very important. If adjuster screw sticks out too far it will hit the plug in primary cover. You can see wear mark on inside of plug & this can be tested with grease as well. Put grease on end of adjuster screw head. Screw in plug. Pull lever. Check for grease transfer. You want a good .020" or more wiggle room to allow for expansion etc. This is very common with aftermarket rods. Shorten slotted end of screw as needed & re slot.

Adjust rod as explained in Rabers video. Check the end of screw clearance as above.

Regarding the special tool Rabers uses, I've adjusted hundreds of clutches without it. I own the tool now & it works good, but it's a luxury tool for sure. The point is to get the rod clearance right no matter what tool you use.

On an aside is the crimp on your stainless cable steel? Should cable break can you fish end out with magnet? It falls into cover where the old speedo drive was. Some leave it there. I don't. I fish it out.

Again, please respond on your prior cable brand. Thank you!
Don


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I use a cranked ring spanner as per LAB, but the offset isn't as deep, so the process is awkward. I've also used a box spanner. Would be useful to be able to check the clearance after tightening.

Can't be that difficult to find a Brit bike mechanic on a particular Hawaiian Island. I'm sure Bill mentioned his home island on here.

Edit: Maui, it's in his posting profile.

Last edited by Dibnah; 12/20/20 8:22 am.
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Hi,
Originally Posted by splash
I’ll have to use the socket in vice grip method.
Even that isn't necessary.

If you go for a "box end wrench", be aware different makes have different o.d. around the ring and different angles between ring and handle, some of the latter scrape the chaincase plug thread. Amhikt. eek Or here's the method I used for a long time ...:-

When turning adjuster screw clockwise to find end of pushrod, hold the screwdriver only between thumb and forefinger. Then, once the adjuster screw's up against the pushrod you won't be able to turn it any further. thumbsup

The recommended 1/2-turn anti-clockwise to leave some clearance between screw and pushrod isn't precision engineering, approximate will do ...

Fit the screw locknut up to the pressure plate, check 1/2-turn clearance is still present; absent box end wrench or similar, note adjuster screw slot position then tighten nut with socket and standard ratchet, T-handle, whatever.

Withdraw socket and observe adjuster screw slot position; did it move when you tightened the locknut? If it did, loosen the locknut again, turn the adjuster screw anti-clockwise a little more than before and tighten the locknut again. Observe adjuster screw slot position; is it now in about the right position to give about the 1/2-turn clearance? If yes, thumbsup move on to adjusting cable.

Btw, assuming your bike has the standard '70 chromed clutch lever clamped around the left handlebar, be aware the distance between the centre of the pivot and the centre of the cable nipple should be 7/8". There are some pattern levers with greater than 1" centres, these over-rotate the "Clutch lever" and balls in the gearbox case, by pulling too much cable, potentially leading to the balls dropping out of the clutch withdrawal mechanism. frown

Hth.

Regards,

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After you have positioned the adjuster screw, if you pull the clutch lever to load the screw you can tighten the nut without the screw turning.

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splash Offline OP
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Hey Don, I don’t recall the brand name of the cable. I unwrapped it and threw the wrapper away. Sorry man.


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Hi Splash, Thanks for reply. No problem.

How does your clutch work after going over rod & lever adjustments?
Don


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Quote
hugh, sears used to sell those in a set-- hollow head socket wrenches. i foolishly never bought them when craftsman was still around in quality. they are hard to locate these days and generally expensive, but i found a set of five for US$72

McMaster-Carr sells them in both inch and metric:
https://www.mcmaster.com/wrenches/socket-wrenches/?SrchEntryWebPart_InpBox=wrench


-Tony

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Originally Posted by TR7RVMan
Hi Splash,
How does your clutch work after going over rod & lever adjustments?
Don

I think I over corrected. Clutch is way up too high on the lever. In other words, as soon as I pull on the lever it opens the basket almost as if the basket is not closing all the way when I really goose it. The first small amount of lever travel does it all and if I pull all the way to handle bar grip there is no difference. Clutch engage and disengage is way too far at the beginning of the lever. Should I adjust and second guess myself on the pushrod nut or should I adjust at the top cable tension by lever?

I also noticed the more the nut is adjusted (out?) the more the kick start slips. Maybe it is (in?) which seems to make more sense as it is forcing the basket open.

I'm trying to find the happy medium smile

Last edited by splash; 12/22/20 6:01 am.

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